Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

UFO 911

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Around midnight on December 14th, 1994 people in Trumbull County, Ohio began calling 911 to report a strange low flying craft that was lighting up their homes and moving silently through the treetops. 

We have the actual recordings of these 911 calls and you will hear the people in dispatch go from joking about there being something in the water, to basically freaking out when the craft powers down a police cruiser they sent to investigate.
We are joined again by Mr. Thomas Wertman President of the Ohio Mutual UFO Network, listen as he takes us through the dispatch recordings and the eerie events that followed.   

Hot Stuff prepared for an alien star watch coming to your ear. You have the tapes and image. That would be base and see if they have any report of an area. That's right, we do have the n one one tapes and we're going to be playing them for you tonight. What's even better than that is it we're going to be joined once again by Mr Thomas Wortman, the president of Ohio move on, which is the mutual UFONE network's International UF investigation group. He's in charge of all the investigations that happen here in Ohio. Yeah, this is such a good interview. It's just fun listening to him tell stories and he's got one of those great deep, like George nor kind of coast to coast radio voices, so he's just fun to listen to. Yeah, and you know what we're talking about tonight and I cannot wait to get in to it because, Dan, this is one of the most credible ufo sightings that is ever happened and it happened right over here, right above us in the Buckeye state. We're going to be discussing the one thousand nine hundred and ninety four mass ufo sighting that took place in trumble county, Ohio, and it has everything that you'd want for a credible ufo encounter. You Got Fifteen police officers that have witnessed this ufo, plus we have the local one one recordings and you'll hear a bunch of different civilians calling in reports. You're going to hear the news media and we're going to be cutting that up and playing it for you as Thomas Warman takes us through it, when it explains it in a way that only he can. You know what I mean, like nobody knows more about this stuff than he does, and I think that we put together a really cool show for you tonight. You know, I want you to have this frame of reference now when you listen to this, think about where we're at society wise now, where we have our own government telling us that for years they'd been lying to us and saying that what people were seeing wasn't there, wasn't real, but now all of a sudden, Dan we're talking about UFOS, that they're real. Thing, right, right, and I was going to say, if you're wondering why we hearing about one of the most credible ufo sightings of all time, in our area with all these police officers. If you're wondering why you never heard about it, it's because it was basically covered up, and the way we even know about it is a great story that Tom will tell you. Yeah, this is a wild story. You've had a lot of researchers out there for years of look into different UFO related events and there is a gentleman in Ohio named letter Stringfield who was an excellent researcher and he's his time frame goes back like Nineteen S S. He did a number of books on the subject, but his favorite thing is going after like cracious. He loved to look into those and he had he was putting out a series of articles base like the status of Ufos, status like Craci retrievals, etc. And he mentioned a case in Ohio that was in liberty, Ohio, which is like the southern portion down closer to like Wright Patterson Air Force Base. He put the story out about a reported crash down here. Well, Kenny Young, who lived in Cincinnati, was really interested in ufos. He started reading over this stuff and he got interested in this story. One of the stories down there...

...in that area. Now I was looking that up this afternoon, just for curiosity and the closest want to can identify with. Happened about one thousand nine hundred and seventy seven down in that region and it was about a reported creation which the military is actually called in. According to what I found in string fields already cold, the military was called in. The rumor was some military personnel were injured and killed and then there were bodies and stuff recovered and taken back to Right Patterson. Well, Kenny young was really curious about, you know, this case like this down to that region and he started researching it. So he said, okay, if it happened in liberty, let's call up liberty and the police department find out one on because reportedly the chief of police was involved with this. So you got a picture here, time terms like roughly right, right around one thousand nineteen, nineteen, Ninety two, ninety three in or some place. He Calls Up, actually take it back as lagger than it had to be, like mid the late s. He calls up liberty, or a cause of directory assistance I should say, and says hey, I'm to be connected the Liberty Police Department, because, I mean think about back in the s we didn't have Google and all that stuff right. So he goes to directory assistants says Connecting Liberty Police Department. He gets in touch with dispatch and he says, I'd like to talk to you about the UFO event that happened, you know, at liberty and they said, Oh, yeah, we know the event and half a couple years ago. Well, things didn't quite seem right, but he went and just rolled with with it and spatcher told him about the events. What was interesting with it is the events that she was talking about didn't aligned with what he was looking for many time. Tam I'm sure didn't either. So he's probably like wait, what yeah, and after he said it took him two weeks of researching this, going through it and he says just doesn't seem like it's the right case at all. And then he finds out that the liberty that they connected him with directory assistants was Liberty Township, which is in the north east part of Ohio, by Youngstown, and he was looking for liberty police purple, which is the opposite quarter of the state, the southwest corner. So he just rolled with and said Hey, this case actually seems better. Maybe then what I'm looking at because they were talking about ufos being seen. Actually over a couple different nights in the liberty area where please cruisers are involved, you had up to like fourteen police officers that reportedly observed things. Of the people already here uflan called our right locate anything. They're like, you know, people are serious. Are At that. Now I'm like, well, it's going to be a winner Milan or something, and I don't want to win blandy. You know. Well, the breathing in Long Green. Well now the media said is green and blue lights. I had a man who said it. He said huge and it doesn't make any noise, and I said well, I said, could it be like a weatherloe? He doesn't know because these lights are incredibly light and he is in this things, he gets in. This thing's just covering, it's not moving, and I said, well, maybe it's a private plane or something. This thing, whatever it was, I mean literally little you could stand because you are underneath it. You could see, if you're like day, like a red lights. Why Log did I do? This is coming back up bright and everybody, the brothers going to be calling them row and I'm like, I wanted it and I saw it. Always know I didn't like he saw it. I...

...don't be calling that tape. We're are gonna get her asses shuff. You Watch her government will come on here and no, okay, we're going old little green, then Santa Claus Flying Christmas tree, all this shit on the channel were rocket as either. Maybe so. I don't know if it was the UFOS log you know, but I mean he saw. Why did you think it was? What did you really think it was? I don't know. I I came across with whatever it is. Big You play you too around. I said, he's okay, I'm not joking. It didn't sound like you were. You were laughing and then all the sudden you weren't laughing and I oh, maybe he's trying to make me like. I think there's related ut side there, and I was like, oh no, I would go back fall the light. I saw large rest light one second. How guy come a UFOS for x radio was talking to me all you let go. Yeah, I guess we had a can. But in Liberty Township they had been witnessing multiple nights of some kind of unexplained aerial activity. Well, that's what came up, because what he did is he got put this report on his own website, get a website he ran and he wrote the report up about what he got from dispatch. He posted out there and he says, next thing you know, he gets this letter. The says hey, you know, we've been doing some follow up. The individual said that they were actually with the nine one call center in the Youngstown area. They said that they saw the report online of his. They went back and they said, you know, anybody remember this ufo thing back at such and such a time frame? And they started pooling all their minds together and they started going through their materials and they found the one one tapes from those given nights. Well, he gets later on another note that says hey, she keep checking your mailbox as like what, just keep checking your mailbox. Will this box arise? Opens a box of it's got tapes in it and there's a newspaper in there. The newspaper? What somebody at the one is taking a newspaper and cut all the letters out like a ransom milk and they wrote a message and put in it. And I guess that's what they said that they did at this one call center, probably out of board that there are times that they had extra time at her hands and when he found these interesting cases, they would create their own like little pony headlines to go along with the tapes. So they cut this out and basically what the note said is or director getting ready for hot stuff. Be Prepared for an Alien Star Watch coming to your area. It went along a little bit farther than that, but it said you have the one tapes in the box where the one takes from that event. Now when he the only way he can kind of held a date, because that would ly two tapes were not marked. From what he said, he could tell the date by the newspaper articles inside, which showed his like December fourteen to ninety four. So that's when he kind of created you know that the date that he's at. This happened, but there's been questions regarding that date as far as accuracy. But when you start going through tapes, it really gets interesting because you see how the tone of a police department changes as more and more reports her coming in over a time frame, I swear to God, or called in on an identified object. Every liberty for call for common identified flying objects about. They go from basically being joking this...

...guy with money and flowing to speak. It gets likely down a pot there making fun of stuff, their pointing to see, to wait, we got to figure out how to explain this away now, you know, because we don't have an explanation. We got to come up some you know, some way to kind of like distract everybody from this whole story. You know, hope it goes away. You could hear that at one point, I think the dispatcher says that the FAA guy gave her some numbers to call if you want to report a Ufo, and she's like, I'm not calling. Yeah, yeah, her name was. Actually, he was great. Oh, she was fantastic if I was running a police paper, but I would have want her on this match because for sure she handled it so incredible and use funny too. Oh she was. I mean because when you play the tapes, then the tapes that, by the way, to point this out, is they weren't over like a three hour time frame. They're actually like over a whole night and we understand it, they're actually potentially combination to different days and when you go through and you cut out all the portions of the in between and you start pulling everything together, now you eventually works down to maybe about two three hours time frame. Hold of the cheer. These reports coming in. But you got the reports coming in and it starts out by like you got this Patcher and she's just being kind of like nonchalant, you know. Phone call comes and here's you can tell. Like an elderly gentleman says hey, I'm out here on Sampson drive, and Sampson drives north of young'stown area, and he goes yeah, I'm looking outside. He says, I see this green light that's really bright. It looks almost like the exhaust that yet and he says it's loaded the ground and she goes okay, you know, okay, okay, well, we'll look into it. You're kind of like pushing away, saying Oh, yes, sure, what you've been drinking a night buddy? You know exactly type of thing. Well, the next thing you know you've got like four different phone calls coming along with a local TV station, and I take United Point by act, like you called in of Deagle to the sky. I know, I'll check about Hampton drive. He did if anything knowledge. We've had four different calls down in this particular when came over Hampton different one of this guy. That's all we have in the sky the area. King not taking this guy copy at well, the phone call start coming in and she reaches out to her cap and she doesn't mention it call him captain, but she calls him by name and she goes, you know, we just got four calls in here about the ufo out on Sampson driving there, all in the same area. And she goes, you got me to call you air traffic control on this, because no, no, I'm kind of got check it out myself, you know, and she goes, you know, maybe he goes, maybe spot came to the region. He starts making a joke him self. He says maybe spock is out there, and she goes, well, they couldn't be shoot the New Star Trek movie around here someplace. They're all making jokes about this whole thing. Well, you can kind of see the situation that veloping, because the...

...phone call start coming in. The next thing you know, here comes reporter calling in. Said this batch from channel thirty three. Channel Three three is local TV station. And what's the Moor? The police traffic on a scanner. This is gonna how really dumb. I hear Liberty Police are in an area that I got to call about a little bit ago. A woman called a claims he called something. You call me. Okay, I hear there out there and they've got another call. We finally got one somewhere to put. The woman told me was on Sampson drive, like midway in the block. There's a vacant lot or something of peace. Let's doctor look like dispetter. So they heard these calls, come into the Police Department and I'm sending officers out the response and I just patch we help you. Maybe thirty three, I think. See how he had got one of your really this woman was almost he saw something. He told me they had to the area was like Sampson drives, the Bacon field, midway three of the block. They're telling me this kill, but I mean it's I mean it's probably some a weather balloon or something. They mean they're checking the area, but I really need you a phone call. They're getting at it. I don't know what it was, but the hell did they come to the liberty for? There's now I tell you, the light the liberty come on there for they're doing a sequel. What's that new? Star check movie star, so Louis Green, no noise, no noise. It was low flying and you took off and I'll come on, they have noise there. It's drive up to that extension. Now they are you flying. It's came down and just zooped over it with ad a glowing. We got four COBB IT laugh, guys, that would a fighter plane. They you tell me that. Look I would do. I like a big, big new story on the water in liberty and in fact kind of people, because these people are clearly up day. But I appreciate the tip. I'll whether though, with a more on it. I just ID batch the Glina in my life. It would lay in here upduck some people and I would be in trouble behind his patching. I would interesting because I heard the way to be fat it and I said he's trying real hard not to. I'm working with the biggest jokers on move on the force tonight. So it's a real hard and idea. Like if we do win in new us, I swear I will call you personally. We'll get you an exclusive. Okay. Well, this reporter says, Hey, I just had a woman called in. She was just routing tears and she said she saw you afo out Samson drive, really really and they start making jokes about it and she goes. You know, yeah, she goes to woman's reporting like a green light. This patches. Yeah, we're checking now, we're looking at it, and she goes. And then she makes us big joke, because who want to come to liberty, O Higher Liberty Anyway, because she goes, there's no intelligent life here in liberty and this is this patch around maybe the water. She goes here. We got some pretty bad water around her. Maybe people are you get infected by the water? Well, they they say that, hey, no, not. This person reported an object. And then you get more phone calls coming. We're some reported seeing an object fifty feet off the ground traveling down the street and a guy put a large object a lot like report campton drive. And also we've been advised by color Q, The media media form, that to go wading the blue great object covering no noise. It was in the area, to have an extension that the extension of can. Now there's reportedly even an elderly gentleman out there walking, you know, down the street, had a dog...

...out and he said the object was moving above a house. Well, different ones are saying maybe it's stars. And, by the way, I went back and I've got astronomy software. They can duplicate sky fires going back who knows how far. And I put myself in that area in Youngstown on the launch to the latitch cortus and good when went back in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four, and you could see like serious blow in the sky on one side and then Vega blow in the skyline on another side. And maybe some of the stuff they were seeing seeing could be explained to way. Is that? Maybe out of a little hysteria. But when he had somebody saying, Hey, this thing was moving above us. Yeah, it was going down the street, was coming towards us, describing it being fifty feet above the ground, I mean in changing colors too. Yeah, fifty feet above the ground wall. Then they called up this match. Heard this match calls up, I should say air traffic control. You get the guys from air traffic control, not if you ever heard those air traffic control people online before, but they got this very like almost like a monotone voice. Yes, this is ran. Somebody catch a plate. The Parts Ohio were reported from flying object in our jurisdiction, in our area, but basically could out an attenionary. I could not give you any kind of traffic direction that would help you know that area. Do you know anything? It should be in our air space this time and close to the ground. And the guy comes on the phone and she goes, I'm Liberty Police Department and we're checking to see us, you know, if there's anybody reporting, you know, like anything unusual sky out here, and the guy goes, goes, I just looked them over at my radar at Herne says we've got nothing for sixty miles and says you have nothing and she goes shit, it's that nature. Or how do I explain this shything else account? Five calls and on this something fling in our area and it's slow to the ground. Would you be able to monitor, like assess or something with a light on it? Wow, the radar right are where Okayer, and tell them something and I don't want to say you couldn't find anything. Is there any like clause? I might ease and it like you like a personal aircraft or something like bes the night or something you just could be as helicopter draft hanging down a kind of requirements to the airport. Okay. So you have never any gus with helicopters because like that Alico. I'm buying this a hundred percent. But if you were, there's location anywhere. You're off. So we are close to a hospital, but the location is away from it. Said slowly. They said it was to the ground. It would be proximate five miles away from us. So we're closer to that in a town is closer to flight out towards they am a line by an air basic area, and that's what I thought. Maybe it was related to. Yeah, we only had okay, just go out here, nor bom up. Nothing going on here. Okay, I am going to do advise you this. You could take an file key in your garbage can if you want to. We've got account of this. So what second corning? Okay, I've got forty six cal on second okay, at this time I've had forty six calves come in about a lit object. Well, at all deck, Quick Green Lights covering above theory of pants and drive and Fifth Avenue. The object put slow to the grounds, did not make any noise, covered there for some time and it continue moving down benefit extension...

...flowed, it was out. He got something he thought was moread somebody described it in the end of a fighter pilot plane. I don't know what the hell kind of flying to continue in their drying care city, but this is what I would advise them. So I wanted to call. Don't we have a number numbers things like that, if you like I said, I don't know out there and we don't really do with information. Okay, I just I thought I popped along in case somebody was maybe flying without permission and, you know, night flying or something like that and know what was going on. But as long as I've done my job so long, and I don't want to with a crack pipe, but that's what we've got in so far from thank you. So let me ask you this. With a helicopter show up on radar or anything that didn't log a flight plan and still be visible on the radar to the tower? Right? Yes, as long as it's not too well, that was actually one of the questions that she asked. A TC she goes. Well, goodness what, a helicopter not show up? Was Too low, because I could that's a possibility. She was basically that works for me. So she was looking for a way out and you could see it. Then happens all over the country. Yeah, and I taken I can monitor flight traffic and transponders because I've got a actually I've got intent up on my roof where I've got a receiver that they can pick up the transponders of aircraft in the area. Really Yeah, but I can also, I'm looked into a network. I can pick up stuff, you know, across the country and even the world for that matter, if I wanted so. Like when you see an airliner go down, I can take and follow that airline and pick up words, transponder and stuff. Was a right now I'm working some of the data for one of the reports that they've been talking about on the local news about the drones off the California coast back in two thousand and nineteen. I'm pulling up the archival air traffic in that region. You do. Everything that you're into is fascinating and it's cool that you have the technology and that you're willing to put in the kind of man hours that that requires. Yeah, and it it's just being like the Geek really, because that's what I guess I've been all these years and I have probably fitted like Big Bang theory for all I know. You know it. Get Peek. Well, I appreciate the way your mind works and I just want to jump back to the the trouble county of fo one of the things that you said on your podcast, and it's a really good point that hadn't occurred to me that you said it, was that how could the guy in the tower not be seeing anything when there's reports from the airport of people seeing something? That's right. So does that make you skeptical of the story? Well, the thing is is the airport really wasn't that far from the region were all this was happening at. Liberty is actually fairly close, and the one airport out there in Youngstown, they call it Vien a center. That's where the Tower was at. He said he didn't see anything from the towering him self, but then again maybe as something is low enough to be around, he may not write. I mean if it's fifty feet above the ground you might not be. I'm yeah, well, we're really gets interesting at as you mentioned earlier, the name of Toby Berrero in the tapes. When you play it, they'll mention his name a few times. But when I went back and really listen to tape myself, there's a point that popped up which was really interesting. You hear in this case a cruiser being sent out to...

Samson drive. Well, the guys. You hear that. The officer call back in and he says, you know, to day these witnesses give addresses. No. Well, next time we you know. Would you please get an address from these witnesses? It would really help. Oh yeah, we can do that any more. Call then about the next clip that comes in. The officer goes, I need a few minutes here to get my thoughts back together. And they start and not him, but this batcher starts laughing about it, making jokes. She doesn't know what just happened. Well, Toby Morero was the one who is sent out the Sampson drive, and that there's appears to me maybe some inaccuracies between what you'd see on some of the TV shows involving the same case. But Toby Morero went out to that street, Sampson Drive, Dad. It had a reporter camp and drive. It runs nor sell by vacuum. Going out there myself in that region because I used to work on that area and at that time in the s you had housing roughly bought, maybe a hundred feet from the road, something like that, in a fair distance from the road back to the houses, and it was nice, like a nice suburban neighborhood that was just pretty much on the edge of trying to grow. You had some vacant fields in there. He's driving down the road but all of a suddens and dies. Everything goes out and let you going. Everything smart, yeah, whoop. The next thing it is like that bad he movie all bill the light comes on above you, rolls the window down, looks out and here's this fut this directly above is on for like thirty seconds. The pulp a light. Well, according to some of the things I've been able, though won't find out. One point thought about getting his gun out and shoot again, which he said. I thought about that. I got better. You know, who knows what's one through his mind? Maybe something like what if it's a helicopter? What Amish was that? You know? And he said it was a bright red light, extremely a tense he could not see any structure to it other than the fact it was an extremely intense break. Without it, I can be blue and greame the lights on for like thirty seconds then starts going slowly away from well, this is when he radioed dispatch and said I need a minute to get back together this thing. It just been over his head and he was trying to Rachel as what the heck happened to him. So I finally regains his senses and in he goes. You know, I could go after this same so each the lights on a cruiser come back up. So he's able to restart the car and then get it going and he takes off. But when he goes down rolling, things gone and doesn't know where wins another officer and you had. When you listen to tapes, are quite a few different radio dispatches coming in from different offers is around the region and some may have been seeing stars, based on what the reporting. A lot maybe out a little hysteria because everybody else was reporting so much stuff at close. Well, one of the officers, his name was James Baker. He goes out to Brookfield Center, which was actually an old abandoned the radar tower. Well,...

...this was this radar towers really being used like for defence department purposes back until like s s when they shut it down as cold nor thing. Yeah, it's like a don't basically, and some parts of the stuff is actually still out there, but not the whole facility itself. Is going well. He goes out there and he wants to get a better view. It's want to highest things in the area. So he climbs power up and he's looking out, and this is a great part of the take these looking out and says, yeah, I can see these lights off at distance, you know, and it kind of looks like a Christmas tree. He said. These lights are flashing out there almost like a you know, like a Christmas tree. And Alston, he goes, please be a star, please be a star, Javid, I please be a plane hall, please. Why would you anyway for this shit? Haunt will pity you go and the thing it turning, started coming back towards you and he was panicky, but his whole nature just completely flipped. And then then Alston, he comes back to his senses, but he just getting extremely upset that hey, this thing maybe something unusual. I don't want to be up on this tower. Will you had the skeptics come out and try to explain a lot of stuff away that they were seeing like as being stars meet ears. Even had different ones saying that you know that airbase out your Vienna, it's a it's a air reserve guard base, Army Reserve Guard base. You get right now, like see where he's coming in. But to one three. Think they have some Black Hawk helicopters over there too. You see him. You're flying over on the way over there occasionally. Yeah, and they say, Hey, maybe it's a stell helicopter something are flying over there. But I don't believe that the base itself is. I don't think it's high enough level to having like that over there. And I mean no sound. Yeah, no sound whatsoever. Why would they be powering down police vehicles and things like that if it's our military and risk being exposed? Exactly I mean? I mean Malero was saying that this thing was about fifty feet off the ground. had no noise, he said. The light ashes, but like daylight. Wow, Ye, in size of football field. Yeah, I mean it was big. Did you ever interview any of the civilian witnesses that were calling in to the one center? No, I never got a hold of mine here and I know I didn't. I Know Kenny Young said he talked to a couple people, but he didn't document you. It was. What if anybody still in the area, you know on those roads, still lives there, that remembers that night? It's possible. It's possible. I mean billow actually was still on duty over to Youngstown last I knew. Really Yeah, because it was really wild. I was a director at a college over there and I go walking into building I see these bubble gum machines sitting in their lobby. I said, whomes these bubble gum machines and they said, Oh, some police officer does. And I don't know why. This is funny. I don't know why, but the first thing I want through my mind is I want to describe from Liberty Township its offt is revolt of the UFO. I said, here's unit investing each UFO. What's the chances of that happened? It's pretty long odds for real. Well, my secretary gives me the guy's card and is Toby Barrero Millaro. It's the guy. I think got a latent. It's like a can ability. Yeah, happening here something. I try to call him a couple times over some other things, but I couldn't get through to...

...him. A couple instance we had out on the campus, but I always want to talk to one on one. I didn't want to call him out, you know, directly on that. I thought about getting a cup of coffee with him, something I really did. I mean, it would be fascinating for you too to sit down and talk, you know. Oh yeah, because, I mean I'm the one. I would say hey, you know, tell me your story, don't care how boring it is. You know it's not going to be the TV show, which I don't expect it to be, but you know, tell me exactly in your mind what happened, you know, in your own words, because to me the shows exaggerate, elaborate and do everything else and really distort the story. And somebody's reports are actually much better if they if they didn't do all the exaggerations and all that stuff. Yeah, I agree with that, because some you know, some of the thing that things are actually just so mysterious that are hard to figure out. Where the TV shows want of a real nice package that like clearly an alien, clearly here to do research or whatever, but we don't any ri idea for real exactly I mean. And this whole thing over in Trumpbell County. Mean even got to the point that the dispatcher got some calls from somebody. Officers, Hey, go outside, you here the dispatch and look outside the station. Look, you'll see the object, such such a sky, and even one of himself. I'll come by and I'll bring out the where I'm at right now. Maybe you can see it. Yeah, I remember that. He has someone else to plug in for her for she can go take her break and try to write and see it. So she w she saw it, right. Yeah. Yeah, well, she didn't say a hundred percent, but she went out with the guy, but that way and she kind of remains skeptical about it. Right. Yeah, and I think I think she does and and like from my point of view and not. Some people may kind of like say, I you're just debunking stuff, but some of the things that they were seeing that night, I think really did go back to stars, but in reality may go back to the point of you've got a little mass hysteria going on because you've got somebody who's got some really unusual things happening. You've got people monitoring scanners and not just TV stations but local people in the area were monitoring your scanners in their house. It's picking up on the story. So this could have created a little bit of hysteria. Those lipn have kind of an official ruling on this case where there was identified or whatever. The parameters that you guys use are. No, they don't, and I this is one that they didn't even look into. This is one that I wish they would have but to might knowledge, they didn't investigate this one. And and the bad part is about the UFO field. I've got a ton of stuff in my garage. Half my garage is actually UFO PTURN. Wow, you have clober eyes. Yeah, books, magazines, all sorts of articles going way back to like the nineteen fort s and shifties, because old sci fi, pulp fiction kind of magazines. I've got some of those, even comic astonishing tales. And yes, exactly. But I've also got a lot of stuff because there's so many ufo groups, especially going back like the s s out there. They had conventions, they had different talks going on while they published periodicals with them, and one of my friends gave me a ton of that stuff and I've, excuse me, inheritance some of that stuff, also from some other UFO researchers, because the problem is as people like myself get older, what happens all this research we gather sometimes the family that says we're to put in file thirteen.

Well, one of the groups I've involved with we digitize stuff and we share it between each other sort of. Maybe you know we're creating like this mammoth library. Well, when you go back to these cases, like in the S and before, a lot of stuff was all unhard copy and written out. Even though the reports were were printed, people were still filling and stuff by hand. Yeah, and then it wasn't searchable or smart in any way, and that's the problem. So now you've got to try to make stuff searchable, try to find ways recorded catalog it to make it easier to find. So when you go back to s there maybe been a lot more stuff in that region going on, but prob is is maybe one the researchers who had that stuff passed away and all that research materials gone, or it's the form that's whoever has it. It's not searchable. Well, definitely be handy if you did get it to a point where you could search it. So then you know any triangular craft you could lump together in a search. Or you know, people describing seeing a light dishift between green and blue. Put that together in line and start to see maybe patterns and and that's what I've doute the one group. They've shared what I've shared my stuff of them and they shared a called terabytes of digitized information of me, and that does include everything. I've got a hard copy in my garage that I've logged what all books I've got out there, because I've gone back through on some cases I've worked in. One of my friends out of Michigan area who shared a lot of stuff with me. Buddy of mine said, hey, back in the nineteen like S, he says, I filled out a UFO report because I saw something back in the S. I said really, I said word. She fell off. The report says what, this guy was going around shopping malls had UFO displays set up and he goes he had all these displays talk about ufos and he's collecting reporters from people. I said, was his name John Timmerman? Because, yeah, I think it was. Now she mentioned it. Well, one from my files friend of mine shared with me and I found John Timmerman's files I go in the mall that this guy said he was at and I found his report from from the S. see, you have a weird odd to build the being in the right place at the right time and just knowing certain information that, like my brother said, it's almost like kind of have a six sons and a lot of look, okay, yeah, yeah, I think it's a lot of boat on are because one of the things getting off the sub people a boat. That got me into it. The UFO thing is not only my own experiences, but I picked up a book back in the high school they used to have where you buy paperback books like everybody like a paperback sales thing. YEA, yeah, yeah, and I remember my mom gave me like a buck and I could buy like two or three books each time with that buck. And one of the first books I ever bought was called flying saucer, serious business, and it was done by a guy called Frank Edwards. was actually a ABC news broadcaster one time and Frank Edwards was the forwarunner before before like the George naps to George and nor's art bills. He goes back before all those guys and he was talking about ufos on radio evening. Well, he treated like a very,...

...very real subject and I always love that book, by today standards would be dated probably not be interesting to a lot of people. But here's the weird story behind it. I got a phone call one day from somebody saying Hey, I've got a ton of UFO research stuff from my dad. My Dad passed way like fifteen years ago and the stuff has been setting in a barn three years. He was an investigator. Would you like it? I said Yeah, I'll take it. What have you got? I got a few boxes. When I drive down and I fill up two SEUV's full of reports, I found that your dad was actually very, very big investigator back in the s cool and he was well known. And I got two SUV fools. I'm going through stuff and I found a thing where the group that the guy was director of, back president of back in the S S, tried to hire Frank Edwards to come in to talk and they did. They paid him to come in to speak at a college in Cleveland and they pay at a paid him to come in and he had like fifteen hundred people show up. Well, here this guy the first book I read. Here's this publicity stills. Here's the contract. It was signed and even had a nasty letter in your for saying you guys never paid me. It's followed this this hoops, never mind, I found the check, but I thought that happening. You know, find you got your hands on that eventually. This is all we need to go to like missilian or something. Well, the guys I shared up with Michigan. I told him about the research, but mature I came from, because it was interesting about that is, I'm going through this research material, I'm looking through the stuff and here's back in the S, people used to advertise in the back of like popular mechanics. Biden like learned to be like good Charles Atlas. Yeah, I've seen those, yeah, and all that type of stuff. Well, he was selling copies of UFO reports were like a quarter and nickel, whatever it was. Here he kept a log of everybody who requested the information from him. But I opened these cards up and looking all the names on there and I recognized half a dozen names. When is that? No, I wasn't in there, but what one of my hes probably connected at the CIA or something like, keeping track everyone that's asking questions about your above. Well, the funny part was is half a dozen more authors now really these they started reading as a kid about this stuff and they continued it all these years. Yeah, that's cool. And I emailed one of the guys. I look him up in the Internet. Emailed them and I told him how I found his name. He goes, you got his research materiality. Says you hit one of the motherlods because he says, I remember sending like a twenty cents or quartering to the guy for the article. You know, your investigations and just your whole life. I guess that's taking you on these crazy little twists and turns as you're trying to track down what's going on up there. Fascinating talking to you. Thank you. So interesting. You know, doing this stuff. I really look to challenge to you know, that was just such a such a great story to hear from, you know, someone like him that really spent the time doing the research and kind of digging through the tapes and everything. And it's funny when you listen to them like, you know, at a certain point towards the end, you know like without shaking, some of those officers were and everyone was seeing it, and the dispatcher who I really agree to. Like listening to her, like she's funny, she's kind of Spunky,...

...like her, but she's like I'm not going to the I'm not going to make a report. Yeah, like no one wants to hassle. Well, a lot of them were worried about their jobs and you know, I was doing some extra research, like the National UFO reporting site. They have some stuff about this and the guy that was doing the digging there, I put it up on our website too, but he said that almost everybody that was working the air traffic control tower for both the civilian airport and for the air base was replaced within months after that. So I mean there's that I don't want to report this because I don't want to lose my job aspect. And and that's changing. I mean it's changing big now, right, because of what a tip they advanced aerospaced right identification whatever program yeah, I mean the for the Pentagon was was studying this and they've changed their stance, like we were talking where they they want the stuff we reported. But you'll remember, even when Tom was talking about again, that that great tic tech video that was that was filmed by the navy, the Air Force, whoever pilots, and one of the pilots is a female pilot, which is remarkable because there's not a whole lot of them. So it's worth mentioning. And she still active, so she hasn't come out. So like even now, if you want your career to keep going, you probably don't mention this stuff. Yeah, nobody's gotten promoted to anything, I don't think, for talking about UFOS. But it is changing. And you know, now we have the Pentagon and people like Marco Rubio and different senators and people like that saying that they need help trying to figure out what this is. So right it mean? Does that make it seem to you that like this one thousand nine hundred and ninety four ufolcase was probably really a UFO, probably wasn't an airplane or whether balloon or something that a planet or a star that's fooling all these cops and civilians you know right? Well, I mean I would say no one what we know. And like to go to that Marker Rubio quote. You know, it's a formal former presidential candidate and and he's saying he's interested in this because he knows for a fact that they are flying over our military facility, so you must have these reports, right? He says they're fine of our military installations. We they're not ours. We don't know whose they are. So it's at the point where you have these like very respectable real people that they don't care if it's a UFO, if it's an alien or, you know, a North Korean fighter pilot or whatever. They just want to know what it is. And I was another one those listening to, was that Louis Elsando, MMM and, and he said he's basically ruled out a foreign power. He said this isn't just being like decades behind, this is centuries behind. This is like if someone had cars on everyone else had like a horse and Buggy, like yeah, I didn't even think that is a good comparison. I mean, like I was listening to him too, and he was talking about our best jet fighters, the best that United States of America has, and we have the most advanced air force, most of the vans military that's ever existed on the planet. Our jets can pull seventeen gee's, while our pilots can handle nine G's. Basically, the average probably handle nine G's. The plane can handle seventeen gees for a couple seconds. These things like the TIC TAC video. It's pulling six hundred Geez like you didn't understand how it's not collapsing or tearing itself apart and those and that's the thing to like. I'm I would be interested and maybe some of our listeners can reach out or we can find someone that is, you know, smart enough to have an understanding of like what's on the edge of engineering for this kind of stuff, because I don't even know if this is on the horizon. I remember I read something interesting, probably just not read it, or something said like if you went to the s with like a Smart Watch, like house down at everybody be and you know, they said a lot of people would be surprised, but there's probably a couple guys working at like Toshiba and Tokyo that like, Oh, yeah, this is what we're working on, like in thirty years this will be on your you know, like, does anyone even have a clue? Is there anyone even? I don't think so, like this, I really don't. I think that's why the Pentagon is putting that stuff out there and why a tip and things like that exist is because...

...no idea. I mean, how do you comprehend a craft with no heat signature that breaks the sound barrier or break its goes fast in the speed of sound without breaking the sound barrier? There's no visible means propulsion, there's no wings. They don't understand how it has left and then it's doing this trans medium thing where it's going from space to our atmosphere, the flying around to going into the water. The only thing, like, if I want it to be real cynical and trying to think of just a natural phenomenon, that's what it would be like. Maybe there's some weight energy behaves that we're just becoming aware of, but you know that many smarter people than me have witnessed this firsthand and that's not their takeaway. So I don't think that's what it is. I mean, like what do you mean though? Like it's go expand on that little bit, like it's not just intelligent thing behind it is just some kind of weird like energy storm or something, just because, you know, I would venture to guess that every year humans spend more time in the sky than they did the year previous. Over, and I'm definitely over the course of decades where up in places we never used to be. It's maybe this has been a weird thing that's been going on forever and that's why we do have like ancient but it's just some natural thing. Like I'm I'm an open minded person and I'm definitely of money through have the UFOS. Like I kind of I think I lean towards an extra trustrial, which is crazy, but you know, there's lots of stuff. We're always discovering new stuff about the way this planet works that we never knew. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, I mean I definitely want to get into this more and probably will do an episode just kind of about like whether extra trustrials exist or not. But you know, researching this is got me. You know how you go down these crazy rabbit holes looking at the drake equation and which basically says there's millions upon hundreds of millions of stars like our star and there's got to be millions and millions and millions of plants like our star. But it doesn't make sense. Why if there's these hyper advanced intelligent civilizations and they and we're seeing craft maybe from them, that we know that their galaxy spreading there, they can travel through at least their own solar system and into ours. Why aren't we finding anything at all showing that there's untelligent life, like when they try to create like a transcendent and of Universe for themselves? Like we're not picking up any beacons. You know, when the first things that said he set out to do the fine extra trustrials, was they assumed that there was more intelligent races, that they would want to help the races coming up or the species coming up and that they would leave beacons. And like we pretty much ruled that out because that he's been going long enough that even if something was really far away, we would should have got a signal from them. I'm just trying to think of there's name for it, for a theory. I think they call it the zoo hypothesis, Uh Huh, and that's one of the scarier ones. And it's like that we're quarantined or a wildlife preserve or quarantine or and one of my ones that I'm sure this is not my original thought, but I was just thinking, like because I've heard some people think it might be that because we are on the edge of the Milky Way, galaxy or whatever, relatively and earth is like we're just kind of and the out skirts of it. Maybe we're up against another galaxy that has a super powerful alien nation that is not letting anyone else explore and they know about us and they're keeping us is. They're weird little zoo scidence experiment and like maybe there's a good ailing alien you fall that wants to visit and they keep get shut off by these guys because it's weird. Like if you drinks. Equation Basically says there should be, I don't know, like tens of thousands of civilizations right, I mean more than many times more than that, and that we're probably not the oldest civilization, so there should be civilizations that are millions of years ahead of us. Some of the different people that are into the say that maybe once you get smart enough, you either a destroy yourself or create virtual reality and that virtuality is so much better than real life that they all are just living in like virtual reality now as actually...

...something that. Yeah, I mean that's that's one of the great things about like theoretical physics and also where it fails. You it's like alternate dimensions. Is a great explanation, but if once you accept that, then that could be the answer for literally everything. Yeah, I mean I don't know. We we know that there's something there. I mean like these craft are something and they seem to have intelligence behind them. Sweet to figure out. Yeah, they could be interdimensional, he could be demonic. It could be so many different things and I think that will make a great episode where we just kind of go over that. I definitely think so and I would like to get some experts on it too. But what you reminded me of, because we e ever focusing so much on it being like nats, like an energy ball or whatever, or spiritual, you know, according to Harry Reid, former senator, you know, he was on the form relations committee, a big WIG. He says that you had a good reason to believe that lockeed Martin, the defense contractor, had a UFO and one of its facilities and he actually, as part of his investigation into this, through the department defense, the Pentagon, he asked to go visit and they they turned him down. So why they turn him down? He doesn't know. He said they just said No. It's pretty crazy that he thinks that they might have it. I would love that he if you would like go more on why he thinks locky Mart has. I mean, like just off the top of my head, I'm thinking it must be trying to reverse engineer something and that's why you us will give it to their most like trusted, you know, contractor to look at it. Let me. There's I wish I could hear the name. There's a guy and are people that are really in the UFOL community will know he's another one of these government guys, and he said he can't prove it, but he's like ninety nine point nine percent sure. or we are using reverse engineer UFO stuff. And that's again people that are like kind of agnostics saying I don't know if it's alien Ufo or just like a hight of the Cold War. The Russians drop something, we started stealing from it and no one really knows what it is, because that's always a possibility to like some of these things could be the decades long game of telephone started during the Cold War and what was really just, you know, I'Van Satellite became yeah, Martian craft. I can see it, but then I can't like when you think about, and I don't know, a home a lot about jet fighters or anything like that. But they're obviously have way more computer aspect to them nowadays. But I mean the basic principle isn't different from what they were doing in the S, right. I mean like a jet propulsion flying these rates. It's not some radical you fuel source or something like that. But yeah, but I mean, you know, so many leaps we've had just on our own technology from warning. I think it's what if it is so beyond anything that we can do, like we're just too too much as monkeys to even know what to do other than like getting a little bits in pieces here of how to do something. You know, I don't know, because it obviously unless some of these uphos that we're seeing our actually prototypes now of ours, we haven't figured out the whole I just had a really scary thought, you know, like the Nazi program were the first people that had like a jet fighter, right, and they were the first people that we're doing rockets stuff like with the V to bomb, and then after World War II we got some of their scientists to work on our space version. Paper Cup. I don't know that they're I don't know if they were the first or not, but they were like pioneering US pioneering. It would, if I mean scary if that was reverse engineered. That meant that the aliens like chose Hitler to give them their stuff. That would be that would be really bad aliens out there. Well, yeah, it could be, or disinterested aliens. They don't really know. Or, you know, neither just want crash landed in Poland. That's I had to getting pollen so bad. That be cool movie. HMM, that would be cool movie that the whole World War II is about getting UFO. Many keep making me go off or like just want to keep going down this road. But you that's the other thing too, about if there's these far away Super Smart Alien Race, why they...

...come all the way to Earth to crash at the last mile? You know? Yeah, although, you know, if they crashed in space we'd never know. So good point. A good point too. I don't know what we got a lot. I think that the next month, when the report comes out from the government, would definitely mean trying to get our hands on it and go over that, and I'm sure millions of people on this planet are going to be going over it and it's gonna be lots of great discussions coming. I think that you're in the new golden age of UFO and alien speculation. And so that is going to do it for us for this week. Next week we're going to have the rest of the Tom whortman interview. Yeah, we're going to be playing a story that he told us that took place down in salt fork. It's a true story. It's super crazy. We actually went down to salt fork to investigate that and we came up with a whole other story. So I think, Dan, the working title is just going to be salt fork stories coming up as I have two really good stories for you. And if you're a fan of more the chew crime part of the invisible shows podcast, hang in there. We'll get back to it. We're just in the middle of what Rick is calling the summer of Wu yeah, yeah, we want to talk about all the truly weird stuff that is been, you know, going through our heads and that we wanted to get into. So U's we're doing all summer. So in the meantime, just make sure you subscribe leave a good review if you don't mind. That helps other people find us and check us out. We have a new logo done by Kate Reynolds Perfecta. We will link to her website. She's a great artist. And Yeah, check us out online. We're putting up some of stuff to go along with the PODCAST, even on this case. So they'll be links and different things in the show notes and I guess that's going to be it. So until next time, invisible ships podcast, this show maybe we produced anyway without the mission the light invisible ships productions, and they'll see. Until next time, shipmates, until next time, shitmates.

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