Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 7 · 2 years ago

Murder Lake Episode 2: Victoria Macron Interview

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We talk to Victoria Macron and a retired federal investigator about the day Victoria's husband Bryon Macron disappeared.  

We are back with another episode of the invisible ship's podcast, and today's show is one that people have been waiting for for a very long time. We're staying with the Brian macron story, but this is a big one. This episode is huge because we have not one, but two extremely important guests join us on the show. One will be a highly decorated retired federal law enforcement officer who spent the last several years investigating the murder of Lafia Township Trustee Brian macren. There's no question it will be solved, none at all. He's been doing a lot of digging. He's ruffled a lot of feathers along the way, but that's how you get stuff done. His name is inspector Paul Hartman. We also have, and I think she's the one that you guys really want to hear from today, a very brave woman, Victoria Makron, who has been waging this epic one woman campaign to find out the truth of what really happened to her husband. Any of you anything of what's after Brian's body was discovered in Chippua Lake? The dark clouds seemed to settle over Madonna County, but those of us who lived here. There was a strange feeling around the entire incident. On the answered questions seem to pile up like snow on Chipvoal leake. Today is a day that we're going to be getting the answers to some of those questions, because we're about to play for you the first part of the Victoria American interview and we're going to gain so much insight from her story and it's it's amazing how brave she was and how much access she gave us and how much information she gave us. And before we go on and play the interview, I do want to tell you, guys, why this is so important. And this is so important because this case is still unsolved. The more audience that we give her, the more we share this interview, the bigger the platform that we build for Mrs Mackard and her family. And that's going to do one of two things. One, it's going to force the hand of the local politicians and law enforcement to revisit this case, to to go over with a fine toothcomb to look at everything. It's also going to jog the memory of people like with Dan. We are literally getting contacted from people all over the place. We are coming out of the woodwork. They were remembering things that they thought were totally inconstant Wi all the time. I was just going to mention that one. Another reason why we are actively trying to get this story out there to as many people as possible is we're getting tips now and one is going to actually show up in an upcoming episode. We have an interview with someone that you're going to hear mentioned in an interview today and I we're not going to give it away yet, but it could change the case. I mean this could blow the doors off of some stuff. So that's why, like I said, it's important. We are not trying to be self serving, but we don't really care about the podcast beyond the fact that we just enjoy making them. It's a hobby. Force is on we do on the side. But we're asking you, guys, and we never do this, to please share this, subscribe, give us five stars and Itunes, because that's going to tell the algorithms over there to recommend it. And, like I said, we just want as many people was possible to hear this because we're hoping to bring in national attention to this case. Well, and you know, speaking of Algorithms, they always tell you on podcast. Oh, please leave a comment because that shows that people like us or whatever, and we would like that. But also, if you have a tip, leave a comment on itunes after you rate us, because that is super helpful. And, like Rick was saying, like invisible ships, at this point it's just three guys that have an interest in in this. We're not experts, we're not pretending to be investigators, we're just talking to people. But along those lines, you know, the three of us have different ideas on certain aspects of the case. We don't know what happened. That's the point of all this. But when you hear in the interview is the subjects of the interviews opinions. Those are not necessarily our opinions. Right, we're not making any allegations and in the United States you're innocent until proven guilty. So we are going to share all the information that we have. This is going to be an unedited interview. Yeah, and that was a big decision that we decided to go so you when you hear the interview, honestly, some of the audio quality isn't invisible ship...

...steaders, but we did is a three way phone call. Yeah, so is a like a conference call between our invisible shitmate Darren, former federal investigator Paul Hartman and Brian's widow, Victoria Makron. You got to have to forgive some of their quality. There's some background noise. I couldn't clean it up. I did and I made the choice that the interview was too important. The insight in the information that you'll gain from listening to it is too important. I do want to destroy anything. We're just trying to give you the facts. You make up your own mind, and I want to make a point of a reason that we're doing this. Is One of the accusations that you will hear here will be maybe not refuted but kind of argued in a different way in an upcoming episode. So because in any kind of scenario like this, especially four years later, there's going to be lots of different things going around, and that's why me personally, even if you might hear some disparagement of local law enforcement authorities, you know it. It's hard until you're in their shoes to know what they're dealing with. So we're just let us kind of let everybody hear this and you know, we be more than willing to hear from the sheriff's department. I know we've reached out to Mr Sandford, who's retired. You'll hear about him. So we definitely don't want to run anybody off the road, or railroad ever, anybody. We're just talking and we're reaching out to just about everyone that comes up. So hopefully we will be getting hearing back from some of these people. But I guess it's probably time just to the role of the interview. The interview is a little rough for the first half hour and then it gets a lot better. We just had some interference early on, so hang in there. It gets better as we go on. Got Me, I got you know. Let me just do the my magic and bring in Victoria here. All right, victory, are you here? Yes, I'm here. Are you there? I'm here. All right. So I guess I have successfully done one of these I instein things and could I could three of us cool. So what's happening here now? This is this is Victoria macron on the line, just so you know. How are you? Hey? I'm good, Victoria. How are you good? Thank you good. All right. So we're putting together a podcast and I've had an interest in your husband's disappearance and murder and we're looking to, you know, raise awareness about it. So I really appreciate you put inside time here to talk to us today. Oh my God, you don't know. I'm so glad. I'm so grateful. Thank you. I'm so sorry for everything that you've been through. I can't even imagine. Me Too. So I've got some questions for you. Sure. So, so stuff that we don't know. Can you describe like the night that? So obviously he went out. You know, Brian went out to a get together over at the winking lizard. Is that right? Correct? And that was in Brunswick and it was for a get together for Christmas for township officials and whoever worked in Lafayette. Okay, some others like the local prosecutor and the county commissioners were invited as well. Okay, what time do you remember, like roughly, like what time that party was going from when to when? I don't I'm trying to think. I had to. I was going to attend with my husband, but my youngest daughter had had a broken foot and the boot was coming off and she had to go to a physical therapy, her first appointment. That night. Okay, that was I had to go to that meeting at five o'clock. I believe. The Christmas one started maybe around six. Okay. And and then he from there went and saw a movie right afterwards. Right correct. They went to see star wars.

I was a part of that and I hadn't heard from him till one of the township, the other township trustee, d messaged me, and that was fellow that message, because it never came through as a text message. It came through His Messenger and I didn't see it till the next morning because I was asking that. I was asking Brian, what time are you guys going up? What when are you meeting? And that's when I didn't see the message. So that morning. So I was at home. Okay. So then he went and saw the movie with Costello. He yeah, he apparently went with Costello. Okay. Did you go with anybody else? Um, that's know of of anyone else. Can I correct you there just for a moment? Yeah. Yeah, there is some preliminary indication that bowers was there as well. Yeah, and I found that out later because a friend of hers from High School, his sister, saw that Linda bowers had posted something on facebook about the movie. Okay, unbeknownst to me, I I didn't know if she I can't say for sure if she was there, but there was reference to it through a facebook message that he had commented on. Okay. So what what was Brian's relationship, to the best of your knowledge, with Costello and bowers? Like did he how did you like working with them? It was I mean it was friendly because they had to work together, but there were there were situations that, you know, Brian, Brian spoke the truth. Brian was about no bullshit. You know, he's here to serve the residents and let's have an open line of communication and there were numerous times where maybe at a trustee meeting, Linda was offended what he would say. I can't believe you just said that on the record. He goes why, like so what? Let's speak the truth here. So there were times when they would have to vote on something and he would come home from a trustee meeting and say, Oh, I'd say. How the meeting go? He goes good, but Linda's mad at me again and I said why would she be mad at you? And he said, well, she didn't like the way I voted. Okay, yeah, she seems like an outspoken trustee. Does that sound kind of accurate? Yes, HMM, okay, yeah, Brian, Brian was in a puppet. Yeah, yeah, he didn't want to do it that everybody else wanted to do. You want to do it was right. Right, he was. He wanted to do what was right. He said, you know, sometimes too, you know, you have a resident that would be upset. They might come into the meeting and he's like, you know, maybe I didn't see, maybe I had my view of what they were trying to address at the meeting. And he said, after listening to the resident, I could see their side of it, but by giving them the chance to listen, it may have changed his mind. Like Hey, you know what, you got a vail, a point here. Let's see how we can work this out. So we always gave the resident the benefit like, let me hear you out. Yeah, your Sio, give me a reason, what you know? And then Costello, he he would come to Brian a lot and say, you know, Oh, I don't like to wait, because he was also a fume. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, he's a firefighter for the township. He...

...was trusty and he works as a realtor for Linda bowers as well, under her pro edge reality. Okay, so would you say Costello and bowers were kind of a lot more together and Brian was kind of the one out as far as like odd man out a lot of times when it came to different things, and only because Brian was firm on some beliefs that you know that they weren't and Brian wasn't going to be a puppet. And I know, I mean he had said before that. Yeah, definitely, Mike Costello is Linda's puppet. She likes Mike because he does what Linda wants. Now, outside of the trustee relationship, how did like, how did your husband and Costello get along? Were they friends? Did they do anything out, like to go to a movie? was that like an unusual thing or yes, yes, yeah, I thought that was weird because I was going to go with them and I never heard from them. Well, here Brian said his phone had died at the movie and Costello was supposed to text me and let me know. Well, he sent a message through messing on facebook and at the time I couldn't get messenger wouldn't come up as a message on my phone. It would only I could only see it if you go into facebook. Got Jess, you log into facebook. Yeah, so I didn't even I would have never got an alert. I had no idea and I had text brying a couple times saying hey, you know, am I going to come up there? What's going on? Yeah, and never heard anything. I had asked him to stop on the way home if he could get money out of the bank because my daughter was going to go to breakfast before finals that morning, to bring a couple bucks home for her. She could go in the morning. Okay, so, but I'll work. No, we were he didn't do anything. There was one instance after a commissioners meeting that we attended and we all went up and just hung out after it one of the local eateries. Okay, and got something to eat after, but that was really the only time. No, did he hang out with him? No, no, it's not something common. Can I just step in here for a moment? Yeah, and that is the the facebook messenger application is going to be real interesting and you'll see a connection as this goes down the road. But a take note to that. Yeah, I why. I read the part. I know you put that on the blog. Okay, so you understand it? Yes, I understand that part. And Yeah, I thought I'm with you on that. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. And Victoria, Oh, no, you your so okay. So he comes home and you're probably thinking, like where were you? You know, I didn't need to re home. You know they were gonna. Well, not they, because I didn't know he was going with anybody, but I knew he was going to the movie. Uh Huh, and he did. He got home. I said, Oh, how was the movie is so why did you message me? Goes, my phone died. Didn't Mike Message you? And I said no, well, I didn't know because, like I said, messenger. Yeah, you didn't get it. I'm trying to think messenger now there's an APP for the phone now. Yeah, there was no mouth to tell me. Like I got them. I was going on. So I never went into message to look to see right, and then he pucked his phone. And when he got home and it was surround...

Christmas, we had the Elf on the shelf. He's like, Oh, did you put the Alf on the shelf out and I said no, not yet, and then he went over to the sink and he's like Hey, there's kicken tenders in the sink. They were defrosting. I said I took those out. He goes, well, don't you want to make those, because he knows I always make my kids these chicken wraps for their lunches? And he's like don't you want to cook these? I said Yeah, actually, I will put them in. So I put him in the oven. I don't know. They Cook for maybe twenty minutes, half hour, hmm, and we can that time we did the Elf on the shelf, hit that for our youngest and we went to bed. Okay, that was it. And then, so the story that I'm told is around to a weight. He got a message on his phone. Correct, yes, and I remember he had the Samsung Edge phone. It was a newer phone in it like has where it extends the glass down into the side. Okay, so you can see, like if it's laying on a flat surface, you can see like a message come through. I remember seeing a light go on. I don't know if there was necessarily a message what, but I now, looking back, Paul said it two thousand and eight. So we went to bed. It was probably shortly after one and I remember seeing a light. So it like lit up the side of the room where he lays on that side of the bed, Uh Huh, and it lit up and I remember seeing him get off. I remember seeing him standing there. But then from that I don't know they because I just figured, Oh, is he going the bathroom? Well, Captain Centner made a statement during the Captain Centner made a statement during the error. Brisk country something that you have Victorian, knew where he was going. I said, I didn't know where, I didn't. I didn't know he was going anywhere. Yeah, I saw was him get it up. It was at the side of the bed and I think at that time I was like, I say room. I never saw him leave the room. I never saw him. I just saw him get up. That was it. Okay. So he said, Oh, yeah, I he never talked to me. So how can he make that statement? That's it. That's a very good question, you know. Right. Yeah, again, let me just step in here for a moment if I can, and Victoria, please forgive me for adding side notes here. You know, that's okay. They're quote unquote, press conference. If you see that and you know it's you can find that on Youtube. Actually and according to Setner, who quite frankly doesn't know it's ask him a hole in the ground and you can never talk to me about anything. And then he's going to make a statement that Brian got up and I knew where he was going. I didn't know we were was going. I didn't even talk to him that. Yeah, I'll be so offended. Get up. So thought looking back, was was he going the bathroom? I don't know, I don't yeah, but it's like that subconscious like you kind of wake up, you see it and you just go back to sleep. I didn't think anything of it. He got up and went to the bathroom frequently. Yeah, no, I think that's you know, like I said, I mean with my wife, you know, if I get up, you know she doesn't know where I'm going to go. I could have gone and left and she wouldn't have known. You know, I can understand what you're saying. He would like we always stuck with it down comforter on our bed and he was more of the warm blooded. Yeah, so I was always a freeze baby. So...

...sometimes he would get so overheated. So and his the heater or the vent was on his side. The bet sweet always get the heat right away, but sometimes he would even go down and like lay on the couch in the basement, like to cool off. Or if he knew he had to travel in the morning, touching early flight, he's like, I'll just sleep in the basement so I don't wake all of you guys up trying to get out whatever in the morning. So sometimes he would do that. No, I didn't. Like I said, I didn't think anything of it. Yeah, that wasn't unusual. You don't think you're going to wake up in the morning and your husband's missing? I know. No, I mean no, so I can and that is that at the quote unquote, press conference center claim that Brian Left who thirty in the morning, which is clearly defeated by the fact that Brian was home in bed at one hundred and thirty. And actually, yeah, we see that that message at two unwait the morning, which ultimately triggered him to leave the house. That's the yeah, yeah, so so you wake up realize that Brian's not there and he was supposed to be there in the morning. I take it right, I realize he wasn't here. I mean I know we wasn't next to me in bed, but I just got up like any other day and I got ready for work. I was getting ready for work and I get to work and my daughter calls me and she's like, because I knew what he had to go to a meeting. He said, I have to go to a meeting in the morning. So he asked Alex, our oldest, to take nea, our youngest, to school. I didn't I thought meeting. Okay, it's for jewelry because that's the business within and a lot of times he'd go out last I knew he was going to go to the guy in wooster, Kate. What is it? Rotten day? Is it take on day? Yes, Jake and day. Yeah, okay. So he had a store and wooster, good friends, good, good client of Brian's, and he would go out there in periodically like talk to the whole staff and he said he was waiting on Brin to come talk to him, and that's what I thought. He said I have a meeting and that's what I thought. So I didn't think anything of it in the morning. You know, when you get up you're okay. Well, I got to work and Alex called and she said, mom, do you know where Dad is? I said. I said at a meeting, and she's like, or she did. I said. She says, well, they can't find him. I go who? What are you talking about? She said the sheriffs are here. So they're they're at your house. The sheriff at Your House. Yeah, okay. She said the shares were here. They're looking for that. I said will wait a minute. She goes, well, remember I had to take mear to school. I said, well, last time knew he had a meeting. Okay. So then I'm like, Alex, go down the basement. I said, go down the basement, look on the couch. Now he's out there. She's walking around the house. Now when she comes up, she said they're already in our house, inside, like in the kitten. Okay, so there's Ye. And they opened the door and let themselves in. You're saying, or someone was until we know. I believe they did. Alex said, come see you come here, like in I don't know. I believe...

...she may have let them in the front fo your area. And when she came upstairs she goes, mom, they were in the kitchen and they were looking around like and then Jim Sandford, who Brian wrote frequently with, that's his ride along. He'd always go with Pe. He was walking out ATFLEX was following. He was walking out towards the front because she was like directing them out and she said she I said, go and open the door to the garage. Is His car in there? And she's like no, and Jim said, I've already looked in there. Wow. So so this the Sergeant Stanford, has come up a couple different times I've looked into so that was that was Brian's main ride along. But then he retired within like the end of the year, right. He retired the day missing. Yeah, so was that a planned retirement that he did? Everybody know that he was retiring? I don't know. All okay, but they were friends. I think I have so many notes to that. I would staking notes. Yeah, again, I believe he gave his two weeks one for retirement and it was going to be at the end of the month. That's what that's what that's what I could find. But I mean that doesn't mean it's true, but I found that it was the thirty one of six, December, thirty one of six. When it was I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Okay, if I could interject here. I think that at least the carbon understanding is that he put in his retirement papers and the date that this headent occurred. Right, okay, which would make sense. We're right at two weeks to be the end of the year. Yeah. And then looking back, because I told Alex looking that when we when he came home that night, my car was in the garage. Alex had pulled her car in the garage and then Brian's car was in the drive behind hers. Okay, so he would. He was the first one out then, if he yeah, and usually Brian always pulled the garage and Alex's car was drive. Okay, everybody got home home, switch car, I like. They said, well, why did you look in the Grat? Didn't you notice this car was gone? Well, then it occurred to me he parked outside that night. Okay, because he would last one home because of the movie. Yeah, yeah, okay, so that's interesting. Sergeant Sanford was at Your House the day that he went missing, you know, and he was the one. I don't want to get too far ahead. Well, let's circle back to Sanford. So, okay, so you got notified at work and then did you immediately leave work. Then, Oh my God, yes, got out right. Where did you go? Like I said, I drop my stuff. It was like eight hundred and five. I'm like, I gotta I just like I just left. I just said I gotta go, and my supervisor was like what is wrong? I go my husband is missing, and she's like, Oh my God, what, like everyone was like what, what are you talking it's like and I try calling him and then she's like you can't drive, you can't drive in. I like, all right, just take me, take me, I gotta go home. So we get in the car. I well, I could barely walk down the steps to work. It was like you know when you're walking and it's like you're like you can't, you can't even it feels like you're going nowhere. It was...

...like it was like this, I can't even explain it. Anyways, I'm walking down the stairs, the backstair walk, okay, and she gets me to work car and she takes me. I said, wait a minute, wait, I said, maddy's look the square, she's having breakfast. I gotta get her. So she stopped the car quick and I jumped out to get her because she was having breakfast with girlfriends. And I said maybe we gotta go. We gotta go. Dan's not at home, he's missing, she said, but what? Like, no one knows. It's like you just you can't even. So we get in the car and wanted to takes me to my house and when we get there, you'll see Inford is standing in my like in front of the garage. was shot and he's standing in front of the garage with Linda bowers and he's standing like it, like an attention, with his arms crossed behind his back, so stowic. And I'm like he knows me, like he knows he's been to our house for dinner, like I'm shift. He'd come right say me, pass sauce, come over and eat, and I said he's standing outside. So stolen. I go up to when I go Jim Jim with here's Bryan, if you heard from Brian? And he goes, I don't know, and he just like shook his head like side to side. I said, what do you mean? What do you mean? Haven't you talked to Brian? said, I don't know, I don't know where he is. Just so cold. So and Lita after they're in my house, walking in and around my house. And then they then they're standing outside like they've never been inside. It just kind of liked, and I didn't know this till after I talked to Alex, like it kind of really upset me that I would definitely be upset on that. Offer condolence like nothing. Yeah, so cold, so cold, Wow. And say with Linda. Same with Linda. They so Linda was there, Costello was not. You're saying at that point, or that you can recall, because I mean, obviously I trust me. I've been through traumatic things as well and when everything happens, you know you got punnel vision to you know. But the to your best knowledge, you didn't see Costello. Remember castello being there. It was just Linda and Sanford. Don't believe Costello was here. No, okay, was other there was other deputies here. At that point, people started flowing in, like my mom came, my sister came. I let me think. Who Do you remember the name of that guy? Paul the WHO was it that talked to me briefly? I must say at Twenty thirty people in my house at this point. When we're got out, people were coming over and my family and one of the deputies came. What was that not Ross? One of them came in and sat down with me for like maybe four minutes, five minutes. How are you and Brian? How's your relationship? Did you have an argument? I'm like no, no, I said we've had I mean we've had arguments. Is this an argument? No, yeah, I mean I didn't know what he I mean. I know they have to ask that. That was basically the brief little bit of like that I've ever talked to them. I don't say so. Did they interview? They didn't interview any further than that day,...

...that five minutes, sit down in your kitchen. No, wow, none, none, okay, now that they never they never even interviewed my oldest daughter, Alex, who on this was Friday. On Tuesday she was going to her orientation at Ohio State. She was transferring from Oh you to Ohio state and Brian and her drove down the morning of Dou'Sday, drove down and drove all the way back. They had good conversation. She said he was on the phone with one of the somebody from the sheriff's department, Talking about jewelry and selling jewelry to that sheet. Alex said it was the sheriff. So who that was? I'm not sure. Okay, but she said, yeah, Dad talked to him on the way home. They never, they never interviewed my daughter to say, you know, how was your dad? Would you guys talk about? You know nothing. They never interviewed one of my family members. Wow, okay, and you would think you know. I mean you know obviously, you know, like you know, if that you want any date line, you know they're always say like the first you know, the people closest are the ones you want to get all the reasons from. Right. Yes, you always want to ask the family first. Yeah, okay, never except for that those few minutes in my morning room and then later that day. Okay, so the guy that came and talked to me, he had me fill out it's like a half sheet of paper and it had like the Kurban less copy in there. So he fills this out. He says, well, this is her Brian Cell Phone, the model of his cell phone, so we can have access to it now. This was probably nine, nine thirty in the morning, somewhere around there, and so I signed it, he gave me a copy of it. They leave. Let me step in here for a moment. That was your consent to accept the phone. But they have already searched the phone. Yes, because they had the phone, because it was in the office right. Oh, they had the phone and everyone was touching that phone. They never sent it for forensics. They never, as far as I know, they never. At that point they were already accessing it. Where they even did any fingerprints or anything ripped? Okay, because someone had told me that Linda howers picked up the phone and was like touching it because it was on the desk where the secretary sits. Huh, okay, but most of the like, as far as it being the crime scene, most of that was in his office. Or was it throughout the whole place? You know, there's it's not technically an office. It was a back room, like it was a conference room. Okay, that's where. That's where this completely yeah, okay, so it's a bad conference room and they said there was. I mean they're it's still infuriates me. It's still infuriates me because they they let people come up there. Lynda bowers was up there, my costello was up...

...there. The maintenance sky walked in on it. He was up there. They were walking around that whole place. Everybody. Mike saw the sea. The maintenance sky apparently walked in, saw the scene and that's the one who reported it, right, the maintenance or do we know who reported? Yes, as far as I know, yeah, that's who called it in. Oh, he called. I believe he called Sanford first. Okay, now, why Stanford? Why not just call into the sheriffs? Why not call on? Yeah, so what? So, let's well, let's I think it's a good time to go to Sanford. So, so Sandford was you would consider a friend of Brian? Right, yes, yes, but then, as soon as this happened, what was your so obviously you had the encounter where it was very stoic, did not offer any accolades, didn't seem to really give you any information, and then he put in his too wik notice that day. What's what's have? When's the last time you've talked to him? I haven't so not since the day in the driveway. There was no other time. I tried calling him. He came home when they had me signed that form at the house. Huh, I got a copy of it. So they all left and I a friend. He actually came and sat. He's for his children and he's police officer, he's the police chief him that Bill. He came and sat with my family, not knowing what this was. We were worried. I think I kept my winner jacket after two days waiting to get a call to Sir and torry came and sat with us the entire day. Just I think is like comfort and protection that you know, I'm going to sit with your family because you don't know what's going on. Yeah, so he sat here and I think that he showed up after this other incident. I'm getting ahead of myself, but okay. So Jim had called me after I sign that consent thing. Jim had called me and said we need you to come or I need to come by the house and you need to sign another form to take his laptop, his small laptop that he traveled with. I said okay, I said in the meantime, as I'm waiting for him to come, I got on the phone right away and I call the FBI and I said someone has got to help me. I don't know what is going on, but I said I'm I don't know what to do and I have people to get to. And then my brother Inlaw's for my sisterin law, which was quite beef. Let me think. Her aunt's husband Work Sim this. He worked, he said, BCI, or he knew, yeah, he knew somebody. He was an attorney, but he knew someone that worked for BCI, and he's like just let bc I handle this. You know. I'm like, well, I don't know what to do, I don't know if I want to talk to them, I don't trust them, I don't know what's going on. I don't trust anybody here. and Um, so your hunch at this very beginning part was it was something to do with either the the township or the share its office or what. Yeah, yeah, somebody something, or I didn't know,...

...even the pipeline, I was going to say. So we had the nextest pipeline, which I've I've gotten my note till. So something possible, but it's not something to do with like his business as a jeweler now our his past experience as a marine, those things not even are feeling. No, nothing like that. Something more with something local. Is is we're right because of the way that they were handling it, like it felt like. It felt like it felt like I, as much as like Jim is, been around and he was ending with us, all of us. It's this so so all for nothing and no condolence. I mean who even as how can you have that in your conscience to even not off or something like it? Just it just felt weird. I'm going to tell you felt weird new us. Yeah, do his birthday party, you know what I mean. And it was it was like guy as a side. No, here this guy, Stanford, never went to the lake or the funeral service. Okay. Did the trustees go to the services? And they were not invited. Okay, because Linda, Linda is all about notoriety and how she can even in the even in all of this, Linda will insert herself at try to look like so hopeful and she she wants notoriety. Okay, she at. That's yeah, that's how I saw it. Yeah, and a definite word. First, I kept her. You know they say keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. Yeah, and I started like I was I would message her to see. I'm like, well, she would know. She knows everything. So I was keeping her post that I thought, wow, I gotta know if she knows for his heard no talk at the town all the time. So I stood doing that, but then I'm like, you know what, I don't even trust her. I completely shut myself off from all of them. So in the midst of I was going to before I call the FBI. Got That from Jim. He needs to come by to have me sinus form. So he comes and then I called the FB I when he's on the way over and I let him in and I said. He's like why, I have this form decide for you to sign, and I said, and he was going to start talking to me, I said, you know what, let me tell you something. I said Brian did everything he could for this township and I said, I'm not talking to you, I'm not telling you anything. I said I don't trust you, and he's like, well, I just want you to know that he said something and I didn't. It was like like that tunnel vision, like you can't you see him talking, but I can't even because I didn't care what he was saying at the point at a time because I was so acrid with him. Yeah, and he's like, well, you need to sign this, and I said, you know what, I said, I'm not signing anything. I said, I'M NOT SAYING I won't sign it. But until I...

...have somebody, or maturney telling me, you know, representing me. I said I'm not doing anything because I don't trust any of you. Okay, and then this was how soon, like so the sixteen is probably about ten thirty, eleven ish. Maybe this is on the sixteen or this is a later date. This is on the sixteen. On the sixteen, because he wanted me to come and sign this other form and he says Oh, by the way, he says you do. Do you have another form that you signed earlier, the other whoever that was, it was here. Okay. I said yeah, I have it. He's I see it and I said tures. He starts writing the serial number down of Brian's phone and I'm like wait a minute, and I pulled it away from and I said you already have a copy of this. I said you're not copying this again on this form. Have a copy beside. I think you don't have that happy death to fault. I said that's I mean, this is how shouting the investing was like. Why are you starting to write this down when you already have a copy of it? I said, you came here for me to sign for the computer. Yeah, I think you anything. Already had me sign the form for the phone. I said, now you're taking the serial number down for this? I said no, I said get it on the other form. Yeah, I mean it just made me feel uneasy, like, wait a minute, they're supposed to have this copy to search the phone and now he's come down on this new form which was like a whole, like a book sized piece of paper, and the other forms only has so I don't know what they did with that. Yeah, well, what did he what he's saying, because it couldn't even keep the paperwork right. Yeah, well, what did he say? Whenever you know, you said that that form was already this. Well, you need to sign this so we could search. I said, I'M NOT SAYING I won't sign it. I said I don't trust any of you. I said I don't trust anything of what's been going on. I said I don't like this as there's going to be more of the interview coming up in the next couple episodes but, like we said before, we have four and half hours, so we're breaking up into manageable chunks. Let's discuss what was talked about so far, and one of the big takeaways straight away is how strange law enforcement seemed to be acting and how immediately, I think, Victoria was questioning their motives right nine. So you got to figure. So she left at what thirty from her job when everything got a run right or on eight or eight thirty? You know, she was notified and by eleven o'clock she's already ready and called the FBI. Now, when you think about to put yourself in a traumatic event, put yourself in that, that time where that bomb goes off and you can't see everything you have, you know, you just have tunnel vision. You can't even perceive everything you know. And so that's that's where Victoria is right now and she had enough. What she was picking up in through this major, major crisis moment was I cannot trust law enforcement to the point where she doesn't even set what, you know, a friend of hers to that's bringing a document for her to for them to sign so they can access to find her husband, she already senses something. Yeah, and you know what, daring that is the bigger thing. It's so when you said I cannot trust law enforcement, it could be joe public out there that doesn't have any dealings with them, but we're talking about the people that came over to her house for dinner, people that she was runs with, babysat for everything, people that she knew her day party. But then, when it comes down to her...

...crisis moment, you know, he wasn't even at the at the funeral, you know, and you know was cold, didn't even give her a hug. was in her driveway and the in her moment of crisis, you know, someone who she cooked for, you know, couldn't couldn't give her any anything. You know, and he maybe he was trying to maintain that professional line, because this was him. This was Sanford at work. We don't know that, but but Sanford at work was stopping by and getting the Hosta Right. That'll see infer an UN lunch break at let's break. Okay, let's bring examined. But you're right, something seems fishy right up the bat and Victoria caught it right away. I wanted to go back because there was a part earlier in the interview where she discusses how her husband was taking her down to know you for the day and you got a call from well, according to the daughter, a sheriff. Now a lot of people I noticed call any deputy or anyone with the sheriffs department of Sheriff. But there's only one sheriff. So did she mean it was a deputy calling and in quarrying about jewelry or was it the sheriff? That could make a difference. But either way, what do you think about that? I mean, before he goes missing he gets a phone call, according to the daughter, from somebody from the sheriff's department inquiry about jewelry. Just a coincidence? I mean it's you know, it's so hard to say. It's hard to assume that it really was Sheriff Miller. So I mean I hope that listeners don't feel that way, because I don't feel that way personally, that it was necessarily Miller. You know, he could have just been someone from the sheriff's Office and then she thought, you know, the sheriff. It's hard to say, you know, I mean Brian, that was his job. And you know, everyone knows the markup that you get when you go to a diamond store. So I mean I could picture, you know, like people kind of, you know, getting at that. But it can sometimes be confusing because we're dealing with a sheriff's office. So when someone says sheriff, they don't necessarily mean the sheriff, and that's probably what happened in that call, if someone's just asking him for jewelry advice. You know, I think the more important thing is is I mean he's been a lot of time with her and it didn't seem like anything out of the ordinary, you know, and you know. So they had a good drive. It sounds like it's something that that the daughter really cherished, as far as I'm me memory, you know, with her father. But you know, I I don't know. You know, it could it have been something that went but then again, if you're doing this all above board, that wouldn't have been the reason that you would have gotten out of bed that night, right. Yeah, I don't know. That has anything to do with that. Let me bring up this then. So why didn't they interview the family? Why did not? Why do the law enforcement members not contact the families In't that the first step in any kind of criminal investigation, like one on one? Well, clearly they were getting information enough that they felt like from some other source, which I think that will come out and I think you'll be able to put that together in later episodes. But that is to me a you know, that's like interview one hundred and one. Go to the people that know them the most. They pretty much bypass that. They we know statistically right, people are killed by people they know, people that are close to them. Very the stranger murder is a much more exotic and rare type of murder, correct, and you know. So the people closest to him, you know. Obviously, when they start putting this piece together, they know that Victoria was the last one to see him. And how much time did they spend talking to Victoria? You know, very little inner kitchen on the most tragic day, I would say, I don't want to speak for her, but probably the most a day of her life, you know. And so they didn't bring her back, they didn't try to gather more evidence. You know, I think the hard part is is this day is so important and, as you...

...see, we just found a total, well, one full episode pretty much on this day and we've got even more to come just about this day alone, you know, and it's just so it's such an important time and when you're in this tragic moment there's things that you miss. So it's like you're trying to pick up these little things and I'm shocked at how much Victoria can recall on this because, you know, it's it's just it had been insane. Yeah, Oh, and going back to this day. So I'm glad you brought up how crucial and how much, how many important things are set up about the whole case on just a small little window of time. Right, because now we have the forensics and already off the bat they screwed it up and it's contaminated. They let phone is contaminated. They it sounded like we'd in too multiple witnesses and we have some unconfirmed sources to that were in the crime scene and we're going to be reaching out to them right now. We're actively working those leads and trying to bring them to you. But we have multiple people in Victoria. Out of our own mouth was talking about how there was no control of the crime scene, that you had Linda bowers, who seems to be all over the place, is touching the cell phone, she's doing all kinds of things, and then you go back to the fact that the person that's doubled on the scene didn't call my one one. I've been talking to my wife about this. Yeah, so let me put this out there and want you to try to tell me what you think. So you walk into your office, you coming in, turn it on the lights and you see of the office is disheveled, right, because we have reports that it was. There's blood, there's nobody. There's nobody hurt that you can see. I mean you can tell somebody was hurt. They see blood, but you don't see anybody. Would you call one one right away, or would you call your boss? I would, oh, which one would I call? Absolutely first, I think I would call nine one and then call my boss. But I mean that would be that's a tough decision though, you know, because when I first heard this, I'm like, that's Fisher is the maintenance guiding call on one. He called Linda bowers first, right, and Lena apparently probably told him to call one. Well, but any called Sanford. Oh, so, all right, will even Sanford like this pretty much like nine one, when I yes and no. So so I guess the question is is you know what's going on with Sanford? Why did he need another copy of the information from Brian's phone? Now I remember Brian's phone. Is the thing that got him up at two hundred and eight in the morning through to leave to go down there. And let me just stop it, because whatever Z on briant's phone is probably the answer the home mystery, right, I mean if we really have it, if we had got them up, I mean that's highly incriminating. Right. Yeah, go ahead, though, sorry, you know. So he's trying to get it nowt so the sheriff's office has the right to the phone. The only person that doesn't necessarily directly have the information of the phone. What could be? Sanford, right, because he didn't have that form and he had a different form per victoria that he was having. He was writing down the serio number of the phone. Why would you need that serial number? Did you? Did you miss place the form? So that's question number one. Possible, right. Yeah, but let me guess what's your question number two, isn't is it like some kind of backdoor? Maybe he needed to pull it out of evidence and look at it and change it. I don't I mean I don't know. This is all speculation, right. We're not accusing anybody of basicsting, but we're just we're just throwing it at the wind. You guys are thinking about it right now. We're thinking about it. Why would you need the zero number from the phone that? That to me is a very puzzling thing that I don't have an answer for, but that raises suspicion. Why were you called immediately rather than you know, there's protocol, you know,...

...and there's protocol and every job and when you walk into something like this, there's protocol. It's nine hundred and one. It's a recorded line. If you call Stanford directly, it's not a recorded line. That's a good point too. So that means that if the person on the others on the phone wanted to ask questions about the crime scene or make suggestions about what to do with the crimes, that person could do that and go unrecorded. Is Potentially or tell them to do something before it all happens. Or you know, I don't know. You know, I mean, you just don't you don't know. You can speculate all day long and I'm not here to speculate. I'm here to we're here to bring Victoria's interview. We here to bring light to the case, you know, so that that's our main goal. Our goal is not the you know, cause anybody that that undo harm. That's right, but I mean still, it's a natural question. We got a question that. You got a question. Right. Why is that? which we have reached out to it believe we're trying to reach out to serge at Sanford. We don't have a direct line for him. So we did reach out to Linda Bower. So right, we did reach out to Linda and Mike Costello. Neither one of both of them the client. I think we talked about land. Yeah, but just in case you haven't listened to the first episode. So the pipeline, the next is pipeline, was the very first thought that Victoria macro and had. Remember, when you're asking her what was going through her mind, that's the first thing that she thought had to do with her husband's disappearance. Is before we found the body. But right, that's what she thought, that it had something to do the Nextt pipeline right, which you know, went through Lafitte Township. It went through the same property as the fire department, which was a Levy. At that point they were trying to get approve, which Brian was very much for, and it who's for the lovey or for the pipeling for the Fire Department Levy, right, but he was not for the use, not for the pipeline. No, now it's interesting. Linda bowers was instrumental in the pipeline in Medinah County. You can check out her web page if you'd like for further information on that. But but she led a countywide group for it. Do we want to talk about Linda with put me will wait a little bit on the Linda with the pipeline. Will let well, let Victoria talk about Linda with the pipeline. Those come up pretty soon, probably the next episode. Yeah, talking about that. So big takeaways from this interview thus far? First of all, it's the first time you guys get to hear Victoria. You know, the sound quality is not great. We did our best, but you know, we did leave it very uncut to just it's directly from her. This is what she wanted and that's what we're out to do. So is to give her a voice and to paint the picture better than what we've had this far, which I think you guys can already see. There's a lot more detailed to this than just the quick little snippets which we were able to summarize in one episode. So you know the next episode is going to cover more of that day and you know it cover it paints a larger picture. You're going to have a lot more. You know, like IUESAID, you're never like forty five minutes ish of information coming at you. This is just directly her interview, you know, and it'll I think. I think you'll you'll appreciate it. And before we pull away from this one, though, there's one last thing, and as I was listening to it, I wrote it in my notes and giant letters, and I think this is really big, is that immediately you felt like a cover up. To Victoria. We kind of addressed that. How she called the FBI within a couple...

...hours, but she was immediately sensing a cover up. Yeah, and our moment of crisis, she felt that this was a cover up or something of the sort. You know her. She didn't know who to trust, she didn't know who to go to. Her husband's gone, she doesn't know about the office as far as how much blood is there or you know, and then now she's getting rumors. Yeah, and that, I'm sorry, let me interrupt. Put this is also before they had the office repainted. Within a day or two this is before the body was found in the really strange conflicting reports between the sheriff's apartment and the autopsy. This is right on the ground the first few minutes. She's already sensing cover up and she's going to get a whole lot more reasons to believe that there was a cover up in the coming days and months after this, isn't she? Yeah, you know, put yourself in Victoria situation. Your spouse is gone. You you've only known this for two hours and you begin to refuse to sign things from the department because something doesn't add up, not because you don't want your husband back, but because something's not adding up anymore, like it's not making sense, and that people that were your friends are not being there for you. You know, and and you know it, the day just gets crazy. I couldn't when we were doing this interview. I couldn't believe we were still on the same day. I thought, oh my gosh, it's be a long interview. There's a big day, and it turned out to be a long interview. But, guys, thank you for joining us. We're going to be bringing you more of the Victoria macron interview. We're going to be bringing you more of the interview with her investigator, but in between now and when the next episode comes out again, it's important for you to share this interview, to like it on whatever social media APP that you're using, to listen to it our podcast APP, and let's just get this out there. Put the pressure back on the investigators, from the law enforcement and from statewide everything. Put the pressure back on those people that are responsible for doing their job, force them to do their job and let's try to find Bryant's killers.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (24)