Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 11 · 1 year ago

Murder Lake 6

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Victoria describes the day they found Bryon in Chippewa Lake. We learn about identical cars and a floundering investigation. America's strangest "closed" case gets a little stranger

Welcome back to another episode of the invisible ship's podcast. I'm sure by now everyone is aware that forrest Thompson washed his hands of the Brian Macarin case. That's right. Yesterday, at a press conference, Madinah County Prosecutor Forrest Thompson officially close the case. We're left with an undetermined cause of death. There's going to be no help from the cavalry. You guys, we are it. It's going to be up to us and you to crowdsource this and to finally get answers and justice for the macarn family. This isn't over. This doesn't go away just because of prosecutor decides to close the case file. We had a lot of interest from all over the country. If a lot of smart people out there that are listening, that are looking into things, and we got people who are calling constantly, people that seen things, people that know things, and we're going to get to the bottom this. We also have interest from national media and that may be developing quicker now that the case is closed. Will have to wait and see. We are going to do an emergency podcast with Danny and Darren where we're going to go over the press conference all the contradictions and just everyone's going to give their take on it, because that was a big moment in this case and we need to discuss. The episode that you're about to hear was one that we were already working on and there's a lot of important stuff in this episode that I wanted you guys to hear. So I didn't want it to get lost in the shelf. All with all the new developments that are going out with the kicks. You need to hear this. Victoria and Paul do a very good job of laying out some strange things that were going on around them at the time that Brian disappeared, and these are things that we're not brought up at the press conference and you're not going to hear it. Most of it has even been in the media, but we're bringing it to you all. Victoria are telling you what they witnessed in their own words, and so I wanted to play for you. They wanted to get lost. Let's just start. We're gonna jump in with Dani and Darren is. We're kind of recap and some stuff that we learn from the last episode and go over a few things that we now have more insight on. Ready protect all its time for the invisible ships podcast, where we talked about everything from true crime to the truly weird invisible ships podcast. I think one of the important things we need to do is clarify the wallet. So I made the mistake of assuming that the wallet was with the Cell Phone. And actually, like Victoria called me out last week, he said this was like an episode, two or three of them early I think it was episode three, if I remember right off top of my head, that we that I mentioned, like you know, about no wallet, no cell phone. You know, they had that stuff in the office. Turns out Brian left that morning without his wallet. So do you ever leave the house without your well, very rare, really right? Neither are is it? It's always wall key's phone, right, and that's kind of weird, even that early in the morning. And now mask but yeah, you know, yeah, I mean, I mean to be honest with you, like you know, since no one really knows me, but I keep my wallet actually my car pretty much all the time. So I mean it's like right there. It's always with me. So I don't know, maybe maybe it was just something like happit stance and you know, I asked couple of people, everybody. I just have to let everyone know what you drive. If they see yeah, sorting, you find a wallet. Yeah, it's a blue Ford Focus, not sor right, right. But that does kind of maybe illustrate his frame of mind at the time and he's frantic. It's that would be pretty much the only time you'd, may be, forget something as basic as a wall. Actually doesn't say frantics to me. That says that this was something that was only to take a minute. Take a minute, or he didn't want to be identified. I think this is just me and I don't have any evidence to lead me to think this. That whatever the text message was about, there's going to be a quick little I need you to give me this, I need you to open the door for me, something like that, like where he expected to get out of bed, drive down there, unlock a door or meet somebody real quick and then go back home. But that's all just supposition. That's just completely on me. But I would say that leaving your wallet, if that was the case, it would be a totally natural kind of thing to do. I could I guess it's Paul, like two sides of the coin, right, but it could be there. Yeah, this can take two seconds. I don't need it, or I'm in such a rush I forget it or I don't want it. You know, we got to think about that too. I mean we don't know. Let me if we knew the answers, then you know, I'm in this case would be solved. Okay. So the idea that he doesn't want to be identified, let's make a lot of sense, because he wants too the one places that use one of like three or four people. Yeah, he to do something and you know, you be identified by like a cop if you got pulled over or something. So that I don't know. I mean you need money pretty much anywhere, but I guess probably the most obvious, I example, would probably be he thought he'd be in...

...and out really quick. You guys brought up about boots and the when I kind of teased laps episode. You know, here we are with it. You know the information about Darren macaren calling BCI and they're saying, well, we have his boots. I mind you, we don't have Brian out of the lake yet at this point right and they're saying they have his boots. You know what's who? Who Take that for the well, A. whose boots are they be why were they tagged as Brian's? Or is this just like a gross error in the BCI case? No, no, Gus, the bootprint behind the fires. Yes, that's exactly what I think it was. I think that what Brian the painter told us. There wasn't a shoe print. He said found a bootprint. I think that must be with the deputies or whoever was, you know, doing the processing the crimes. You can discovered. So they see a bloody bootprint, they're thinking guys wearing boots, but they have boots at the BCI, from my understanding of this interview, right from before they recovered the body. Correct. Yeah, that's and that's what we're saying. Even on the last episode. They sure knowing awful lot about his footwear for someone they haven't been found yet, right. You know, that's a huge concern. So obviously Brian was recovered and Brian did not have boots on. Now he did have, for my understanding, shoes on, but he did not have boots on. So where are these boots at? Who tagged them and who mark them as being Bryant's? And I think, most importantly, we're in the office where they discovered like yeah, I mean here Brian, as a trustee, or any of the trustees I can imagine, say there's development going on somewhere the township. So you may have boots that you leave there that you're required to go out and expect something or look at a parcel of land that they're thinking about buying. So you're going to change in your office into these boots, then go there and then come back and change back into your shoes, something like that. As busies beyond the realm of housebuild it's possible. So he could have had boots there. They used for things like that. And from everything I've gathered from actually with nexus coming in, you know, but everything I've gathered from Victoria, Brian wasn't like a boots guy. was full time doors day job or whatever. Was a jewelry salesman. That's sort of the opposite of a bood Guy. You'd probably wearing nice dress shoes and looking nice because you're going to nice places. And also you got to figure out when he left his house. He didn't bring his wallet. So is he gonna like tie on these, you know, boots and lay them all up, or is he going to slide on some like quick slip on shoes that he wore every day. So right. So, I mean I guess just maybe forget the body double theory. I'm just trying to finally to organize these certain strains we have going on. Maybe this is more of the theory of try to account for evidence they might find by pinning it on Brian instead of whoever that really was, and that would be maybe a large person on camera, maybe the boots. Right? Is that kind of the line that we're sort of I mean, that's kind of where I'm at. Is, why would you like why did Darren Call Down there? Then this is all per Victoria's interview, but why did Darren macron called down there to be SI and they talked about his boots when they clearly weren't his boots. Nor was he recovered, but we know we have bootprints in the townhip office. In the last interview, you know there there was a lot of conversation about guns, surplus guns and sale of guns and you know, I think Ricky, you mentioned that at the closing, kind of making that question like where are you at, Ricky, with these these guns that here is the sheriffs office selling these guns or what's going on. I don't know. I mean they certainly deny doing that right there official statements. They don't sell guns to the general public. I just had always kind of wandered and I remember when we actually were doing that interview thinking the back of my head, did Brian See something on a police ride along that he maybe wasn't meant to be seen? And I you know, we're not anti police, I don't think any of us are. We we want justice, we want bad people punish and good people rewarded, but we don't have an ax to grind with the police department. And I'll say even in the framing of some of these questions, like was the sheriff's department selling guns? You know, we all know how the world works. It wouldn't be the sheriff's department. It would be a dude that works for the sheriff's department and individual bad actor. Yeah, and that would probably in any of these past and wherever this ends up, and there's chances we might be learning things sooner that rather than later about where this might be going. So stay tuned for that. But wherever it ends up, it's not going to be that you know, just speaking plainly and realistically, it's not going to be that mediiney county fails as a complete department, despite what my some people might want to say, right it is that there was things dropped. They don't hand a lot of murders. Maybe there's something crooked. I honestly don't know right, but I don't think it's the whole artment. I mean I think you got to look at every single possibility when we have something that's been unsolved for four...

...years. So going back to the gun thing, that's what I was kind of wondered like, did he potentially see something or know about something that was going on that he shouldn't have known about or they didn't want him to know about? And we know that in Ohio and some of the listeners of addressice and I don't know if we talked about it previously or not, but we'll talk about it again. I know we have private conversations about it. That sales between individuals in Ohio is not illegal. I could sell you a gun, you could tell me a gun, as long as you show me ID that your state resident, that I don't know that. I don't believe you're a fell and I don't believe we're going to use the gun to commit a filming and there's all paperwork to that. So it's there is not paperwork required. No, but guns purchased by a sheriff's apartment or any other governmental entity our purchased with text pair dollars. So they can't do that. They would have to I don't know what the procedure would be, but they would have to be some accounting of what's going on because that money would have to actually belong to the taxpayer. All right, I don't know if that's enough to get anyone killed. Well, I think also, I mean like so we are hearing this technically thirdhand here, and I think we got to keep in mind that a lot of times when a rep comes into that is representing a gun company, they will offer to the deputies, for my understanding, the good price to purchase a firearm, that same firearm that they're going to carry, and kind of extend that offer as to their them as civilians. So it wouldn't be unrealistic if Brian knew a sheriff who is having a good offer from a representative and then turn around and buying it from that sheriff's deputy. Maybe this is all speculation. I don't know who it is, but someone who would to have access to that kind of a deal. And that's that's technically not illegal. So I mean that that could be an explanation that's completely legal in this situation. That could explain the firearms we really are heard to sing in bulk. So they could say, you know, we need guns for seventeen deputies, but we can make it eighteen. You just pay that. You paid cash and registered underneath your name, right. You know, and I'm the whole scale like means mud of an opportunity. This is got a it's not a super high likelihood means or motive right here, I mean. But still, did he see something else on our ride along or know about something else? I mean, you could have saw sign driving to work. But if we're going with riot along, so we're going with something that he saw. What if he saw something when he was at on December fifteen at the winging lizard? And that's something where I'm going to call him out. But Our Cohen Guy, hmm, you know, and I'm very interested in an interview with him because he has information that we haven't quite come out with yet. Cohen, we wants you to come on the show one day. Okay, we would love to have you on the show. We talked to him on the backside of things. He is a very anonymous person, but he everything he's told us is checked out. We double check behind this guy. Everything's told us has been good information. I think that he's the real deal, but he needs, he wants to protect his identity and we of course respect that, but we would really love to have him come on the show one day. Another stay tuned a situation. Yeah, there are things in the works. Oh, there's so much stuff in the worst and big things. We've been giving shout us to our listeners and totally deserving every guys, because you've helped us and you really are the ones that did it, elevated this case from something that was four years old and kind of legging it as a cold case into something that we're putting it back on the forefront. And I keep saying it, but it's true. That's the kind of thing that makes things happen, that makes politicians realize that they got a job to do, it makes them get on the investigators and and we can't let this be a forgotten cold case and you're the ones that are doing that. Keep it up, Cohen, keep doing your thing. Websluice, everyone, all the people that are given us tips, and if I could make a shout out real quick, is just a jump on ricks Jay Ramirez on webs loues. I love yes, yeah, I haven't. You are robbing sile mirrors. I read a lot of stuff. You are driving from another county to scope it out and we love it. Keep posting. We're reading you what you got and said, okay, since we're doing all this, let's just saying what everything with the facebook community that's growing and the Youtube and on our website, www dot invisible ships podcastcom. Like we're actually kind of growing a community and people are signing up and joining and it's becoming so dynamic and we're having people ask us. This is great. We love this after Brian Macer and what you guys doing, and we're still fishing for that, still trying to figure out where to kind of shift our focus next. But wherever we goes, we want to bring you guys with us, because we're going to just keep crowds orcing this stuff and we're going to look for another small town kind of cold case that just needs the bullhorn of Twentyzero listeners, which is what we have. We're getting more, but I think we got to...

...go back to you just mentioned facebook. I think that we've got some like interesting debacle here of Victoria requesting a meaning with Centner about the case. She finally got her case and then here we are, and what is he bring out? He brings out a bunch of facebook messages. I know everybody's thinking. I'm thinking. Was The facebook messenger message in that stack of papers? You know, we don't know. Why wouldn't they say? I mean, for as far as everyone knows, it's fall because no one's retrieve that message. Right we is that as far everyone knows? I would assume the shows by now would have. They didn't say what the message was it coming about? And right they didn't say that before. All we know, the message could be completely unrelated. Would be like Christina, let your compic then we got out of bed. Yeah, for re or, and then he ran to the down trade. No, John Smith added to his story. Yeah, most for a while now, but we don't know. I mean it looks very, very suspicious, and so we would love to know what it is and there are people in various different facets work to get that. But I mean one thing. Did he sell jewelry on facebook? I know that selling things on facebook is popular. MEETUPS are popular, ports pickups are popular, but could it be an item that was considerable amount of money and which would be stupid to do it too in the morning? But I mean we you guys say like he didn't want to to know where he lived, like I'll meet you here. If you listen to Victoria, he sold jewelry two stores. So that doesn't seem likely. But we do have information that he did also carried jewelry and try to sell it privately. Right, that does the only never mind. Right, yeah, I mean I think that. I think, I think that he did sell some jewelry on the side a little bit. Now we don't know if he's sold it like to jewelry stores resell. I don't know we should put that in there. We can go up to the facebook part. Okay. So you know, the interesting thing is is the sheriff's office brings out facebook message. Now I think this is before Victoria has realized that the message I got bran out of bed was we believed to be a facebook messenger message. The question is, is in that stack? And so I reached out to Victoria this week and asked her, you know, like is there a chance that it would be in there, and she said she really did not believe. So. They didn't cover every detail of it. They more just had like a print out version of mostly facebook posts that he had. And she's like why already know this stuff? I'm friends with them because he's my spouse, you know, and so from my understanding, and I just wanted to provide clarity, that was not discussed in that meeting about that facebook messenger message. Nor do we have any evidence that they had that message at that time. We got to talk about Michael Taylor and that interview was so clutch that we were able to snag and so thank you so much. My goal for coming forward. But that timeline fits with settner's timeline. As far as the car right, yeah, he's so. Like Centner said in his timeline that Brian mccron arrived at one hundred and fifty the morning, and that part we got some conflicting information on. And then, according to David Sentner, they have video of we still don't know if they have video Brian macground camera or with a vehicle there. Brian mcgron was driving leaving the township Paul at about six hundred and twenty four a, he said from multiple sources. So it sounds like there's a couple different cameras. That's all. Yeah, and we don't have access to the cameras. And from even Paul Hartman, I haven't heard and he's very thorough with what he's investigated so far and I gotta I got to give a shout out to Paul Pause. Definitely been spot on with everything that we come up with and stuff we come up with. He is right there with you know he already he hasn't his notes and it's amazing, but he keeps being prune right. Yeah, absolutely, but we haven't found the video. So we would love to see the video. So if you're out there and you're listening to us and you provided video, we want to see it and we would love to know if you can truly see Brian in there or if you can just see a block Chevy Equinox, because that makes a huge difference in this case, because we know muliple people have Chevy equalox has that are black that in that could really actually like tie somebody, even else involved. We really are multiple trustees have had the same excite car for a while and we brought this up in the last episode and again. Even if it ended up being my costose...

SUV, doesn't necessarily mean anything other than we have to roll out that evidence right you know, and I and I agree with that right now. But we do have more information coming about that SUV and just stay tuned because there's information. You guys be the judge. You know, we try to be as impartial as possible. So what about Michael Taylor's account of that person? So when I was looking at this and mapping this out, I always pictured they would walk North on beach head boulevard because it's a flat ground area and it goes directly out towards Chippewa all road. I always kind of figured that's the easy way in and out. But Michael Taylor's account is this guy went south, which is a hilly train which heads towards the abandoned amusement of park which had towards multible houses and he wasn't dressed like for the weather at all, probably heading to a car, you know, and which is interesting because I mean I okay, you could cut possibly along the shoreline's going to be very kind of treacherous right through there, and then cut possibly through the abandoned amusement park. But then also, like Michael Taylor's account of the gentleman that was looking in the car that then walked towards the band amusement park, did not fit the description of Brian macron. Right, no, and did not have the clothes on that Brian Macron had when he was found in the lake. Right. Right. So clearly a separate person. And then we got to talk about Victoria's account of this interview with Michael Taylor. We believe had another gentleman that they saw around a you shed, right, and that fits with early witness accounts that we received that a person was seeing near the car and behind the shed. So that would be at least two people there at the scene, right, and I guess somebody came forward to Victoria macrant at the lake one, I think for the polar beer jomp right, and told them the family member had seen that. Yeah, and now I was hinging on that part of the interview right where Paul Stops Victoria about this other eyewitness that we can't we don't know about, but obviously it's a huge eye witness that Paul and Victoria found while before us, and you asked if they vetted it and Paul said yes, it's good information. So we don't know and I'm excited you know that they have that information. I wish that I knew it. If I knew it and I was allowed to share with you guys, you bet you, you know, we'd be sharing it. But, and let me speculate real quick and we can see what where this ends up being. But the way that Paul jumped in and said don't go there, don't go there. It's good information. We can't talk more. I wonder if that witness is involved in something legal. That is tied up right now and must be something big. I mean, he didn't even want us to catch window. Now what we do know, and I have got Paul's promise, that when this is all done, you guys have got to come back and listen because we're going to be putting more episodes out. We're getting people that want to talk. We got people that want to talk after this election. We've got people that want to talk after the case is closed. We've got big sources that want to talk and they're dying to know and just to connect the dots there. Again, remember we're doing a small town cold case which has sort of tend rolls leaking in to the upper echelons of local politics here. So we kind of have to wait till things settle down after the November general election before certain people are willing to talk to us. So stay tuned. And then also whenever this all wraps up, we would love to do an extended interview with Paul Hartman and just to get his take on this and kind of hear if he can tell more about the things that he right now has to limit himself on. Yeah, absolutely, and our goal is never to be in the way of the investigation. We've got to talk about the rat, the cloth that had other DNA. Now we remember Settner's statement, which Paul now is saying that he just straight out lied. Maybe he didn't have the information, I don't know, but we've got other DNA in that office on a cloth close to that utility sink where blood was found. That has other DNA. And what's so what's the verification for this, though, right now? Are we just taking Paul's word, which is good word, but are is that what we're going with? I mean, does anybody else have any other information on this case they want to share, because we'd love to hear it, but this is what we got, you know. So there's other DNA now we do know, which we can't talk about yet, but we know that there's activity in the case. So we know things are moving. Obviously the doing things are happening. This would be you know, this could potentially be huge with the DNA, but Paul put like a...

...big dent in the whole sheriff's department ability gathering DNA and keeping it if when he talked about how, when they were collecting DNA samples from various people, whoever was administering the test never changes gloves and so all that was contaminated. So part of me is hopeful that this will be the nail in the coffin for the killer, but the other part of me is thinking like, well, where they, if they were indeed that sloppy? Where they sloppy with this piece too? I didn't mean to like kill it. Everybody feel defeated. This could potentially be huge, this could be the thing that ties the killer to the scene and to everything. But it yeah, and it may go without saying, but I'll say it, if there is another source of DNA at the scene, that is huge, because the whole official storyline is there's one source of DNA, no one else was there. You're supposed to let your mind conclude that he somehow did this to himself, whether it was suicide or accident. So if there's another sorts of DNA and that just proves what we've been saying this whole time, that he met his end in another way, by another hand, sure right. You can't act alone, as I'll quote center you know, and have to DNA's at the crime scene. Okay, let's go back to the interview. We're going to play from where we left off. Remember, Paul Hartman is talking about how Brian macran started the open check book for the townships funds and how is there money missing? There's a question about it. It's a question about why they took the open check book down for a while when in two thousand and sixteen, all of a sudden they quit posted. In Two thousand and sixteen. You know why I wish I did know. I but what certainly suggests to me is that they son financially regularity there. That's what he see us to me. So under during two thousand and sixteen, when Brian was alive, this stopped going. Somebody put an end to it. Well, somehow. All I know is I um going on the website and they were posting to it and they made a big deal in the news media, the local and I use that form real loosely. How this is going to be great, is transparent, it's wonderful, but in the year two thousand and sixteen when all of this happened, you know, at the end of it, you're see no posts in two thousand and sixteen or thereafter. Comment was made there's no money missing. Yeah, well, why would you even say that when that's not an issue? You know what I mean? Yeah, no, it did's kind of like you're trying to do what causes me to suspect and said there's money missing. Hey, and Brian possibly knew about it. Is that a good w yeah, yes, yes, yeah, but obviously, Victoria, you don't. You don't know anything about it. Come him right now. But a possible definitely something too highly considered you know, the other thing I thought was interesting. I'd reading. Let me just let me just say this. So you know, somewhere along the line, and someone told me that Brian was looking at the at the township's books. Right, yeah, the end of the year and yeah, right away. Then you say, well, did he discover something that was sufficient enough, because someone to want to kill him, the expectation of that information would need someone right, that's certainly a plausible fear. Right, with that information, it seems to be uncased by the fact that they could using that Ohio check book in Two Thousand and sixteen whish. Of course we be. The series of transactions in question is, in fact they were ready questionable. So who had the choices to use it or not use it? was that just through the trustees, or is that through it would be through the trustees. Through the trustees, it was just an elective service I believe you could sign for. Yeah, it's no, I don't think there's any statutory requirements that they use it. It's just he knew about it. Hey, this is a great way for a township to, you know, beach. It's time to the rest of us. Yeah, exactly know, why not transparency is the key there. HMM. Yeah, interesting. So there's a lot of stuff going on in the township right around them. You know, actually there was a big there was a vote. There was supposed to be a vote for something to do with the typeline a few days after Brian had gone missing. Yeah, just the trustees vote.

Yeah, how is it Brian going to vote? Did he ever tell you if he was forward or against it? He was against it, but I see the only one against it was going to be in our backyard. Who wanted going through your back here at and what would be the benefit for someone wanting it? Well, other money. Pipe Line also raises an interesting issue because you know that bowers was the inspiration of the local committee to evaluate the effects of the pipeline on the community for the county and as it turns out, her own brother profited handsomely because they put the compressor station on his own farm. I'm about that. It's convenient that I had to go just there. Huh Yeah, well, when it also went through the the township and the country club is some of that property that the bowers live on was dated to the country club years ago so that they are lifelong members because they gave up property to the country club to be built and to develop. So when they came through with the pipeline, it did go through the country club and I believe you're part of what would be their property. So naturally it's all money. Yeah, when pipelines come through, I've done research on it as well. When pipelines develop in any community state, they look where the infrastructure is weak and they they they don't just come through a state and make a straight line. They always curve it. You'll see on any pipeline map it's curved. It's where destructure. Green or perfect example, was a county of green that those residents fought it, fought it, fought it, fought it and then when the pipeline came back and said Hey, we're going to give you x amount of millions of dollars, oh, miraculously, now the judge is all approved it. Oh, okay, they can come through now the city of green, which they fought it for so long, but when they were turned over to say hey, we're going to give you x amount of millions of dollars, they took it, they did it and they took it. Same thing with Medina or Lafayette. They were looking to build the new fire station, another issue, another issue, and that fire station was going to be built on Innovation Park, which the pipeline would be running through Innovation Park. And there is township meeting minutes. How accurate they may be, but they said that they at Linda made reference. I believe it was like, I can't remember the month, October, November. He made reference to the pipeline coming through there and it was going to be too close to the edge of where the building was going to be built. And she makes reference and said that's okay, I think we'll be able to work with them and they'll be able to work it out. Oh, so you's going to go to them and say hi, I'm lind of hours and I'm just going to work this out with you so we can still have the pipeline through here? What she makes difference from that? Yeah, but she also makes reference on we have no say over what the pipeline does. Also made that in the later minutes I read. Yes, so those if you look, she says, Oh, I don't think it's going to be a problem, will be able to work it out. Oh really. Well, you know the Lt well, when the the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission finally endorses the thing and can put the final stamp on it, then it's a done deal. But you certainly have the ability to negotiate what one, where and how until that's finalized. So that's where she was in this thing. Yeah, and apparently she got what she wanted and probably reap the benefits of it because the fire station is built. Yes, yeah, so fair type black is moving forward. Yes, that raises another issue here with that fire station. You know, they built a new fire station right on what they called innovation part correct or your what you reference as the Albatross. Right. Yes, absolutely,...

Boy, there's a bunch of shady dealings around that. But yeah, I do know in interviewing, and again, you know, I interviewed people like to share a stuff, as didn't, and a person I interview told me that that Brian Bill, this person, you could believe all the bribery offers he was getting in connection with that fire station. So now now you got to say, well, if you become aware of bribes other people book and that was the motive for someone to want to eliminate them because he became aware of that. You know, those are crimes. Right, right. So what about you? What about such a days? I'm awful conduct. Yeah, can corrupt conduct. You know, where do you start, right? I mean, and I'll you started the beginning and you look at all of it. Yeah. So, so where was Brian with, as far as it stands, for the fire station? was he a prowers? He against? Was All trustees for it? No, was bowers. was US started out when they when they first put it on the ballot. It failed and Brian said, I believe that we need to see then what the fire station at Wedgwood and the fire station on which would where the administration building is, hmm, or the town hall it was. It was. It was fine pride in the age, thirty, forty years ago, but it was a cinder block building. They didn't even those firemen didn't even have enough room to have storage based next to the fire trucks. There was no room to move once they got out. There was no place to show hour after so these guys are going home with, you know, soot on their clothes and you know, contaminates, taking it home to fan. I mean, there wasn't it wasn't feasible. What they find now. You know firemen need that. They shouldn't be going home with that on their clothes. They shouldn't be breathing that in. Just a little bit of updates. While Brian said, we don't have to have the Taj Ma Hall, we're not asking for that, but we're asking for a place that is more pass to what, you know, what their work is and what and how they should be, you know, treated when they come back from a fire. These are these are residencies are. You know, he saw need for it, so he went out when it failed the first time, he went out with the fireman and went door to door, passed out fire said you know, here's some information, just read up about it, you know, just kind of gave them the knowledge that the residents didn't have prior to the first vote. And the second time they put it on the ballot and Linda said, look at the residents have spoken. They do not want it, so we're not building it and verying. So being for and I'm going to help the fireman and we're going to go out and we're gonna, we're gonna, you know, give the residents to knowledge and let them vote again. Maybe they didn't have the knowledge they needed the first hold. So that's what his thought was. It did pass the second time. And who took all the credit? I'm guessing bowers. He had a three P seval covered in gold standing outside Innovation Park and took the first shuttle with the other two trustees. And guess who she appointed as the second trust or the trustee when Brian went missing? WHO's that? The Guy who did the search dog? Oh, weird, interesting. Now let me just guess who see a pointed now let me just jump in here for a moment and let you know that after I got into this, none of them at the township would speak with me because fellow bowers, the Goof of the butle secretary, hmm, none of them. So you guys, don't forget to tell them not to. That's what I mean. So what are they trying to conceal here? Right, yeah, somebody died, I died. So don't you think he would want someone to figure out who killed your colleague and I? I had to call Linda Good Day Brian went missing. Her that the next day when I drove past the town all I had...

...to call Linda and ask her to put missing information on the Marquis for the township building. Oh my God this but the church right down the road are had that done right. I mean, don't you think someone must goes, goes to missy? Don't you want all hands on deck? This is like, this is this is serious, especially, you know, if if they had no knowledge of what happened to your husband, they might be concerned for their own safety because nobody's knowing what was going on. But there weren't. There's a curious thing about that. To talk about the Cristello car, Oh my and Mike and Brian drove the exact same car, like the Chevy equation. It was exactly the same. Okay, so there there was reference. Bryan had said at times, like people would confuse them, like they go down the street and think it was Mike or Brian, Mike Costello. I got a call a few days after Brian went missing, crumblind of ours saying did you hear what happened to Mike's car, and I said no, she was Oh yeah, his grill was kicked in and the tires were Huh, I believe like on that Saturday. Okay, so he went with Briana, miss he on a fry called me, she called me Sunday morning and said that his tires were slashed in the front girl was kicked in and I first he said to his car, and I when she said Grill. I said grilled, you mean as grilling as back yard? She goes, no, the grill on the car. I'm like Oh, so, yeah, she said to grill and the tires were slashed. And then when I went down early January to hang signs at Spaua Lake, I said something to Mike. I said, Oh, I heard about your car and the tires and he said, Oh yeah, he says, I don't have that car anymore. So did drive sister and I begged and pleaded with Captain Centner that you need to look. You need to look at everybody, but you need to look at the car. Brian was with my hmm I al was with Mike the Night of the movie. I don't know who drove, as they drove together. I don't know if a drow separate, but you need to look at that. And now to come to find out he got rid of his car. How soon after did get rid of his car? That did you know of like with them going on? Within a month because polar their jump was at the end of January. This happened December, so within that time. December sixteen, so within that time. So then jump. So we haven't even be enough time to fix the car really. So that wouldn't even be enough time to really fix the car if it was, if it was dented in and kicked in like at ant the police report? Okay, there was a police report made because I wanted to know for his tires in the front grill, but I don't know. Did he make a claim on insurance? I have no idea. Did you guys ever have any property damage or vandalism during this time or before it, or did Brian ever mentioned that anyone was like following him or, you know, dy'sy getting confused with this guy before you know. But I remember across from the Dinah Country Club, they're building those new homes now and I knew that was in the works at the time, but that right there along that line, it's directly across the street and it runs like from their driving range all the way up to Ryan Road and it was yeah, they start cutting down all these trees and knowing Brian was against the pipeline, I'm like we don't want that in our backyard, like that's horrible. Like you know, honey, some people overlook at they don't think, they don't care. They have a new house. Who Cares? It's a pipeline whatever. But the three mile radius you're considered an incineration zone. Yeah, broke Er blue, you'd be gone. And you know we're pretty close. And I remember driving one day and I said, Brian, Oh my God, look at all those trees. What is going on? I go, is that the pipeline? Because I don't know, I don't...

...know, I don't know what they're doing. I don't want to talk about it. HMM. And I just thought that was weird, like I was trying to recollect things or think of any and I just remember him saying that I don't know, I don't know what they're doing. Well, I guess what it is. That's what it was. Now, how many, four years later? Yeah, that's exactly where the pipeline runs. They've already put it in right right, which is right where the fire station was, which is where the that land that the fire station sits on was given by the county. Right. Yeah, interesting. And and what now? The question that going back through and looking at it when they were trying to pass the fire Levy without knowing exactly where the the pipeline was going to be. was that like some contention with some of the residents and stuff? was that you're trying to get a building built with not even necessarily knowing exactly where it was going to go because of the variation of the pipeline? Oh Yeah, yeah, a lot of the residents were trying to fight it. Yeah, so that you had residents that could be very upset because they don't want a fire station and they also don't want a pipeline, and both of them are happening at the same same time. Huh? Now, let me just circle back to the car for just a moment, if you will. Yeah, it just seems rather coincidental that as soon as this think the event happens with Brian, all of a sudden pastello claims claims his cars vandalized because he drives the same kind of car. I mean, you certainly looks suspicious to me, as if he's trying to allay any suspicion that might fall on here. You know. So you did it to my car, do you know what I mean? In other words, you might have been a target of some sort of retaliation as well. It's just seemed rather odd. But he was finally the Brian Right. Brian and him got along, though. Okay, Brian would say that obviously was Linda's pup if he had made reference to that, and only because it. When I would ask him about how a meeting, when or how a vote, when he goes, oh, she's mad at me. Well, and that's how that whole puppet thing and you know, well, Mike's her puppet. You know, whatever Linda wants for Mike, Michael Do and I think we could infer they were best buds. No, no, and there if there were times when Brian would say, you know, Mike would say, Oh, you know, the fireman can't do this, the fireman are talking to me like this, and brank goes really, Mike, you're a growing adult. Get over it. Grows some balls. Yeah, it was to the point where stop being petty and ridiculous. You know, run the township, do what we need to do. And because what? So someone's talking about you. Who Cares? Like we think if anybody was friends with the fireman would be him, right, with this background and everything? Yeah, Oh, yeah, Huh, but I don't. I don't think he was. I think too they realized it was probably a conflict. You're a trustee and you're a firefighter. There's kind of like a Brian didn't go and be part of the school board because they said how can you ask for someone's vote for taxes or that, but you're in the township working and asking for money? Yeah, but yet you know it's a conflict of interests for the schools and for the to be a town trustee, while I would think that would be the same as a firefighter and being a trustee. But they let him do it for however many years. Yeah, I think that's changed now. I don't believe he's a fireman any longer. But he also does work for Linde bowers reality company and they're kind of incohoots almost so bright. So obviously out of the trustees, if you're isolating them, you know Brian would be the one that died. Man Out. Yeah, and now all through trustee sound like they're all in the same you know. So they replaced Brian with someone who you know is yes man, likes to have people work with her that think the same way and that she can manipulate. That's what it sounds like to me too. So who going to enter...

...person that? There's more than enough suspicion to go around in this lea. When Brian was found, for going back to the first meeting that I ever held with the sheriff's department, I would be the first to know I was not notified by anyone at the Sir's department the day my husband was found. Who notified of ours called me. Wow, when the hours called me at work. My children are seeing it on twitter, on the news of the flyovers from Channel Eight. They're all seeing it on the news and I'm still sitting at work. Oh my goodness, that's terrible. I'm sorry. So, yeah, they call. She called me and said now, Victoria, don't be alarm, she said, but we're all down at the lake and I'm speaking. What are you? What are you doing at the lake? And I'm his spouse. Well, we don't know, but we're all down here and I just thought you would need to know. I said put the Syrup on the phone now. So at this point you stopped keeping Linda close right. Oh yeah, so all guys, so you started off doing that, then you realize this isn't right. She's got her hands and too much stuff. She could even be a part of why your husband's missing. Correct. And why? Why would she make reference to the guy who was first of all, she's going to keep it secret, like she's doing me a favor. She's going to keep it secret to do the dog search. And then when I find out from the dog search guy that everything Linda was a conduit, everything went through her, well, my red flags go up, like, whoa wait a minute, you're telling me you don't want to share this department. You know, but then you're not keeping me a prize. It's only what you want to know. So it's only benefiting you. But there's something comes out of it and they find something. That, when does going to look like the hero, because he she had the dog search guy. So did we know like any kind of reason why she would want like scent of your husband's clothes or event for using dogs to find them? Yeah, no, I mean that's what they that's just what he told me that I needed to bring. And then when I went to pick them off, she has two dogs. She had a mut dog and she like a little mud and then she had like like a mixed free kind of like a not a Collie, but like a maybe like a lab collie mix, something like that. A big dog and and it was an older dog. I went to pick up my husband's clothes. They were in her living room, open face, with the dog all over them. They weren't even sealed up in the bag how I gave them. She's letting your dog like lick on and like smell. I'm thinking, where is the respect here? Respect, and also, you know someone else was to do a dog search. You know, your best clothes with this scent on it. We're compromised right, yes, you. I still have those preserves. That be'St. I could. I took them out of the bridge bag when I came all and put them back into black BAGGIES and they're sitting here. But still she she compromised all of that and it's just not even com it was like the respect. That absolutely it's very disrespectful, very disrespectful. You want to talk about what what she told you wouldn't want to see her at the day. That the scene. She was looking for a secret of that craft. Oh yes, she said she was looking for a secret note in the office. They told me. I need to come up there. I was looking maybe like for a secret note or something, and told her to come up there with her scene. And this is only this is only substantiated by her telling you right, no one else is that. Yeah, we told her to come here. Yeah, HMM, sounds very fishy, doesn't it almost sounds like she kind of planed that whole idea that he went to California, doesn't it? Or not? All right, and try to make it look like it was something for work. Hmm, almost like the mislead in a way. Everybody mislead. Everybody in this thing flies one way or another. They're all lying. Yeah, that's why I read flags. You know, when you're you would...

...seek we would be working together at this point. Once the world be out, once you would want to work together. They should be using me as a resource to say, Hey, what was Brian wearing? What's Brian's height? What's Brian's wait, I had Brian's weight. Don't forget. If they have the he had three weeks written down because they're doing a weight loss challenge. He took my scale up to the township. All do you use? So I had the way, the exact way in his closet. Yeah, no one ever asked me. She calls me the day off. She calls me. Who Are you? Who Are you? You? You're not anything to do with the Saros Department. You're why are you calling me? WHO's this that's calling you, Linda? It's making me to say we're all down at chip a lake. Do you want me to have them send a car? I so put the sheriff on the phone right now. He gets on the phone and he says not center. It was Miller, but he hadn't been a part of this the whole time. I mean he was like behind closed doors. I don't know where he was. He's ahead there right. Yes, yes, yes, so Miller gets on the phonies like yes, we're down at Chippawa. Do you want me to send a car? I said get a car here now. So I waited and I waited and I was in the call way of the Court House and I waited and I said, you know what, screw this, I am not waiting. I have waited so long for these idiots. I said I'm doing this myself. I went out, I got in my car, I turned my flashers on and I flashed my brakes all the way to Chippawa Lake. I mean people knew like something was an emergency. They were moving over for me. Yeah, and I drove like a bad out of hell to Chippawa Lake. I get down there, I drive up on someone's law because it was like nowhere to park. I just drive up, I sat my car, I didn't even turn the car off. I ran out of the car, greeted Captain Centner, thinking, okay, does he have something for me? Can you tell me something? And I go up to him and he walks me back to the car. Wow, but bowers can be as walks me away from the scene. But everybody else is there, every trustee, all the sheriff deputies, president, thorough standing around. I wasn't allowed my phone. Froze I was getting so many calls my phone would not work. Oh my froze up. I was in the back of the car with one of Brian's friends. Our kids went to school together, because he saw me down there and he was comforting me in the back of my car because that's where sent nor what he's like, you know, you don't need to be here, and I'm like, need to be here. What are you talking about? They they like kept me in the back of the car. Wow, unbelievable. I never to this day have seen my husband or identified my husband. Wow. So who identified him? I don't know. Probably Linden bowers on the word. Yeah, yeah, to this day. Wow. And and I talked to the funeral home and he said, you know, honey, I don't think you'd want to see him. I said, I'm not saying I had to physically see him look at him, but I was going to use my brother in law to walk in with me and even if I could just put my hand on him and not look at him. Yeah, but no one gave me the opportunity. I'm so sorry. See, actually got in my car that day. She drawing me to her house and she told me it was Bryant. You need to know this and you need to hear it from me. It's Brian. I'm aliv. She told me and her house said I don't know where I need to go, I don't know if I don't know what I should do, I need to be there for my kids can see me do house that are parking on her house and made me sit there in the back of back of my car. And then the his friends sat...

...with me, had comforted me, and then she says, well, you can stay here. The corners going to come talk to you and see. I didn't. I never met her before. And Oh my God, awful, awful. She came around the corner and had her fingers straight out pointing it in my face, going you, you, I'm gonna tell you right now you need to be strong, you need to be strong, and I looked at her I said you don't know, you don't know how strong I can eat. I said, I will find out who did this. I will find out. Wow, how agreed it buy a corner and Magina county and this is crazy. This is Lisa Darnet right the Oh yeah, I waited at least. And then when the bowers husband goes up and grabs McDonald's and wants here eat something. You need to eat. What eat you think? I want to eat? McDonald's? Are you disgusting? This is like, this is like, yeah, he's trying to give me McDonald's. Wow. And then finally, it must have been I at least forty five minutes, or seemed that my friend's husband I we were sitting in the box seat and finally she said, Oh, the shris on his way and stiff comes and he looks around the carn. He goes hello, it's Brian and he leaves. He didn't offer any words of comforter or anything. No, no, not whatsoever. We just gave you this most devastating news, so you can give you. He barely looked at me, kind of bent down in the back of the car. He goes, it's Brian. Wow, and this isn't this? Is that Linda bowers house, in her drive in her driveway? Yes, and when I pulled in, the corner was there. The why? I don't know if the corner was there because I didn't know her, but I knew the prosecutors. He was there. He was standing there. which, just to be clear, Linda bowers home is on Ryan Road, Right Ryan and Wedgwood road. She owns the farm. Yeah, I kids used to work at the farm, my daughter's pen and her fans, but there's no reason that this should be happening at her house. Right. No, weird. So, so that happens now? Did it? Jake in the back seat of the car with you? Yeah, yeah, my husband's friend and from he our children were friends. He has a son and I have a daughter and they were friends in high school and then Brighton coached freshman football with them. I was just trying to place the people that. Yeah, so then you know. So this is February twenty one of seventeen. That's happened. The march eighth was the funeral, right correct the what happened in between that time? To any contact with the trustees? The Sheriff, they called me that night, the sheriff, the prosecutor. The Sheriff, the Prosecutor and the corner called me that night and she said I can I give you a lot of information, but there were stab wounds, she said. And the prosecutor said to me, I'm going to get you a victims advocate. I'm going to get your victims advocate through Madinah County, and I said, okay, he said, we'll be in touch and I'll get you that. He never got me that. So you never gotten the victims advocate? No, no. So I had someone, one of the guys that worked at the new station with friends with someone Brian Soul Jewelry, to a nice he called and he said, you know, I really heard about what a great guy your husband was. He said it really hit home because I know down on her husband and Brian Soul jewelry to them and they said, you know, what a great stand up guy like, what a good feel like. They he just had so many nice things to say. And he said, you know, were you ever any mentioned it? Where...

...you ever given a victims advocate? He goes, you know, I've heard a lot about Madinah County and stuff. Did you get one? And I said, well, funny you say that. I said I'm not going through Medina County, I don't want to go through, and he goes. You know, I have someone that works in some if you would like, I could call Summit County and see at least it's someone that you could talk to and you know. And I said yeah, absolutely, so I did. I met them and I went to Akron. They were they met me at the Akron like a couple floors above the police station, and I went down there a few times and talk to her. So yeah, he never came through on any of it. He they wouldn't release the autopsy to me. Channel three trips suing them for it. I went to the hearing for that through call yer. Why? Can't think why. Why wouldn't they give you the autopsy? Why? Why are they covering that? Releasing the preliminary autopsy? There's a long delay there. Yeah, it was a very long delayed channel three new canal trees like this is not they do the law, they said, and I had I had a statement from one of the county commissioners that said they knew that. If they got the she said, the forest consit, the autopsy, even the polymary autopsy, in hand, then they had to release it to the public. So He, I'm guessing, was kept saying no, don't release it to me, he didn't need it, because he didn't want it to be released to the public, and they kind of I went to the court hearing between tylier and the channel three when they came to court and I said in the back of the room it was someone from the Post newspaper, someone from the gazette and myself, and how your came out from behind chambers and he said he looked right at me, hecause, I'm sorry, who are you and pointed to me across the court room. I stood up, I said I'm Victoria Makarn and he said, Oh, oh, okay, I just wanted to make sure you weren't in the wrong court room, because you know, there's a lot of hearings that go on in here and sometimes people get confused where they need to go. I said, I'm not confused where I need to go. I know I need to be here, and you also work in this courthouse, right, yeah, and I work there. And he said, Oh, yeah, yeah, no problem. Okay, have you met him? Have you met Jemaller before? Know, and then I sure he sees me around there. I don't know, but the so then as the court comes out, they interduce sachs part, you know, he stays who's in the court room for the record, and and all of a sudden he's like, Um, we need to go behind closed doors, we need to go into chambers for a little bit. And I thought with heat a minute, this is a public hearing. What are they going behind chambers for? So I saw the girl pick up her machine, you know, for the small this is whatever, yes, snographer. So I saw her pick up the machine and he goes in the backside. Saw, okay, I'm all right, like they're going to, you know, record all this or type it up. So all of a sudden I stood up and I thought, you know what, this is bullshit. I said, this is a public hearing. I got up, I started walking across the courtroom, almost up to the judges that's there or whatever, and I said I looked at the deputy jumped up because, Victoria, where are you going? You can't go back there. I said this is a public hearing. Either I knock on the door and I go back there or I knock on the door and they come out for you. And he said O, well, I'll go tell them, I'll go tell them. They'll they'll need to come out. I said, yeah, they need to come out. So a few minutes went by heat the judge was screaming and the girl even looked at me. It was something to the effect of how how can you say that? It's something about the report not being released. How can you not release it? It's public information. Is What we heard them screaming. I remember the girl sitting next to me looked at me. She goes, Oh, Ho boy, he is not happy. She goes, I've never heard him scring like that before. So shortly after that...

...then they did come out and the judge came up to me after and he said, Oh, I just want to offer my condolences. I'm very sorry. I said, I am too, and I said, and you know what I said, I have a very good attorney and I have an even better investigator and he goes. There's no doubt that you did interesting. So those were the last words. Yeah, interesting, and they kind of pay when I went to when I went to get the transcripts. Now, if she's at that stenographer's back there and she's she's, you know, taking note of everything that's going on. When there's an inflection in someone's voice or something, or just show anger, you put that. You know you you show that in there so you can get the feel of how this is going. Do you think that was in there? You know, you know she's too smart for that. You know she doesn't want to look way, you're sure, and she's probably entire his back pocket. Huh. Right. And then do you think that they would release, when they release see parliamentary autopsy, when they said they were going to release it the next day at like ninety they could come in view from like nothing. They can't take notes, but they can go out of the room, take notes, come back into the room, go back out, take more nupples. You can't just have like a note pad or your phone take notes as you're in the viewing? Do you think that they would have asked me? You know we're going to release this, but won't you like to view it first before we release it? You know, that's what I keep wondering, like, who were they trying to protect? So initially not releasing the autopsy the time. Maybe they're trying to protect you or your family, but it doesn't sound like that and seems like you do the last person they actually ever considered as far sensitivity or anything. But do you like protect it? It can't get any worse than it already was, like through anything. Like I said, that's the path I started to believe was okay, he ran away, because if he ran away, I know I could see him again. So it's like they wanted me to believe this and take me down this row because I didn't want the other past. Now we're at the other path and it can't get any worse. Right, so they're still not telling me. There's still why are you trying to hide the plumber back Tupsy, it's going to come out. Why are you delayning this? Right? And they kind of painted it from the media standpoint about the INPHETA means right, that they didn't know if it was he had in Phantoms in him or if it was part of like the Deacon position. He corrected herself after we do. We're leaving with the attorney and she said, Oh, yeah, she I don't honestly, I don't even think she knew how to read an autopsy report. She was going flip flopping on so and she actually keeps my attorneys to eye out of the power out of the Shear's department when we read that, when they were reading it, and she says, Oh, you know, I just want to correct something. She says, I just want to let you know. You know, he didn't have any feta means in his body. She said that is because of the decomposition that causes that. And I even asked her. I said, well, you said that there was. You said there was alcohol in his system. I said how much was there? Because I know Brian was not one. He never drink and drive. He had a best friend killed in a car accident high school and that was one of his biggest things. Even with our children, told them don't you ever ever get in the car if you've been drink candy. So Brian may have had a drink over a course of a few hours out there. So for them to say, Oh, yeah, he had alcohol, when I asked them they amount or the content, they didn't. They didn't tell me. So it probably didn't even register as a enough amount. and faith. Oh yeah, he was drunk. Yeah, right, more than that. How did she didn't even know how to reach feels. Oh, I don't know, I don't know that.

There was no percentage. And what else is I going to tell you about that? Yeah, she said it was part of the decomposition the alcohol. The body breaks down. Yeah, and so they couldn't rule, they didn't like say that this was a homicide. Right after looking at the atop it. It was just listed as undetermined, which your husband. I think you kind of talked about it earlier, but he was in the marines, correct special curses. So I mean it doesn't get any tougher than that. And it's somebody that knows how to use weapons, owned a gun. It seems so out of character for him for suicide. First of all, the secondly, usually people that own firearms, if they're going to commit suicide, use a firearm and don't do use a knife and leave them helps alive. I mean it just doesn't add up at all. Doesn't get up. It does not add up. Well, beyond that, just go with the fast. When the body was recovered, he had no water or foreign debris in the air way or in the lungs, which means that he was just these twenty wind in the water, which is kind of impossible. It's to do it to yourself. How you going to take anything into your lungs? Well, and if you stabbed yourself, you're going to have a trail to it. Right, so you should be able to find that as well. Right. Would he? Is there any kind of gain that? He would have had to have staged his own murder to your knowledge? No, like major life insurance stuff. No, no, nothing like that. Right now. Now, up. This is a homicide here in st question about it really looks like that. Yeah, we I. We agree with you. Just covering it for the listeners. See, they wouldn't even release like I couldn't get a police report, I couldn't get anything. So one time there was a small policy through the township that because he was a state employee, they you know, you have life insurance, like any job whatever, and I thought, you know, if I can't get a copy of the police report through them, I'm going to try to go through the insurance company, like I was trying to do a back door on everything. And I called the Insurance Company. This was through the township insurance whatever, and I said, you know, am I able to get a police report? And she says, you know, she goes. Let me tell you something, she says. I have done plea, I've I've seen police reports kinds of everything. She goes. I have never seen a police report so heavily redacted that I can't even read it. Really, yeah, she said. You know, it's nice. I would see like, you know, to protect someone and protect a name. You see it protected, like you see the name crossed out. She goes, this one is so heavily redacted that I can't even read it. Wow. So see what was son of red flags to an impartial person probably miles away those and never even really ca's. Yeah, thank you guys so much for joining us. That's going to do it for this episode. I'm going to be assembling the invisible ship's team tonight and we're going to be working on our reaction to the Forest Thompson press conference and what implications that means for the case being closed. You don't want to miss that. I'm going to hopefully have that out for you probably tomorrow or Sunday at the latest, so be looking out for that and, the meantime, reach out. You can contact us on our facebook, we are on twitter, we are on instagram. We have our own web page, wwtt invisible ships podcastcom. Don't forget to like and subscribe. Thank you, guys so much. We'll see you later. The invisible ships podcast is produced by invisible ships productions and Loucie. All rights reserved. For more information go to www belt invisible ships PODCASP dotcom.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (24)