Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 10 · 1 year ago

Murder Lake 5

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We interview an eyewitness who saw something very strange going on down at Chippewa Lake the morning Bryon Macron disappeared. We also hear a lot more from Paul and Victoria. Plus who said anything about missing funds? Find out!   

It's time for the invisible ship's podcast, where we talk about everything from true crime to the truly weird. We're going to jump right back into the Victoria macron and Paul Hartman interview. Yeah, we got a whole lot more coming from both of them. Plus we have an interview from a potential I witness down at hip of a lake the day that Brian went missing, and we're also going to cover some more about the next pipeline. It's some possible motives for the murder. So sit down, get comfortable and listen to this new episode of invisible shifts. Ready part that there was a couple that approached me and said is too afraid that night invisibles? Good coast. That was just weird to me. I said I didn't think nothing of it at the time, but now that all this is being circulated as like maybe I could have been something quiz a squots, I hear anything about a rag work seats or anything, but I heard that specifically come from that room. We are building a record on this show of everything that we know about the Brian Macic case and bringing you everything that we've learned. We want this to be kind of like a searchable database for anyone that is interested in solving the Brian Macro case, because the true ruth is undeniable, that a man from our community has died under very, very suspicious circumstances and that things are being held back from us. A woman is without her husband, these girls don't have a dad and everyone knows that there are things about this case that need to be brought forward, that hard truths need to be looked at, examined and revealed. So we are telling you what we know, from the facts to the theories, and getting as many interviews from the people involved as we can. Our aim is to be fair period. We are willing to talk to anybody that has anything to do with this case and let them tell you what they know in their own words, what they saw with their own eyes. Unfortunately, a lot of the individuals that we here mentioned in this program are either unable or unwilling to come on the podcast and talk to us. Now we would love to have some of the Laffiat Township Trustees on, like Linda bowers and Mike Costello. We really want to talk to the maintenance man who discovered that grizzly crime scene in the office and I personally would love to have forest Thompson and David settinger come on the show and talk to you. You know, one of the things that has been very exciting and very encouraging about doing this show is that together we are making things happen. You know, together we have a very loud voice because of all of our amazing listeners who have been sharing this show, talking about us on Facebook, rating us on itunes. We have had over twentyzero downloads in the last thirty days. Guys, these are the kind of numbers that are going to make the politicians take notice. I don't think it's just a coincidence that the Madonna County Prosecutor for Thompson is announced that he is going to be creating a cold case unit. Do you I mean? I'm also hearing about movement in this case at the state level, and we're not taking credit for all of this, or even most of it. That credit belongs more rightly to Paul Hartman, the web sluice, people like Cohen and, of course, Victoria macron for never giving up. It's been almost four years since Brian macron is disappeared. Victoria macron has lived through this nightmare every day, but she's not giving up and she is keeps pushing for answers and I think that every day we're getting closer and closer to finding out the real reason or reasons behind what happened to Brian Macron. Let's go over the Brian macron timeline. Everything that you're going to hear is actually on our web page at a visible ships podcastcom, with even more detail on links. Let's start with the last normal day of Brian mackron's life. That would have been Thursday December, the fifteen of two thousand and sixteen. Right. That was the night of the township officials party, sort of a Christmas party, at the winking Lizard Tavern in Brunswick. After the party we know that Brian Macron, along with fellow trustee Mike Costello, went to the movies together. They were seeing rogue one, the New Star Wars movie at the time, right. And so we learned from talking with Victoria that Brian's phone had died. So she got a message from Mike hostell on facebook passenger that she didn't realize she got until the next day, Friday December sixteen, two thousand and sixteen. Brian is home, he and his wife go to bed. Victoria remembers it being somewhere around one in the morning, right, and then at approximately two hundred and eight am, she remembers waking up to Brian Getting the message on his phone that caused him to leave and never return home. Right. And it was supposedly a FACEBOOK MESSENGER APP notification. Again, and we still do not know who that's from, and that is probbably one...

...of the most important clues in this case that, if in lennitz revealed, might might solve this absolutely. They should know that there is some controversy at this point in the timeline because according to Madonna County Sheriff's Department Captain David Settner, he has stated in a press conference that he pulled security camera footage from area businesses and presidents that show Brian macren arriving at the lawfiette township hall at approximately one hundred and fifty in the morning. That leaven at six hundred and twenty four. One thing, Danny, that people should note is that we never know if it if they identified Bryan as a driver or if they identified it by the license plate, because we know that he's not the only person with the Chevy Equinox. Right, I was going to say there's another township trustee with the same exact car in my costelios. So even if it's a completely innocent reason, there's no guarantee that that's him. So at thirty that same morning, a township maintenance worker comes into the office, finds the doors unlocked in the lights on. Very quickly he discovers that something terrible had happened there. He finds blood on the floor, the whole office is trashed and he finds Brian mackord cell phone. So we know that his first phone call wasn't to nine hundred and one when he discovered the signs of struggle and blood in the township office. Right. and listener should know that this part is disputed as well. We don't know for sure who he called. We think what happened was being friends with some of the deputies, he had deputies phone number in his cell phone, possibly Jim Sanford, and he reached out to him. Here's why this is important. Now, when ones are recorded, line calls to individual cell phones are not recorded. So we don't have that. You know, we can't hear what he was seeing, what he was feeling. I know, and I think you say this in the interview that we're going to be playing here in a little bit, but it's a shame that we don't have the nine one one call because we think that would probably reveal a lot about the state of mind at the time. But we have had some info that it may not have been totally unreasonable to not really be sure what happened in that room. And approximately eight hundred and forty one am that same morning, authorities uses the vehicles on star and they located parks roughly three miles from the office on beat side Boulevard, right in front of ship while like after they search the vehicle, they find blood inside the vehicle and any other searches that they claim they've done in the nearby area don't turn up any additional clues. Yeah, so channel Nineteen News and Cleveland asked Sheriff Tom Miller why there wasn't a more extensive search done of the area in the lake and he's quoted as saying that I think if we thought it was appropriate the time, if we found something that indicated we thought he was in there, that would have been done. So basically they didn't think there was any reason to look in the lake. And then brings us up to the drones, because while doing our research, we have uncovered that Brian Macran was actually the national sales representative for Vista Unmanned Aerial Systems Operating on a Civille Ohio, and they were the ones that donated the two drones that Madonna County Sheriff's department ended up with, which is so strange that it is so strange and it's so strange that this never came up in any of the research that we've looked at before and it's just a kind of a dark twist of irony or fate here. And who knows, it probably doesn't actually mean anything as far as this the mystery of his his disappearance and assumed murder. Yeah, but it's so weird though. It's so weird, just creepy. You should know that the drones that Vista donated to the sheriff's department had thermal imaging cameras. They could have been used to locate a body that was in the water. And and one of the greatest heights of irony, I think the last the last quote in that article, which is on our website in our timeline is from Brian macran and he says that this a does sell drones larger than the ones given to Madonna County and that these drones can carry a small payload such as a life preserver. It just that is strange any specially knowing how Brian Machron met his end, that he was in that like. So, on the subject of drones, on our best episode we talked about weather conditions and how that might have come into effect with the decision on whether or not to deploy drones by the Sheriff's Department. Yeah, and there came from a listener. She was kind of hypothesizing with US reasons why maybe the sheriff's department didn't send out a drone that day, and one of the questions that she raised was the possibility that the weather conditions were permitting drones being able to fly right. And so you did what you do and what we all do, is we researched, we went online, we try to find out what the weather was like at the time, which was a lot more difficult than we thought it would be. So we did what we always do when we hit a brick wall and we turned to our audience and you guys are the best. Vince is a meteorologist in Indiana. Thank you, Vince. Yes, thank you so much. She reached out and this is what he peaked showed us. So he said, looking at the morning of December Sixteen, two thousand and sixteen, from eight am to zero PM, the Max Wind Gust was four point nine miles per hour. Temperatures did not reach about fifteen degrees Fahrenheit at that location any time before noon. Right. And you know what I've was doing digital research, trying to catch up with events, and I found out that the average wind gusts or windspeed in Medina County, Ohio, is ten miles...

...per hour. So that was a blow average day, oh, a below average day, and it you know, it's just hard to imagine that a light breeze of four and a half miles per hour would prevent a drone from flying that morning. And if you want to hear the drone conversation again, it was on episode four of the Murder Lake series, right. But so we're still having a hard time figuring out why the sheriff's department didn't use the drones at Brian mcgreen them to find Brian macron. Let's move on now to Monday December nineteen two thousand and sixteen. Lafia township decides to do eight thousand dollars worth of redecorating and they bring in a painter named Brian Popovitch, and I think it's important to kind of remind ourselves how soon this is after the missing report and the office found in disarray. That is a really quick turn around on a basically a crime scene, right. I mean the blood is basically not even dried yet. But we do have an interview with Brian Popovitch and it's episode three. There's links again on the timeline here that you can go and listen to that interview, but what he says is troubling. So they pressed him hard to come in and by the time that Bryan popovitch came in, serve prooud already been there. They'd already remove the carpets in the furniture. Yeah, and just the kind of highlight takeaways from this is he finds blood underneath the sink and he found a bootprint that maybe had gone unnoticed by the earlier cleaners behind fire extinguisher. Yes, and we're going to be talking more with Brian Popovitch in this episode because there is something that was said by the investigator. Will get into that a little bit that he wants to corruct. So stay tuned. December twenty two, two thousand and sixteen, the FBI gets involved after Victorian macron calls them, and then following that, on December thirty one of two thousand and sixteen, Sergeant Jim Sanford, Brian Machron's friend and the guy that they trained to fly the drones, retires. He put in his two week notice the day Brian goes missing. Important to remember. And then we move on to January five, few thousand and seventeen, where the trustees put out a strange letter and they're kind of pre emptively shooting down possible motives. In fact, and in the letter again, is on our web page. Yeah, I think they would probably probably describe it as setting expectations and maybe trying to tap down gossip. Right, but they do say in this sticks out with everyone is rather letter, that the rumor that the township funds are missing his fall similar. There is no evidence to support the rumor that the nexus project is any way connected to Brian's disappearance. Strange that they preemptively put that out there. February twenty one, two thousand and seventeen, Brian's body is found in Chippawaw Lake by a kayaker. The body wasn't identified as Brian mackerd until the following day, February twenty two of two thousand and seventeen, and then things kind of go quiet until the preliminary report in April two thousand and seventeen of maccan's autopsy. That shows he was stabbed and that's where we get the six day AB wounds from. I just don't have a cause of death, but we know that it wasn't drowning, right, and I think it was at this preliminary report where they say all this stab wounds were kind of superficial. There was one that maybe could have been serious but would have stopped leaving with pressure apply, which kind of ally sticks out to me because that's assuming he's in a position to apply a pressure YEP. And then just kind of finishing up, the things that I found interesting were on October, seventh of two thousand and seventeen, the county grants an easement for the next pipeline. Yes, and you're going to be here hearing on this section the interview that we're going to plan today's episode. You're going to be hearing a lot about the next pipeline, even more to put them into more context and see why this really could be one of the motives. And we're going to just leave it there. I mean, there's a whole lot more to the timeline and again encourage you to go to invisible ships podcastcom to look at it, and we'll be filling into because we're learning new things about this case every day and that's why we're touching bass like this. We're going to keep doing that. Now, before we get into the interview, listen to this Promo from one of our friends. Hi, this is molly and cody, the host of over the fence true crime podcast. Please join us as we talk about true crime in the most normal place in the world, over the fence, to be specific, over our backyard fence. We're both MOMS of humans and of dogs. We live directly next door to each other and share many conversations about life and family, but mostly true crime, over our backyard fence and we invite you to come learn more about true crime and well us. We give a lot of attention to California true crime, but I'd ventured throughout the US and even across the pond, and plan to continue our world domination in the near future. Listen to US wherever you listen to your podcasts or give us a follow on instagram at over the fence underscore podcast. So grab a drink and talk with us over the fence. Hey, Brian, it's ricks. I'm calling Brian Popovitch, the painter, because we need to discuss the knife some more. His version of how the knives were discovered doesn't Mesh up with Paul Hartman, the investigator's version. Paul...

Hartman describes the knife is being retreat from a dumpster. However, Brian Popovitch was actually in the office when the knives were discovered and I'm going to let him tell you what he saw. Yeah, that's see. What I was there is about halfway through the day and somebody, I can't remember it was a younger guy, came out of that back room, there was a room to the left of the office, told something that I say. Within an hours later, cap came in, took stuff out of that room and I overheard them talking, saying it was a funch of knives and some gloves. I hear anything about a rag or receipts or anything, but I heard that specifically come from that room. So they came from you heard them talking about it from that room where you were. The items came from that room. Correct. Okay. And then the young guy was he do you think he was a paw enforcement or no, no, I think he was like a firefighter or something like that, or somebody that was in that. It's got to be at the maintenance shop. Okay, room now is that was always locked. We weren't a lot in there. Blah, blah, blah. So you're Brian is describing a small maintenance clauset that probably contained a slow think is being the room where the knives were retreats, and Brian was adamant that he was not allowed at any point to go in this room or see what was actually in there. They told you that you weren't allowed in there. I mean, did you think that was because it's part of the crime scene or just I just the usually have a room that's locked or anything like that. I definitely wasn't allowed it and it wasn't like taped off with crime scene tape or anything place that once. I was there, like I said, I mean he was bragging then this guy's brain about he just threw reporters off the property and we weren't allowed to have there. Are Not a lot to talk to any reporters and we were not allowed to talk or let anybody in. And you listen, you docked at all times. I remember you saying that you weren't supposed to. Letty went in. But so he actually instructed the door be locked at all times. It was locked. It's one of those doors that you have to there was no dole thing out of the lock and it's like a cue lock or something like that. So it was always locked. If he shut it locked, by okay. That makes sense. So what do you think about what Paul Harmon was saying? Like do you think that there could have been stuff coming out of the dumpster and that room, or do you think what he heard about remember a dumpster being close by? Was All all they on the other side of the gage to call the park and I you go past up billy left of building on the right and then you go to the back and that's where the town halls. That's where I painted. Okay, so, I mean the only dumpster that I remember was on the right side, but that was like towards the street. And one of the things we wanted to get clarification is he said it was knives right, not like plural, not single knife, there was knives, because he even said, because I asked, right, with the cops doing back here? I've already had six of old show where they come back for. At this stage in the game, all starting to get like, why are they all these cops Carol on paint? I stand to crime seeing this should be overdone with. It's what I was told him was over and done with. So why they continue coming to back? And he's like, all, they found some eyes back there, so they just took them and cry was just played off. Dumb found it, you know. I mean like all, they just count some stuff there, so they were just checking them out. But after you find out the guy was stabbed, yeah, more than just all, yeah, they found some stuff, they're just chucking it out. Is there anything else that we missed or that you wanted to clarify? No, that's about it. It's just I knowe that was like when I hurry I'm like, well, they were found to the left, because it was a big deal when that happened. I had I had stopped working. So that's all. That's I remember so much. I appreciate it, Brian Problem. You got anything else, you know how to get hold of me and I got any more questions, I'll let you know, but thank you very much. Okay. So, you know, after listening to episode for you know, I think there's definitely some things we got to touch on here. You know, right now would be a real good time to just spend a few minutes kind of unpacking some of the things that we learned of the last episode and do like a round table between myself, Danny and Darren. One is the height and waight. You know, this has been something that...

...is puzzled me from day one when I heard it. You know, why not use the driver's license height and wait the wallets in the office? It's where you found it. where? Where is two hundred and forty nine and two hundred and ninety were? Where is the discrepancy in that? And here's something that keeps striking me when I listen and re listen. What was his height? No one ever says, no, we don't know we know it's less than six one, but we didn't get that from Victoria. So just kind of an average guy, probably a little heavy. But you never you never asked the wife. You're there like you never asked the why? If you put this all together, you know, you have a driver's license, you a wife. Those are both, I think, to reasonable sources for putting on me. You got a figure like you're putting on a missing person's you know, like it's important to have a heightened way. To me, it almost makes me think that they're trying to make him bigger. And why would they want to make him bigger? I mean, you know, we'll let the listeners put that together, but we talked about like a larger bootprint, you know, a larger person. Is there a reason for that? Is that a correlation or is that just habits dance and just a just an Arrow? So you're talking about the pub a bitch interview that we played where he describes seeing these large bootprints? Yeah, yeah, and he said he wears a size like eleven and it was considerably larger than his shoeprint. Correct. Yeah, yeah, and I guess just wildly speculate here. Maybe that larger person's knew they're caught on camera and needed to have the victim be larger than he is. Is what you're kind of trying to say? I mean that that's where my mind goes. And you know, the other thing that like, I don't want to give it away, but there's also another part of this interview that's going to come up later where it's going to talk about, you know, like boots and what Brian was wearing and what's in the evidence. kind of a little sneak peak, you know. So just it just seems like they're there, there's some evidence that you know or the description of the person. You know they're Brian his size. You know, it just seems like everything kind of got larger to me. Yeah, and I don't know how much more to say and I give it away, but they do also seem to know more about the footwear and everything then they should for someone whose body they haven't recovered yet at that time. Right, right, which we'll get to in a later episode will recap this, but I'm I thought that was very interesting. But I think we got to go to the knives. Right. What's up with these knives? Are Do we have two different sets of knives that we're dealing with? Or is this the same knives that Paul is describing and also that Brian's describing from the paint that Brian the painter? And I mean when we did that first interview, Ricky, I mean, you know, I was so blown away by the scene and then I'm sitting back there listening to it again and it's like Wa wait a minute or we miss the knives. So I'm glad you got Brian back on. I you know, it's just it really makes you question that. I mean, you know it was that a murder weapon. I mean, either way you got blood, you got a sharp object, you don't, you don't get rid of it. which concerns we have about the search warrants? Like, you know, it doesn't seem like they were able to provide search warrants for what they've done when Brian, you know, when they were trying to look at his phone and go through his car. You know what? What concerns do we have with this? I mean it almost sounds like to me with this interview, like are we just even if we get the guy, he's going to walk because there's no search warrants? But where we at with that. The this is a place where I wish that they had gotten back to you after you reached out to them, because there's a couple times, like even in the previous episode, where she's talking about getting with Sheriff Sanford about the cell phone and how he wants another paper. Like she was very confused by that. But I wouldn't know if that's standard procedure or not for them to ask you to fill out a different form or two forms. You know what I mean? Yeah, and you know I mean shares office. This isn't something they do every day. So what if they had a wrong form? I mean that's another right that they're like, oh, take this one and get that one from her too. It does raise some questions about a lot of stuff that's going on in there. And here's something I want to float and kind of hear what you guys think. Victory mentions. I think in the previous interview and definitely in this interview that we're going to play today, that at first they were trying of really nice with her and then like the next day they started acting weird and doing all this stuff, and that's when she got suspicious and called the FBI but if you kind of try to imagine where the sheriff's department might be, did they start to suspect her...

...or at least wonder? You have to have people out, you know. I mean that's so you gotta you gotta take the people they are closest to them and really not trust anyone right, right, and that's I mean even the innocent people should want it to be that way too. But maybe that she just kind of got a little notice the change because they started to examine her and obviously it's four years later. I think they've cleared her by now. I'm sure they have, but that just want to explain some of the weirdness. I don't know, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around some of the you know, we hearing one side of a story and trying to figure out the whole story. Well, we're hearing, you know, one side of a story, which we really appreciate, but you know, we're also hearing one side of a story in the moment of the one of the most tragic points of her life, you know. So you know, when you put yourself in a situation like that, you think about what you're perceiving and how you're doing it, your emotions aren't really in check. You know, it's it's not human nature and be that way. Right. Good Point. Good Point, you know. So so perception wise, I'm impressed really at how much she's able to process through and handle. But we don't know. We know you're only given one you're only even one side. You know, I really hope that Sergeant Stanford was sincere and his email back that he was, as soon as it's wrapped up, that that he wants to have a sit down and go over his perspective, because I mean out of my you know. You know looking at this. I've had a couple people ask, you know, and this is you know, what would be your top if you'd interview like three people for this? You know you've been involved in about there and what would you interview? I I ain't Serge Stanford would be one of my three. You know, it's so you know, I hope that that we could make that happen when this gets wrapped up. So the other question about the sheriff's Office is what about how the prosecutor Forrest Thompson wanted to send evidence to somewhere else because of one person working from the sheriff's Office that now works up at the Rich Shield DCI office. What what concerns? I mean to me that's the Red Flo I heard that. That that flag. That really what we seeing? You know, Oh, that's to me. That's the opposite of a Red Flag. He's trying to avoid even the appearance of like selfdealing or whatever they would call it, like he's trying to get it out so there's no conflict of interest. But that's actually about the point. The thinning is. Well, yes, I agree with Danny, except for it was done at two thousand and eighteen, you know, over a year now. You haven't collected evidence since really February twenty one of seventeen. It wasn't transferred until April of two thousand and eighteen. So he's got a he's got thirteen months. That it's that for this this you know, conflict to happen. Yeah, but it's not necessarily CSI in Miami that we're doing with either. Like I don't know if that's slower fast honestly. And we do know some troubling things about the collection of evidence. Right when they went and decided to get the DNA swabs of the fire department. The deputy that was doing the swabs never changed his glove so contaminated all the evidence. You know, there's also been a history with BCI. Unfortunately there was a case where a lot of people's convictions got overturned because there were some funny business going on. I think that people have this idea from watching CSI that they're going to science the hell out of whatever evidence and find them murderer. And you relying on people who relying on honesty, relying on professionalism, and any time you're interjecting the human element into that, you know back and quoth the window quickly. And it's a government institution. I just think about in Ohio history knocked that long ago when they finally got the funding to do the rape kits. Like they went through like rate kids from years and years and years and years ago, like right, things just pile up, all these cold cases that sitting on the shelf from seventy nine finally getting done. Thinks it's interesting that, like the evidence wasn't processed untill month later that Victoria got back, that it wasn't tag it was tagged like in the middle part of January when he was missing in middle part of December. Let me take this, because the tagging on the sheriff's apartment makes zero sense. The ability for BCI to process evidence, if it's a thirty day leg wouldn't be that suspicious. But I mean, what else is Madiny I sheriff's apartment doing? Besides, if they're collecting evidence, why wouldn't they take it within thirty days? They would not that busy. Why wouldn't you take it like, you know, the day, I mean even within a week? We I wish we had someone could talk to. Yeah, for sure. I mean we definitely could...

...benefit from you know, just I mean, like I said, we could sit down with with Sanford. You know, I think that a lot of things that were suspecting. Could think is a whole other side to the store that we just we just don't have even totally like none classified or nonprivileged information, stuff, just like timelines of how police work works. Yeah, I think it would give us a lot of insight possibly answer some of the questions. Now, now I got I got two more things I want to talk about here. One is the he ran away. You know that at that a investigator said to Victoria. Also said in a news article that he assumed a new life in California. We there. Obviously he wasn't right because we found him in the like. But you know, this is not great. Central Station Lafayette count had a wallet and Cell Phone. There's discrepancies on how much blood was in the office, but if you've got blood and knives, you know why would you even? Yeah, it's the question, the thing outside the box, but this isn't just questioning it. This is almost like Miss Leading Victoria. I'm probably gonna regret bringing this up, but there was an interesting message that I received from a listener. I don't know what to do with this. Go for it, but since we're talking about it, the trustee that Brian macron replaced died about a day around, one day later or a day before Brian macron did. His body was quickly cremated and he weighs about as much as the exaggerated version of Brian mackron. Ways. I mean that would maybe fit in with assuming a new identity or something. I don't know. Like I said, I may regret bringing it up, but new identity Brian. I would assume Brian. I mean it doesn't make any logical sense. If you if you follow the steps of what would that entail? WHO, dude? Well, who identified Brian's body? Victoria didn't. She never saw ran. You know, they didn't understand him so that she wouldn't want assue him. Who identified it? His brother? We don't exactly know. I mean I think Darren did take a look at it, but I don't know that for sure. I'm trying to remember. I think. I think that was brought up and I think it was Darren. But if you're looking for something that points to and I don't like to use the word because I don't like to make allegations, but if you are looking for something that would point to some type of cover up, finding a bloody office in a cell phone and a missing car and find the car boy of the lake and then saying we think he went to California to serf. That sounds like you're covering something up. Did you run away? You know, I can picture that. I could picture that being a question to Victoria, like would there be any reason that he'd want to run away? But yeah, and how recorders get to it? Right, and a more noise and just one question, right, and if it was a clean office. But there's blood. Like, as soon as there's blood, you're not running away unless, like, you shaved too fast. Like that doesn't make sense. The one thing that I do wonder about, though, is, and this does not roll out homicide to me at all, but I think if you talk to like detectives and stuff, that it's seen a lot of homicides. I bet some are a lot less bloody than you might imagine they would be and some are probably a lot more bloody. But if it wasn't like a crazily buddy room, that might explain why the maiden's guy didn't call mine run one and why maybe it took aim while to figure out what happened, because if there's just a little bit of blood, maybe was a fistfight, you know, don't or if the killer took time to clean it up. I mean whatever vehicles that we have on surveillance, to the sheriff's apartment's claiming has on surveillance, arrived at one hundred and fifty and left at six hundred and twenty four. So if you are of that sounds right, but part of the time could have been cleaning it up. There is literally so much to talk about that this could go on forever, and I think that the best thing the two right now would be just to roll the interview from where we left off with Victoria Makrin in investigator Ballard. Let me just say something else here too, and that is that Brian spoke to at least two people with whom I've interviewed, and each of them suggested that Brian indicated that he could get these guns and guns from the sheriff's Office that were being surplused. Yeah, I read about that in your in the blood. So so what's going on? Are you? Yeah, we're recording. I was going to business for thirty years or longer, and those guns don't wear out and if an agency goes...

...from one brand of firearm to another, normally that the standard procedure is to simply trade them into the to the new vendor and they destroyed them. You know, competition. Yeah, SOB stuff is teams beat little to a spoon. That's some one at the scare off. This was offering him a deal on guns that I assumed likely came out of the property room. Okay, now when did you get that? When did you stumble across this? Oh, early on, early on, so possibly in then everything. Grand did you tell the cousin that I can get them that? If you need a gun, I can get them from the sheriff's well, I know he told Allen that. Yeah, Dren, that okay, you told his brother and who else? WHO's Alan, and one of his friends in Chicago. Okay. So, I mean it just comes from to independent sources, so it's reliable information. Yeah, and I saw on your blog that you put in a request to the sheriff's Office about this and they just kind of wrote it off, like what are you talking about us? They don't answer. They don't even even if the attorney would send a letter and asking. They've never spoonded. Okay. Well, I said to the chief Depebach. I don't know if he's still there not, but I sent a letter and he said I'd like to know this. Zero members of the guns you sold to Brian, and his response was we don't sell guns to the general public. Yeah, I read that letter from thank you very much. It's all I needed to know. That's right. What had brought what was what did the like Interviewing Darren? What? What did Darren have to say, you know, about like how Brian felt about it. Do you feel like it was kind of like a good spot to pick up a reasonably well built gun or what? He didn't care, he didn't have no interest there. I have an intern an interest. Okay, so we got we got these potential guns that are coming on the market illegally, so it would seem. Yes, which then you kind of although my recollection is and I was not there, but Victoria and the attorneys met with Thompson on February for and I believe he assured them that that was an impossibility. Yeah, okay, so Thompson's the prosecutor, right. Yeah, and he said that that's impossible. There's no guns and just all, they couldn't possibly do that. WHO THE HELL is he? Tragic, and let me tell you, they're all cronies together. Yeah, and that's what and that's a going to like kind of bounce, or in the pauls with the Manna corruption blocks, it will. First thing, for the sake of the listeners, pal, can you provide me with why? How you're the expert in this? Well, I have well, let's see, I've been kind of act this thing for about forty five years now, meeting criminal investigations. Huh, so I've been around the block a time or two and and the fact is that before I retired, I spent twenty years of my career investigating violent crimes, including homicide. So it's not like this is a puzzlement me. You know, been there, done that, and in fact, in the course of my career I saw the number of what would be considered cold cases. So I know that they're solvable. You just have to find the right leads, you know. Yeah, yeah, so on your blog you talk about the medynam mob. Yes, as so who do you if you don't mind? Who Do you include in the Madynam mob? Well, my sense of it is that, and this really goes to another case that's been ongoing. But you know, all these all these guys home and and and a number of attorneys, it would seem we're acting in concert to conceal some improper conduct on the part of one of the judges for their personal benefit, it would seem. Okay, we're talking about Judge Collier. Yeah, yeah, if you don't mind me bringing up the names. No, no, I know. Yet you know how? You know? The fact of the matter is, in my opinion, that guy should...

...be in prison. And how? So well, for one thing, he has a history, of proven history actually, of campering with transcripts, try up transcripts, all of the intent of depriving individuals of fair hearing on appeal and to conceal his own misconduct to trial. He's a loose cannon and the he has the opportunity to hear these transcripts before they filed in the Court of Appeals, to start to take up the stuff that makes him look like the goofy is so. In fact, I got to one person who wants retained. Kevin Dunne is now a judge in the capacity of the private attorney, and done told this person these sport reporters do this all the time to protect the judge. Now that comes from a guy who's now a judge. So you tell me good and now. Actually, on one occasion I was up in the Court House and the farmer, Judge Kimbler, walked out and I said, Hey, let me ask you a question, judge. What can you tell me about this Guy Kleier taffery with transcripts? And he kind of looked at me and backed away from me. Is that? I don't want anything to do with that. Interesting. They all know they all know. Yeah, so we've gotten that would be the guy. Like. So if they do decide to find the killer for Brian, this would be the guy that would try him. Oh God, I hope. What are the options do we have to actually get like a fair trial, if this word come about? Well, firstly you have to know that in Madina County there is that's no such thing as a fair trial. It doesn't happen. And and the problem with that is this. I mean, despite the fact that people are deprived their constitutional safeguards, but they do such outrageous things that they're the convictions are overturned on appeal. And in this case you do not want anybody to walk after you convict them right, in other words, you get a conviction, you want it to stick and you want these people to pay for what they've done to this man. Yeah, so, you know, I it's hard for me to predict what may happen locally. I I'm aware that there appear to be some violations of federal law with regard to this whole thing, and it's possible that it can be prosecuted in the feral court. But again, that's that's up to attorneys. That's not me, which would be top. Would Thompson have a saying that? Well, not, if we decide to take it federally. Okay, it's up, but you know it's it's up in the air. In the fact of the matter is their prosecutor, their prosecuting attorneys, at least one of them, who's the chief guy there, is not an ethnical person in my view, and has a hard time sticking by the rules. You know, there are rules in court, but they just don't seem to observe them there in the DNA. Okay. So what about Stinger? So settler has been a topic conversation on your blog multiple times. Right, yes, and here's a year's of thing too. I wanted in the beginning, I wanted to go to media and I wanted to Talk Huh numerous times and I was told by settler, no, don't talk now. You can come to the sheriff's department, will help you write something and we can release it. And I remember this was on a Tuesday I talked to him. Or No, I've talked to him on a Friday and they found Brian on a Tuesday and they said on Friday he told me you could come to the sheriff's office and he said you can come in and we'll help you write something and then we can release it to the media. And then they found it. or it might have been on a Tuesday and they found him on Friday. Okay, remember the dates. I have it written down. But yeah, he told me you can come to the if we don't know more. Byte that's what it was, if we don't know more by Friday, because that was always your sake. I would call my brother in law and it got to the point where every day I call him...

...and I'd say, well, they told me they should know more by Friday. So I'm like well, hopeful, thinking while they might be, they're able to tell me something more. My brother's law started laughing. He's like really, he said, Victoria, they tell you this every week. We should know more by Friday. It got to the point where I called him, I'd say, Darren, he goes, let me guess they'll know more on Friday. Wow, I said yes, and not. I'm not saying laughing and you know, but it got to be like here goes again. What are they? Did this department is a joke? Yes, they are. What are they? There's no. Well, Victoria, when you when you first met him, tell this gentleman what Dick was he had in his hand? When when Tracy showed up with the the facebook steps? Oh, when I met with well, they only met with me because I requested the meeting. All right, they weren't like. They didn't say, Hey, come in, you know, we have some updates. Let's keep they told me from the beginning. Will keep you a prize on everything. As soon as we know something, you'll be the first to know. That's what he told me. So then I said, you know, I want a meeting. Well, there's a we don't need to have a meeting. There's nothing that we need to tell you. And I said no, I'm demanding a meeting. I said I'm available every evening after and thirty. So you pick a day, Monday through Friday. That's when we're going to meet. So then they say, okay, the first meeting we had, we come up there, he walks in with a bunch of a stack of facebook posts. Okay, from Brian's facebook. He said, well, this is really this is all we have. Okay, as far as less or yeah, whatnot leads, but just this was the information they had they went to facebook. That their investigation? Yeah, the sub total their investigation. Where budget posts from facebook? Can you give me a break? Maybe it was there anything pages? was there anything relevant in that stuff? No, I didn't see if I can tell you there was nothing wrong with no. No, and what do you facebook is a bunch of that's how you're going to beat your investigation right on facebook post. No, you need to investigate like cal BCIAN. Have them come to the scene. When we interview people, interview family, interview friends, interview people down at Chippewa Lake. I when I was when I was posting the missing banners down at Chippewa before the polar bear job, there was a couple that approached me and said my son is too afraid, but he saw something that night. Okay, and he even. He even. They made reference that his son works like a second job and he was going into work that night. We know exactly who Victoria is talking about. His name is Michael Taylor. He's a listener to this podcast and he reached out to us. So we had an opportunity to sit down and talk to Michael Taylor and he told us exactly what he saw. So I was at the time. I was working up there and Bluviak and trunckoise right across from Ta and I think I was on Nice shift at that time and I got off at about seven. I am usually seven am bath. I might have left a little bit earlier that day because we're slow. But my parents, they live over there Kimball League and I was going a man a chip while they're on Lake Road. I was going to drive down by the water to see if it was frozen over because I was wanted to do some ice fishing and I didn't think nothing other that. I got down there to the stop sign to make that right hand turn by the beach and I seen black car setting there and I think nothing other I didn't hurt. I didn't even hear anything. Yeah, obviously, but this is before the even you know, everybody showed up down now, the cops and whatnot, but I did what was weird to me was somebody was walking. There's a basketball court down there. Somebody was walking away from the beach area on the other side of the Basketball Court and they're wearing, I think it was like a black Hoodie or someth like a jacket or something with a hood on it that was black...

...and the weird thing to me was they were in shorts. Okay, and if you remember that day or anything, it was really cold that morning. So I mean that was just weird to me. Like I said, I didn't think nothing of it at the time, but now that all this is being circulated, I was like, well, maybe that could have been something. Did they did you see the guy get into that car that was waiting? Now? I didn't see anybody get into the car that. I just seen that person down there walking away, like I think there's like like wherero tires like the wood that kind of Ligne the water right there. Yeah, on the other side out they're walking with her head down right up against the edge of the water. How would you describe the car? Like make it? Model? I'm not sure I'm to make but it was ANSUV so probablem like it was blacks, probably like a suburban or something. Yes, you, I don't know if for those third row, but I have like the longer back area. Okay, what time he said you got off work out roughly, like so you think a little before seven, you think, or what time we're used to think those between thirty and seven am that morning. Okay, so this person was walking away. How far away from the car, in your estimation, do you think he was when you saw him first? I'm guessing it's probably, I want to like a hundred feet, hundred fifty feet. Maybe in the car was just sitting there running an angle? was put into a spot or nothing. Just look like somebody pulled over. You know, we just sitting there taking a break wherever, just looking. But I didn't see anybody in the car. I just seen that person. Can you describe more of that person, like how tall, how heavy they were? Probably roughly six foot. Maybe terrible judging weight, but I'm just guessing probably between one hundred and seventy five, two hundred maybe, like normal. Yeah, they just look like a normal person, white person. Yeah, okay. And so you just pulled around. Thought it was funny that this guy was walking with short train of hoody. I mean that's kind of property over there and there's no path or nothing good point. I think at that time they were still building that big house that was just built up there on the hill right there. Yeah, the House on the hill. Yeah, you kind of familiar with the area because you said your parents lived there. So you go in there like this, wouldn't be somebody that you could have mistaken. It could be the property owner or somebody that belongs there. I don't think so. I kind of I don't know everybody in that area, but I know there's a few older couples that live there and there is a big house right there on the corner. I think that gets rented out like in the summer time. Usually there's young kids are stuff, but I don't think nobody like occupies it during the winter. Okay, well, like I said that, I think that house, the other big house that was just built, was still being built there, but nobody was there. I mean there's like no workers or no other vehicles or anything like that that I see. So just to make sure I got a picture in this right. So the car you saw was parked down on beach side Boulevard, kind of bad like an angle, kind of right close to where the beaches is that right? Yeah, yeah, the roof fence area right there. They separate from the parking area in this person was walking towards like Chippawa road, or is this person walking in the other direction? They were walking. Well, they were around on the edge of the water. It would have been they were heading south, like towards the like walking towards the inlet area, like the Carbo area, like that direction, old car Woll, walking towards the Carnival area. Yeah, like in that direction. Obviously the CARVAL was is down farther, but like walking that direction. Okay, Gotcha. which is basic. Okay, I just want to make sure, cause that original. That's picking any going the other way. So he would be technically walking away from Chipwall road, right. Yeah, yeah, okay. How long did you watch him for? Just for I mean, I stopped to the stop sign there and I said Ben, think nothing of it. At the time. This was before everything came out, so I mean it wasn't very long, just a few seconds maybe. I just kind of put him out of...

...the corner of my high like somebody walking. It was kind of weird because it was very cold and I know they were in short and I was like that's weird and you know, just proceeded on to my parents house and then later on that day, obviously you found out what happened. And later on that day and my parents called me there like here, this and that's going on on, like well, this morning when I was coming to your house, I seen this person and the car. I was like that I was I told my parents. I was like, I don't know if I should say nothing because, you know, that's I don't think there's enough information there to be able to help. And you know what it was about it. Now that's that's interesting. If that person is connected to that car and that's the day the body was discovered. I mean, who's to say the body wasn't kept somewhere else and dropped in the water? We don't know and we can't prove it through this, but this is definitely an angle that is kind of really fascinating to think about. And it look that is what happened. Then, like maybe you saw the murderer or somebody that was responsible, you know, I mean it's there's nothing funny about it. I told my mom that and she kind of jumped about. She's like that could have been the person, you know. I was like yeah, I mean, it could have been. But when you were set out to me on Facebook, you know, I thought I got to talk to this guy because there there's that remote chance that that is what you say. So so who have you told so far about this my parents, my fiance, and there was a page on facebook. It's not your guys, as page is like Brian back page. Yeah, page before I message you guys, and somebody I asked who ran the page because I wanted to like, I want to share the story that I had and I didn't know how to get in contact with you guys at the time. But somebody had messaged me back and said they were part of the family and I had already, you know, typed up this whole big thing and send it after they said it was ran by the family. So and then they were current. They just said that they would pass the information over to the authorities and that was basically it. All right. So when did you do that? Just recently, or is this back a little bit ago? That was right before I message you guys. So I feel like there's really awesome. Well, thank you for bringing that forward right that. Yeah, you're you're very welcome. One more question, and this is probably an obvious question, but was that the only car you were you saw? When you look, yeah, I don't I don't remember any cars passing me like coming up from that direction. I think that was the only one that that's the only one I know that I saw. I just thought it was kind of weird, like, yeah, anything about the people there in that town are kind of newsy and everybody's watching everybody, so it's kind of yeah, that nobody seen anything really. I mean have you? Have you talked at all of Paul Hartman at all? No, I don't even know the okay, do you care if we share this to make sure that like, at least somebody else listens to this, that it's investigating the case. This is anything to help. I mean has nothing to do with me, but I'm very interested to see what really happened to see the truth come out about it. So awesome. We are too. We've blogged a lot of hours on this puppy, trying to push something forward here. So thank you so much you guys. Let be cool to you. Guys uncovered this thing. Okay, cool. Thank you so much for reaching out and sharing what you saw. Yeah, appreciate you. Get something else to call us. Yeah, definitely, and I do a lot of stuff around the lake, so I mean could find the murder weapon. You know, you never know. Yeah, man, listen, you got my number. If you find a freaking murder weapon, you have to call me. Okay, I pull a few things on that leg that we're interesting to say the least. Really thank Michael for giving us that interview and telling us what he saw. It's extremely interesting. It could be very, very helpful. We're going to be bumping back into the interview that we have with Paul Victoria and we're going to be kind of going back to the part where Victoria was relating that she heard about Michael. She didn't know who he was. She knew that somebody had seen something in that he was afraid to come forward. Now, after you've already had the benefit of just hearing Michael, some of Victoria's details are you could tell that they are coming from like secondhand, third hand information, information that she got from the parent and stuff. So it's important, I think,...

...just to have that perspective that we got to hear it right from his own mouth. But I'm also going to leave some of it in just because I think it's interesting to understand how all this works, how the details that you might hear from somebody that are actually you know that will become a lead differ once you actually talk to the individual. And he even told them that he saw something that night at the lake. So the boy that's not the sheriff saw the guy that that works night she was coming, he was coming home from a night shift and he remember seeing something at the lake. He said he saw someone walking along the lake, along the shoreline, along beach side right me, or along Beach Side Boulevard? Correct, it was like well, further down, I guess is at beach side. Yeah, it was, he said. He said he's spossible walk along the shoreline and he saw someone behind the shed, which is at the end of the lake, okay, and he just kind of kept driving. Noted at as weird being in the middle driving. They live there, the parents live there and when he was getting out of his vehicle he saw this, but he was a too afraid to go to the sheriff's department himself, so he just told the guy that he worked with one of the deputies. What did the deputy say? Do we know? He didn't know. I don't think he did anything, obviously, and I've told them what this couple look like because I was down there, but I didn't have a pen or anything to write down. He and they told me what we live right up here on the hill and I said okay, I said I'm going to have somebody come and talk to you, and that's when I went the next day and I call on my break and I told I told Detective Cartwright. I said this, there's this couple. I'll tell you exactly what they look like. They told me where they live. I said you can go interview them. I don't believe they ever an interview. They didn't interview anybody down there. And when another family heard something down at the lake, they called the sheriff's department and they never did anything about it. The girl was a nervous rack to don't go there. Okay, okay, okay, but but what's interest to use that? The Fan, emily called the SHAREFF's office. Yeah, three times and they never the share of self is ever spotted to this is to a resident who witnessed, it would seem, at least a portion of this homicide. Wow, okay, so we do got witnesses. We just that's any to a portion of it and we really can't go any further than that. Yeah, other I means I ask one question. You can tell me yes or no on this. Have you you vetted this yourself? I'm sorry, have you vetted this yourself? You can answer this or not. It's up to you. Oh yeah, I mean you're reading the person. Okay, so you guys have vetted this and this is helpful. For What's information? Good deal. Good. So what about camera footage? So you know in the paper they asked about if you live on these streets, please you know, let us know if you have any footage you know possibly that we could access and stuff. What do you guys know of any footage? No, no footage. Interesting. Now we have a very questionable lead that we were going to look into. The Inn at Chippewa Lake per the they are told us to go talk to them. Have you guys talk to them at all? Talk to whom? That in at Chipp Wall Lake, the in? What is that? It's a little like bar kind of place going up the hill. She thought that they might have had some sort of video footage, but she didn't know that for sure. She's she could kind of set it as a matter of but we haven't got there yet. As far as for us. You could, you can go check, but it's such a late date not likely be different cult. I'm not quite sure what place you're speaking of. Because there's a I don't know if anything in tipoil. Like there's the oaks. So it's up to hell from beach side Bolivar were. We're pulling it up on our phone right now for okay, you're talking about the tavern up on the heather hitch, I think edge. Yes, religion. Yeah, the village is. Well, yeah, it's as long Acre Lane is the...

...week at least, but I mean of the roads are so could be on, you know, one side, the other side. Yeah, I know exactly where you're talking about, but you guys haven't collected anything from that. Quite frankly, I don't think they have any. And I may be wrong, but I don't remember any exterior cameras there. But again, that's just my memory. Okay, well, if we do find something, will call you and not prone place. Yeah, but interesting. So, so you guys have got stuff that the sheriff's office doesn't necessarily have or probably doesn't even necessarily maybe even care to have. Huh? They don't give a shit. No, that's the reality and in fact, if you look at that, at their quote unquote press conference where center tries to assert that Brian is responsible for his own death, which was completely contrary to what the corner said. They're just making excuses so that they are not held accountable for failing to do exercise due diligence to this thing which they have not done right. So let's see, let's skip to well, something real. Yeah, just I wanted. What is your honest got feeling about the sheriff's department? Is it incompetence or the actively trying to cover something up? I mean, what do you think as an investigator? I well, I think there are several forces that play here. One is the political end of it, with bowers, who seems to be a mover in a Shaker in Medinah County Republican politics. But beyond that I think they're just incompetent. Let me think anybody or anything like that just I don't think so. But I fully unwound you. But let me just give you an example. They decided, or this detective decided they were going to take a DNA specimens from all the firemen. All right, and they didn't do that. They didn't get them all, but they got some. But when the guy was taken the samples, he'd ever changed his gloves, so all the samples were cross contampinated. They're not worth the powder to blow them to hell. That's just incompetence. The the proper protocol is you take the sample, you discard the glove, you put out another sterile glove and then you go at it again. Well, this guy didn't do that. You know, it's just incompetence at the very least. Yeah, so they so, they spent whatever money they spent to get these things examined and they were all cross conta any they had absolutely no values. Yeah, and that wasn't even done in a timely manner either. No, I absolutely not. That wasn't done in like a day after this, two days after that was done after correct and they didn't have any DNA to compared to anyways. Right. Well, they really said they want to? Really they apparently have some DNA from the bloody towel that they recovered. That's not brians. was obviously not bryants. No, okay, because in his statement he said that, you know, it all came from, quote, one source. Right. Well, yeah, you can't believe anything they say. Let me get let me give you an example. They said early on, they said the footprints in the in the in the scene the crime scene are all consistent with Brian's shoot or boots. Well, they made that statement before they even had issues, so they didn't know shift. But but the reality is there are other footprints there that. I talked to a witness who said no, they're like work boot prints, not dress use work boots. So these guys lie, you know. Yeah, really are proud of the way to put it. They just make stuff up. Yeah, yeah, my brother in law called down, called down to be see I and said, you know, so, what's going on with the investigation of what do you have of Brian's and they said, Oh, well, he's he said, well, he he had boots on. He made reference to boots. Bryan goes or Darren said how would you know that Brian isn't recovered yet? Interesting, and he's like, Oh, well, you know what you need. You need to contact the Sherif's department. Everything has to go through down I. I can't talk to you are so it was another example of how incompetent they are.

Brian's laptop, which Victoria kindly turned over, was encrypted and they couldn't figure it out. Is the ENCRYPTIAN keyes forty eight digs. So there's no way to tell, even randomly. You can run that if any ten years. Yeah, so I found the encryption key online. I found it interesting. Yeah, he found it. So all these guys are screwed around trying to figure out how to get it as a some drive this. I just found it online and he is MSN account. It was in a in a file. Yeah, and I turn it over to the with the understanding that if I gave them the key to open the computer that we would get the information contained therein. And of course they renig down that. Well, and they're trying to act like it was a sinister like, Oh, you had this encryption code, you know, he encrypted his computer. He traveled for a living, he carried half a million dollars in jewelry. Well, the reality is so the employer to lock his computer. Yeah, the employer locked the employer did it. Yeah, installed all the encryption stuff. Okay, so it wasn't Brian's doing to put that encryption on. It was the employer, not that we believe, the employer. Yeah, to the computer, right, right, there's trade dead and information, you know. Oh, yeah, no, I have a computer that's got all the Hippi stuff on it that I'm so even with Brian carrying all that jewelry, there's still an insurance he I mean they they ensured him to carry it and there's still if he were robbed, it would be a loss. Yeah, but it's so so the industry. Ten years ago they were carrying real stones in the center. It's their center stones and that so it was a lot higher insurance policies. But you know, when the economy went tanked in all this, they had to come up with more economical way per se to travel rather than carrying all these loose goods that were of value. So if you, if you steal, if you if you steal what they have, if you come and rob the jeweler or the sales guy carrying the jewelry. Now they don't get the center stone. Yeah, would we Reh it was a for Fivezero centers. Don't need get that plus the mounting. Well, now they became smart, like, wait a minute, let's just eater put a separate either no diamond in there or will put the CZ they still get the look when they go to the customer, but yet they don't get the real stone. Yeah, and I mean you know, it's not like Brian. You know got a message from his phone, went down there, you know, to go get robbed right, you know, no, get right at that thing. That's Linda made that statement to the media like Oh, you know, I think she's like there's no money missing. Yeah, I mean if there was money missing, first of all and second of all, she she made it look like she's you know, this could have something to do with his, you know, his work. Interesting thing about that too. Yeah, yeah, you fellows familiar with that. Say That again. Are you familiar with the Ohio check book, which is a website? Well, it's a state website, but the communities can post to it their expenditures and income and all that. Okay, some Jos. it started. It's years ago when Brian was he helped the schools like before he was potentially he wanted. They asked him, reached out if he'd ever like to run for school board. So he he was on like a planning committee to for the schools as a citizen. It was called the Citizens Finance Committee. So it was like citizens in the community could oversee when this was going on with our past superintendent, that when all those changes came about, that they they started this citizens finance committee. So that they could the community could be apprized as to what was going on in the schools keep everything transparent. And ever point he was part of that and he found that there was this service that you could do through the state, that it was a checkbook register. So it would keep the community...

...basically a price to how the funds in the schools were being spent. So every check that a school district would write would go on record to this check book register and anyone, it's a public record, could go to that check book register and look. Okay, so it kept things transparent. So Brian found that out, like through the school district and thought hey, that's a really good that's a good service, like you know, community should have that. So he took that to Lafayette and Lafayette started using that until until two thousand and sixty eight. Yeah, when in two thousand and sixteen, all the sudden they quit posted in two thousand and sixteen. You know why? Oh, I wish I did know. I but what certainly suggests to me is that they said financially regularity there. That's what he sees. So under during two thousand and sixteen when Brian was alive, this stopped going. Somebody put an end to it. Well, somehow. All I know is I'm going on the website and they were posting to it and they made a big deal in the news media, the local and I use that to real loosely how this is going to be great, it's transparent, it's wonderful, but in the year two thousand and sixteen, when all of this happened, you know, at the end of it, you see no posts in two thousand and sixteen or thereafter. The comment was made there's no money missing. Yeah, well, why would you even say that when that's not an issue? You know what I mean? Yeah, no, it's kind of like your trayl what that causes me to suspect said there's money missing. Hey, we're going to leave it there for today. But we got plenty more on the Brian Macron case coming up in the next few episodes. In fact, we're extending it. I think we promised six or seven Brian macron episodes and honestly, you be at a service to the case to not go into it a little bit further, because we are learning new stuff every day and just like what we talked about in this episode, between the Ohio check book, some irregularities as far as the test team was going, what was going on with BCI? There's so many things that we want to explore to really give you the full picture of how strange this case is that we are going to go further with it. I don't think we have a choice. I think we got to keep going with this. In the meantime until the next episode, next week, comes out, go to our facebook. Follow us there. We're putting up updates. We want to hear back from you. We Love Your guys as suggestions and leads and tips and just enjoy interacting with you period. Also, we have our own web page where we have a timeline different pulls some resources there, so check that out. Again. We just want to thank everybody that has taken the time to write a review about the show on itunes. I know that that really helps and we appreciate that. Lastly, and this is most important, remember crime stoppers. If you have any relevant information at all, contact crime stoppers first. Make sure that you get out there. There is a reward, so just be mindful of that and everybody take care of yourselves. Have a good week and we'll see you next week. The invisible ships podcast is produced by invisible ships, productions and love. See. All rights reserved. For more or information go to www dol't invisible ships pod COSP DOLTCOM.

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