Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 13 · 1 year ago

The Murder Lake BCI Files

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Think this case is solved? Think again Danny, Darren and Rick go through the BCI file and find that this isn't the slamdunk the media and authorities tried to paint it as. There are glaring inconsistencies and some eyebrow-raising discoveries. We play you the actual police interviews and much more.   

It's time for the invisible ships podcast, where we talked about everything from true crime to the truly weird invisible ship's podcast. Guys, by now everyone knows that BCI has concluded its investigation and to Brian Macron's death and rule that no one else was involved, that he had acted alone. The official verdict is in. It was all a stage suicide. Okay, I got some things to say about that. Let me start off by saying that Danny, Darren and myself, we are not trained investigators, we're not doctors and we're not forensic scientists or amateur sleuths. No, we're not. We're podcasters, but we also have enough common sense to know when something doesn't seem right. If you thought that the Brian Macrin case was closed when Madinah County Prosecutor Forrest Thompson gave his press briefing, I want you to keep your mind open and I want you to listen this episode, because what you're about to hear does not come from me, Dani or Darren, it's not coming from Paul Hartman and it's not coming from Victoria macron. We're going through the BCI file, you guys, and there is a treasure trow of audio interviews where BCI agents were sitting down with the detectives and first responders and people that had very intimate ties to this case in this investigation, and we're finding a lot of contradictions and we're going to show them to you today on this show. What is important for you to remember, though, is that you're going to hear things in here that are going to contradict what the official narrative is, what the newspapers have been telling you, what the news has been telling you. I just want you to keep an open mind and remember that this is not coming from us, this is coming from the investigators. Danny Darren, where we at? You know, we've seen the BCR report. We're going through it. Each of us has a copy and there's a lot in there, but we're slowly working our way through it. How are you feeling about the case? Have you changed your mind or your opinion? Do you think that Brian committed suicide or are you still holding out that he was murdered? I I don't think you'll ever see me move from the murder side, I mean unless we had some crazy evidence. But you know, I think in this episode, like what you guys. We were talking about off are and Danny, I think you are doing a lot of work with looking up the different searches and stuff already. It was kind of skeptical because of conversations we've have with Paul. He said, because he's the one who found these, and keep in mind he's going to found these and he still doesn't buy that it was a suicide. But he turned him over because he's, you know, an honest investigator. But you know, looking them over. The first one is a link to a blog called Dr Kelly's death. Time for the truth and the search is death in single cut wrist artery. So we followed that link. It's a blog dedicated to the cold case of this Doctor Kelly in England. Who was the government declared that he committed suicide, but people suspect foul play and murder. And basically the WHO he was is back in two thousand and three he gave the British government information leading to the British government's involvement in Iraq war. Right, he was a WMD inspector. Yes, and Iraq, and he supposedly found weapons of mass instruction or was on that trail. Yes, and he was and once the tied of public opinion in England turned against the war and everything. They accused him of sexing up the information to lead the war and he just kind of fell out of public favor, but still probably maybe not enough to go kill yourself. And then there's an article on the BBC. But he they say, he walked out into the woods one day, cut himself, took pills and sumped over dead in the woods. So when you look at the search history, and with that in mind you...

...can look at his next search was for Reddit. How do you save someone with the cutthroat he visited? Can anyone friest to death overnight if it gets cold enough? He visited. How does summon sever their crowded artery with a kitchen knife? How long does it take the doctor being stabbed? So you know in hindsight of the way Mr macarn died. That makes it sound like maybe he was researching a suicide. But if he was investigating a cold case of his own that he was interested in from two thousand and three although searches kind of make a lot more sense and it's just really hard to escape the irony of the fact that his search was for an unsolved cold case of a person that the government is saying killed himself but a lot of people think didn't. That was found it exposed in the in the woods. It is so strange. I mean can't crazy. You know, they say fiction is straight or through. The strange is the addiction. Yeah, that is totally the case here. Kind of makes you wonder, like I like the theory that maybe he just was interested in this cold case and, through like the craziest twists of irony, ended up just like that. Or was he planning on, you know, actually committing suicide? Or this is the best way, one of the best ways, to stage it? I don't know, I mean again just going back to that stage suicide. You know what if I mean, I don't know, I'm not I don't even know what to say. It's just it's very crazy. But to me the biggest thing about this is it sort of just money's up the Google search angle enough to me that I can't really draw a conclusion either way on it, you know, because that first search. I mean, he could be I have searched this kind of stuff myself working on the Brian macmin case. So maybe he was working on the Dr Kelly case. You know. I mean if you're interested in something, you're going to look at it further, like, is this even really possible? You know so, I mean I can totally fathom, yeah, that this these searches could go together like that. You know it. Judge for yourself. You know, it's just weird. The whole idea of a stage suicide is a really strange thing. I mean when we talked about suicides, are sadly not super rare, but a suicide that you're trying to stage it to look like another crime, like a murder, those got to be extremely rare, extremely rare. One of our listeners, Sarah Sun us in another link about a very elaborate state suicide. So the reason I want you to hear this is because it kind of illustrates something that you'll see in any stage suicide, that the planning, however Labor or however simple in the staging, are all done before the person begins to commit suicide. So there's exceptions to every rule. And you know what the investigators want us to accept in the Brian mackron cases, that he was staging office in different places like that to look like a crime scene, while he was committing suicide. But listen to this case out of Florida, where it involves a high amount of planning before the gentleman ended up committing suicide. At first it appeared to be a murder case when a seventy one year old Palm Beach Gardens man was found dead in a field next to his country club home with a bullet wing to his chest. But on Thursday, after a sixmonth investigation, police release a report that concluded Alan J Abrahamson killed himself and stated as a homicide. The prevailing theory, backed by emails, receipts, Computer Search Histories and phone records, far fetched as it may seem, is that Abrahamson tied a string to a gun attested to a weather balloon, shot himself and let go, allowing the balloon and done to float far away from the crime scene. According to the report, the balloon could have taken the gun a hundred and five thousand feet up, nearly twenty miles, and then exploded somewhere out over the Atlantic Ocean north of the Bahamas. To be honest with you, it's just a bizarre situation. Clinical psychologist Dr Raffi Wald told W PECCBS twelve all reviewing the case, I can honestly say that in my practice I have never had anyone fake a homicide and commit suicide. Well, that case is insane. I can't believe it's true, but it is. And the reason, again, that we wanted you to hear it's just to show you that these things do...

...happen. They're incredibly rare and there's a lot of clues that investigators are able to uncover and find that the planning has been going on for a long time and in the staging. And so when you look at the Premier Macron case, I mean it's hard to really even formulate the plan that he was going through. So he went to the office and he was going to try to stage it to look like he was murdered there, and that's why you made up the story about the angry resident. But then, for whatever reason he changed his mind and decided to stop, stabbed himself, to get in his car and drive down a Chipwa Lake freezing cold early morning and wander off. The one thing that I keep thinking and I can't get away from, though, is that WHO's ever committed suicide and manage to hide their own body. I mean I don't I think Brian Macron, if this, if it turns out, if you agree with BCI and agree with the investigators, that this was an elaborately staged suicide. So hard to get away from the fact that it was months before they found his body. Right, and we've got monible. So some people are really dogging, and I was one of the people the really dog that they really didn't search at all. You know now, listening to all the people that did provide searches, including the parks department and how you know how much time they put into searching. That Lake was pretty well searched. They know everything about that lake. They I learned stuff about Jipua Lake just from listening to his interview. I mean, so he searched. They he had multiple people search the inlets. He had multiple people search the lake, not necessarily directly on the sixteen, but they're after and he even said he goes. He told his crew he goes. There's no way that we're going to let a body show up in the spring when everybody's out at our lake. So let's play the interview. It's in the BCIFILE. Let's just play. Okay, to day's date is June twenty, two thousand and eighteen. To time now is one hundred and twenty pm. I am personally at the Madinah County Park district, located at six, three, six, four dear view lane, Madinah, Ohio, for four, two, five six, and presently I am with David Swineheart. He is the chief ranger for the Madinah County Parks district. David a swineheart, S W I and e h a r t okay and your current are the chief here. Yes, sir. The next few minutes they go over personal details, exchanging business cards, but then things get really interesting. Can you kind of go through on the what happened on December the sixteen, two thousand and sixteen, what how that unfolded, weather conditions and so forth? On December sixteenth, I was on on shift that morning. The Sheriff Department received a call of a missing person with suspicious circumstances from the Offiet Township Hall, which is about two miles from our office building. They describe the scene as a bloody mess and we're looking for Brian Macron who had went missing. So, being in the area, I offered my assistance to help look for him outside of the door, within the park boundaries and so forth, because we have a big area property that runs from route forty two all the way down through Chipwall Lake is park district with an with a three mile inlet paved trail that does a biking and hiking trail with water on one side and wetland preservation on the other side. So we we begin checking that area and so a first started up at Buckeye would park, which is next door to our headquarters. We do...

...have a pond there. It's maybe a five Acre pond with a at small trail around that pond as well. So we want to make sure that nobody drove any vehicles up there drove into the pond. So I check that and there was nothing. I continue to drive the trail up to the north inlet trail parking area. We also have an inlet loop up there as well for a wetland preservation with a small body of water, more so just a wetland. It's not very deep, maybe two three feet deep tops. Didn't notice anything up there. Continued down drove the drove the entire inlet trail all the way down to Chippewall road, just looking for anything unusual. Now, the one thing I did notice is that the inlet trail was froze over the whole time. There were no breakage in the ice anywhere along that trail, which to me about weather conditions to what was the weather conditions on on December sixteen. But was like if you recall it, I recall it been very, very cold and windy. It was about five degrees out and bitter cold winds to the point where I actually put my ski gloves into Bogg and had on when I was outside of the car. So it was it was cold. Okay, it was not snowing at the time. We may have gotten a little bit overnight in terms of dust thing, but nothing, nothing of an accumulated amount. And when you said you were looking for unusual things, you were looking for a footprints and in that snow or right I was looking for footprints in the snow. I was looking for tire tracks into the inlet. I was looking for disruptions to the ice where maybe it had broken refroze overnight. I didn't see any of that. So at that point I started looking at ditch lines around the park area and I had originally been when the call came in. I was originally at the Chippawa leake public launch tramp on the west side of the lake. So I had left there and as I came up to Buckeye woulds I was looking in ditch lines along the way up ballish road. When I drove the inlet trail back down, I then check ditch lines along chippawall road, back up ballush road. Getting out of the car, check and culvert pipes. You should checking call you actually looking inside, looking inside the culvert pipes because at this point, you know, with what I had information wise from the sheriff's department, and with the amount of blood that I was told was at the scene, we were kind of in the mindset that maybe we were looking for a body versus of missing person. So I was in more of a recovery mode than the search and rescue kind of mode. So I was looking in the culvert pipes. Would drove back a couple farm fields along the way and over at the corner of ballish and state route one hundred and sixty two, there's a series of old barns that sit there and I pulled in there, got out and check those as well. Didn't see anything. Didn't have any tire tracks going into him to having a footprints around him. Went into the Barnes. Didn't see anything out of sight there. Is Out of the ordinary there as well. Dispatch ultimately come back and said they had located the car at Chipwall Lake Beach, which is at the corner of Beachside Boulevard and long Acre Lane, and we visited that just a little bit ago. Yes, sir, so I responded down there see what I could do to a system as well. When I arrived, Deputy Donato was already there. I believe Detective Sha's mennows was there also. He's no longer whether sheriff's office. He retired. And eventually deputy king arrived,...

...who is the sheriff's Department Canine Unit, so he worked a dog around the area. As a couple more deputies arrived, I took my ranger that was working, ranger white egg, and we continued to search the area. The one thing we did notice while we were down at the lake is there were no footprints in the snow going over to the body of water. The lake was. I used over and the only part that was thought was a middle section of the lake itself. The only footprints we saw in the snow around the lake were an older couple who were walking their dog when we had came down to the vehicle. Other than that there were no footprints and nothing that indicated that he went into the lake or onto the ice at that point. was there anything around his people that you noticed? As far as footprints? There were no prints around a car because there was no snow or anything on the pavement. Didn't notice any blood. I figured if there was that much blood at the township hall that maybe there was some blood around his car, something that we could track, and there was nothing. Okay, deputy Donado went south along the beach through the private access ramp for boat launch to look that direction while range why white egg and I went back north and ultimately we got in our cars and we went back up towards the inlet as well as the chippawall nature preserve on chippawall route once again check that area pretty well looking for any disruptions or anything unusual, just doing double checks. Went back over to the public launch ramp and check the west side boundary shores. Didn't see any disruptions or anything unusual. Over there. At one point I met with Lieutenant Windscott from the sheriff's department down at the chippawall on tramp and he had been in the area conducting some recom as well, and at that point, I recall, I do remember he was talking with Osp this house state patrol, because they had launched a plane into the area and they were doing a grid search of Chippawall Lake and the surrounding wetlands and and they never, never saw indicated anything. That kind of worked that way right. I know at one point we got out. I did get out of the car, I believe when Scott did as well, because we want to double check, just because of the nature of the situation, we wanted double check sumries. We had already checked and and checked underneath the bridge of the inlet on Chippawall road adjacent to the park and there were no disruptions around the bridge abutment or to the ice below. Knowing and he was froze over there. That was froze over as well. Stefanily or ice. Anybody's listening to this tape, the the public boat ramp or launch round that's on the west side of the lake that's correct. In the the inlet bridge that you've talked about and that's on the northern north side of the lake and in a private parking area, are the public parking area that's on them where the beach is and so forth. That's on the east side of the lake and it actually is north of the old Chibwall Lake Park. Correct. That's no longer any operation. That's correct. Okay, did as your day went on, did he did? was there anything else turn up from from the searches in the area? Did you find anything at all or do you know if anybody found anything suspicious? No, not that I'm aware of, and in fact we we made it a point to patrol down there extra that day as well as the next couple days,...

...because the one thing that I told my rangers was I don't want to find a body folding on our lake come springtime. So we made it a point for about two or three days afterwards to just double check our work check and culder pipes again, just battracking our steps because we we didn't want to have a negative connotation come on the park district because you know, it is our lake and right he don't want that kind of stigma tied to your right public beach area. See his car when you when his car was found, it wasn't pulled with the front end of the car in towards the lake, was it? No, it was not. It was a sitting parallel to the lake across parking spaces and you would have been probably would have been facing it would have been facing south and that intersect and again is is beach side and a long acre lane and it's kind of like on the north end of the parking lot itself. Right, that's correct. Okay. Did you get a chance to look at the car? Very well, I did look at the car. Did you have any any observations from or recollections from your observations? Look into Carr? Well, I recalled being clean. Did it seemed like it was pretty clean. The Sea did seem like it was pulled forward a little bit, which which I kind of thought was a little odd because the front seat, the driver's seat, was pulled forward a little bit. I thought it was kind of odd because I do know Brian as he wasn't township trustee, and I've had dealings with him before, not on a personal level but on a professional level and through acquaintance with Sergeant Sanford at the Sheriff's Office and I knew Brian was a bigger guy, so I kind of thought it was odd that the seat was pulled up a little bit because he goes probably about to sixty two, two hundred and eighty pounds, probably about six foot tall, and I thought it's odd. But but I didn't really think anything of it and I did notice a little bit of blood around the steering will area. The interview ends with officers swineheart discussing the day that Brian Makran's body was discovered in the lake and some of the just technicalities of how they got him out of the water. The big takeaway that I get from this is the fact that they were competent officers there on the beach that day and that d any of these guys knew the lake right they this is their patrol route there, the Rangers that work there. You know, I think that interview reflects really well on the park rangers and the Madonna County sheriffs and everyone that he needs referencing that was working. Unfortunately that sort of kind of got lost in the original information that was released on the story. But he makes a pretty clear that they did a really good job searching and even said, as you heard, you know, for days afterward go back and hit those most likely spots to. So I don't think anything. Think he didn't do his job? No, and I really think that if Brian was there they would have found it. Remember that for the theory to work for Brian to get washed into the Lake Dorena thaw, he would have to be pretty close to the shore. Yeah, I think, especially knowing that there was multiple days of them doing it, the only logical explanation would be that he wasn't there. And what do you think about the car seat being pulled forward? Is that just a minor detail or if you think that is a larger clue? I mean it's certainly kind of sounds like maybe Brian wasn't driving the car and it was a smaller either smaller man or woman or something. And just the one of the thing I wanted to say about the search aspect is, you know, we've all been into this area. We kayaked around it. I mean it's it's what it's like natural. It's kind of rule, but it's not dense woods like with the way people search, it would you would...

...think they would find it. I would think, I mean especially, because you got a gentleman who's bleeding during that time, but in the snow, the ground is covered in send this snow. Yeah, and I also there's a discrepancy on whether there were search dogs that day and or not, and I kind of through the BCI report I found where they said they did have search dogs out there and I don't know how well they can pick up sense at with that kind of cold temperature. But also another interesting thing that I want to play. I want to play the runner video today for you guys cuz particularly that's the one that Forrest Thompson said that he had. There was an eyewitness putting Matt Brian macaren walking towards the inlets and I think after you listen to it you'll agree that wasn't Brian macrin. Let's hear it. Just a quick note you guys. While we were going through the BCI file, we came across this audio interview with a Jogger and the reason that we're not telling you her name, even though this information is public record, is the fact that she's very adamant with the investigator that she wishes to remain anonymous and we have to respect that. You know, she said that she doesn't want to be hounded by people or have reporters at our door or whatever. So you know she's not involved other than just being a potential eye witness to something. So we're going to leave her name out of it and we're not going to be giving that information out. Is there understand it of you were a drugging one morning and you were stopped by a sheriff's captain who talked to you briefly. Do you recall that? Yes, okay, and that that was Captain Center from the Dina County Sheriff's Office and was also another person with him. was his name was Arvin clar he was from BCI and I think they probably asked you questions about if you'd see anything suspicious in the area. Do you recall that particular contact? I remember them asking me question, sir. Okay, and then at a later time, apparently, it's my understanding you may have called the sheriff's Office yes to somebody because you had a recollection or something. I did. Okay. Could you, could you tell me what what you recall, if you still recall it. I'm assuming you do your sore. Okay. I had gone out to jog at my normal time. It was thirty. It was dark. That's why I stay in town and it was cold that day's I remembered dressing for the weather. It was probably like seventeen degrees or whatever that day. Pretty cold. You recalled the do itself dude. I mean it was. What do you mean? Do I recall the day in any significance, about the particular day or the date of the day or anything like that? You keep know, not really. Now. My husband leaves for work about thirty and then I'm out by thirty. Run in the streets. I typically I'll go out and I'll turn to the right and run. When it's dark like that, I just stay in town. So I run under the street lights and I ran beach cider. I'll run beach side and I start running north and I go up to like Tipur road and then I'll turn around and come back. When I came back, that's when I saw a gentleman walking on the other side of the street and I said Good Morning. Didn't know him, and two things kind of went through my mind. Number One, he must not be a morning person, because he did not say anything. And number two, for as cold as it is, he sure wasn't dressed very well and very like appropriately. He had like a Hoodie up over his head. That that it was dark, I don't know, under the street light. We had just kind of met and it was at that point I run down to the beach and that's when I saw a car park there and it was weirdly parked, as if it...

...had stopped at the stop sign there and just pulled forward. When you said he was under dressed, do you call anything about the color of the Closey had on or could you tell then? An awful lot this is down a while. Yeah, absolutely, I remember a Hoodie being up over his head. I do remember that. Ah, was it Blue Jeanie or red or may possibly that? I think. I don't. Was Pall? That's that's not a prom that's not a problem. So the jogger mentions that he was wearing a Hoodie. Was Brian macron found wearing a Hoodie? No, he wasn't. I don't know who she's seen, but when they pulled Brian macron out of the lake he had on a sweater button up colored shirt. I think it was blue jeans and a pair of boots on. It was this sweater red or blue, because she said she thought his blue or Red Hoodie. I thought it was gray. But I think also the thing to notice. As soon as I heard this interview, I had to get ahold of Victoria because it's like this. Did you have a missing Hoodie? And with her response was no Hoodie. He doesn't own a Hoodie. He's not a Hoodie Guy, you know, and I think you are. You aren't. You know, I mean there's definitely you know, I don't Hoodie Guy. So she get there, saw Brian macron that day, Brian macron change clothes or shed it shadow Hoodie or something, or she possibly saw one of the people that was involved in his murder or dropping off his vehicle. And I know you know she mentioned it's dark because it's winter in northeast Ohio with it's dark at thirty in the morning. But if he was bleeding as badly as often as Brian was, you think that would be noticeable and I think we should all put together the Michael Taylor interview to yes, Michael Taylor was so when we interviewed in an earlier episode. Any reports seeing pretty much the same thing. Let's play it. I'm going to drive down by the water to see if it was frozen over because I was wont to do some Ice Fishing, and I didn't think nothing other. I got down there the stop sign to make that right hand turn by the beach and I seen that Black Carson there and I didn't think nothing other. I haven't hurt. I didn't even hear anything. Yeah, I mean, so what this is before leaving. You know, everybody showed up down then, the cops and whatnot, but I did. What was weird to me was somebody was walking there's a basketball court down there. Somebody was walking away from the beach area on the other side of the Basketball Court and they're wearing, I think it was like a black Hoodie or something like a jacket or something with a hood on it. He places a gentleman with a black hoodie walking around close to the car that morning as well. You know, did not think it was Brian. He didn't fit his description did not fit Brian, and so I mean I think it could be the same person. I will say one thing that she mentions that I think is good is how she said it struck her as odd that where she was right by the inlet and that it had flooded a little bit recently and the lake wasn't frozen, and there's all those like the cattails, all the things that stick up there that she says something could get caught on and then when it melted come out to the lake. It's possible that was the site where he was kind of dumped or whatever. Right, I mean, the person was headed towards the top end of the inlets, where we think Brian would have ended up. The hard part is is this isn't Brian. The sweater he was wearing was was great. Right. I guess if there was blood on it that could make it kind of red. But she keeps saying Hoodie. Four times she says Hoodie, putting over the head, over the head. What does that mean? He's not wearing the Hoodie. He's got it covered his face. Well, I mean he is really hood...

...pulled up over. So there's no way to mistake that for a sweater. Like a sweater is no hood yeah, and Brian didn't have so the only head sweater and the only identification that she can do is really just the face shot of a hoodie. How well can you recognize somebody with their hood up? I'm sorry, and the only other Hoodie we've heard is in the Michael Taylor interview right there, right and I think what I want you guys listen to next is how the investigator gets excited at the end. Had you ever seeing him in the area before? Did you recall? No, sir, now, and I know pretty much it's he gets kind of to you know well and we know everybody's routines and it's like, okay, if you're you know when somebody's running late or you know when somebody yeah, like, okay, you gut moved a or whatever. Yes, we are absolutely. Could you tell him what his race was? Was She quite or black? He was not black. Okay. And how about a physical description? Could you tell how tall he was or how it was? He then heavy, anything? And it was not. He was not thin. Huh, the gentleman was not thin. I could not tell you how tall he was. And and I know I'm asking an awful lot from me to that took and I is that what it okay, that's how I talk to my husband' like yeah, I can't imagine what you know what they want and this will. Maybe it's about and I thought Teezu, that's been a while. Well, okay, to be completely honest with you, I just found out about you this past week. Otherwise I would have talked to you. Well, there was kind of a glitchen or paperwork that was given to me. I never was given your name, doesn't didn't appear in the original paperwork that they gave me. All right, I don't believe this, because here we have this jogger who was possibly very, very important witness. You either saw Brian or she saw the people that are behind Brian's disappearance. Right, is important, hugely important, and they're just getting around to talking to her now. So it's two thousand and twenty when this interview was recorded. So it's been four years and she even says that some of her, you know, details and stuff maybe a little hazy because it all that time has passed, to the point when they called her, she didn't know what they were calling her about. Right, probably would be scared if you know who I wanted to do. They don't know it, but that's a lot of times passed. It's highly concerning. I mean, you know, there's so many things that are concerning and I'm just going to go on a quick little rant here, but you know, this is his last interview in the BCI file and he's still every interview. He can't even get Brian's last name right. He misspronounces that every time. He missed. He doesn't even remember who his wife is in some of the interviews and and this he's corrected numerous times in these interviews from the other people that are interview used to it. It's macrid, you know. So I mean, how can you not get his name right? First of all. Second of all, Settner is the one that did this initial interview. Now he's the gentleman that came out in two thousand and seventeen with the cliffhanger ending that we started our podcast basically off of where Brian acted alone, which we're going to play that interview later. He's the gentleman that did this interview with this person originally and then just didn't send it over to the BCI. So, I mean, what else didn't the BCI get that we don't have of key information to help actually solve this murder? Okay, and I ended up talking to one of the investigators from a Diana County. I did an interview with him week before last and how about? He came up with a jogger that that he talked to me didn't have your name, so I had to go back our research, everything have the sheriffs office pulled or people work out, and that's how I came up with you and okay, and that. Yep, the information that you have is is very vital to the investigation. If do you think? Did you ever tell anybody or do you...

...feel that that was Brian mccrone that you saw? Did you ever see any pictures of Brian will cream? Well after his picture was like plastered all over the papers. I mean I could say yes, but I don't know because it was dark. It's just it's odd. I find it odd that when they found the body in the lake, if you look it's right in line with the inlet, right right that lake had not it was unusual in that the lake had flooded a couple of times that winter. It usually doesn't do that. It really never froze over and it was frozen around the edges that day, but it wasn't froze in the middle and there's a lot of brush in the inlet that things can get hung up on and when the lake, when it rises and floods, it spits it all out into the lake. I I guess my feeling was that that's where his body ended up. Now, when you show him here with your there's nobody else arounding, and I was he was just walking on his own. Yes, did he? Did he appear to have any like he for lack of a better word, on the stay drunk. But I don't think he was drunk. But did he appear that he hitting kind of injury or ailment? That was it was he walking slow, as walking fast becauld you. He was walking at a slower pace and I'm not a very fast dogger. In fact. What's weird as I thought I would be turning around and probably passing him again, you know, coming up from behind, and I never did. I never saw the the gentleman ever again that that morning. I never did. And he was northbounding. You were softbound when you passed him. Yes, okay. And let's go back to the car that you saw him a parking lot down or the car. You said that the car appeared to your impression was that it might have stopped at the stop trying to just pulled ahead and just pulled forward the way it was part. She didn't pull into a parking like a designated parking spire of Sir. Could you pull in normally how we all pull into the beak parking lot? Could you? Could you do a color the car was? It was dark and the cut, I mean it was. It was on our street light that the color of the car was dark, which is why I thought it was this other gals because she drives a black vehicle. This was not black, though when I got up on it it was clearly different, but it was a dark color. Okay. was there any lights on in the side of it or was it right? Don't recall that there were any lights on. So it's a little strange that she's adamantly saying it wasn't black. We know Brian's car was black and his Brian's car was found there. I guess I witness, you know, you always hear that thing about I witness statements that they don't have a huge amount of credibility in court just because two people can see the same thing at the same time and have two different memories of it. So it could be that, but I mean maybe it was a different car. I mean we don't know like four years later to it's four years later too right. I think. The one thing I do like about it is her husband left at thirty in the morning and states that there was no car there and then she came at thirty. So that kind of helps us to narrow down when the car got possibly put there. We don't even know for sure if it was Brian's Carl, though, the way it's she describes how it's parked and I think that's fairly consistent. But the color, she definitely was adamant that it didn't match. Just thought experiment. What if people in a different colored but similar type of car drove him there, dumped him, went back, got his car, drove...

...separate. So two cars left his car through the keys and it locked. It got in the blue or whatever different color car and drove away and she just happen to see the first one. No, I don't agree with that. Okay, just because I remember. If we're operating on the assumption that Brian was murdered, I don't believe his body was in the lake that morning. That's why they they wouldn't have found him right. But I'd to me, the him being murder doesn't hinge on his body not being in the lake. I think it's weird that they would have missed it. But, you know, to me one of my kind of theories and we'll see if you know where this goes. I think even if he was intentionally murdered, it may have been more of an intentional beating and he died from it. So they might not have really known that they left them anywhere. Yeah, I'm just kind of a hard time with him. If he was there, they should have found him that morning, I know, but like I said before, and I know it didn't make you happy last time, but stranger things have happened. Like it wouldn't be the most unbelievable thing in the world for them to walk right past his body not see it, because sometimes stuff happens and it's odd. I noticed it right away. My husband, who leaves it by thirty, would have noticed it because he goes that way. You know. That's that the beach stop and then turns left and goes up. It was park. So weird that he would have noticed and it was not there at thirty. That vehicle was not there. Okay, and you've talked to him about it? My husband? Yes, Oh, yes, and because I he definitely he would have noticed that. Yeah, I mean, like I say, you have a vital piece of information that was overlooked. Unfortunate. Please, and Oh, I think that, you know, obviously it would have been better, sure, if it would be more kindly, not, not, not from your part, from the other people in Bolsh part, if they would have chalked passion. So your recollection, we have been a little bit, you know, buzzier. Yeah, well, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so he's awfully excited about finding this woman and her testimony. He thinks that they have a smoking gun, that he's been instructed to wrap it up right and he thinks that this is the piece that he's missing. What do you think? Yeah, absolutely. I mean you can tell in his voice that he's excited. He, you know, feels that if this would have been out sooner, that this could have solved the case faster. You know, he has been, I've find my opinion, he has been looking foot to prove the case of suicide from the get go. He asked the sheriff's department, Sir aspartment. That's their conclusion, although, you know, originally they thought that he ran and then when they found him they're like, oh, we didn't run, so I guess he just killed himself. And that's that's literally what they where they went for. That's that's what the interview talks about in the BCI report, just in summarizing it up. But you know, so he jumps on it as this is the this is it, this is Brian Walking into the inlets, even though we've already talked about Brian wasn't wearing a Hoodie. He doesn't match the description. She can't even identify him as Brian. She's like, I could say, but I after I've seen it, but I really don't know. It's been four years, you know, and she's she can't identify it as even being Brian. How come the footprints don't match at the scene the crime with what Brian was wearing, because it wasn't Brian. And I'll again, where doesn't not bother them? That scene is so messy. I think a lot of that they just can't make any calls on. Like I feel like there's dog prints, there's footprints every those photos, I mean it's like they took photos after they had already been there for hours. It looks like they maybe we're taking pictures of their own footprints. I don't know, but you know, we put up the pictures a while back of Brian's boots. It's a very distinctive pattern and we've seen the pictures we have here inside the office where...

...there's some bloody footprints and they're clearly from Brian's boots. Very distinctive foot pattern on there. But at the area around the car and at the lake those footprints aren't there and this isn't bothering the investigators. I think that people just want to move on and we've seen it from some of the media that's been covering it, like some of the newspapers and stuff. They say slam donkets shut. You know, they solved this. But as we're going through and we're looking at the evidence, guys like you point out with the video, Darren, it's one. It's not a continuous feed. Camera to the video is so far away that all you're seeing our headlights. We have no idea if Brian was alone, if there are other people. You also told me that there maybe was another car. They're seene. No, they're definitely one. As another car on video. That pulled into the parking lot while Brian was there, you know, and you know what the detective, or Charlie, the BCI agent, chalked it up as he chalked it up as a car pulling in to dumb creamer and their coffee. That must have been what they did. Now we never saw the car even leave because the the camera timed out. But it was in the time zones of when the two videos we have a brian entering and then Brian leaving. Now the car was in there for close to, I think, two minutes at least until the time or timed up video timed out. And then the next time that's something at the store triggers the cameras to go on and we get distant few of the drive leading to Brian's office. We don't see that car anymore. Right. So we say that Brian was the only one there, but we know there was another car there. Is that the only way in or out? Chrest listen to this, guys. This is what we're talking about. Here's a little clip of BCI investigator talking to a Madinah County Sheriff's department investigator named Cartwright. This is what he has to say about that car we were talking about. Now it's getting after one o'clock. Down the sixteen we see we see a vehicle pulling or from the from the videos that we have from Laffett mark, see a vehicle pull pulling. It came from the east, pulls in to the market, or not the market on chart, into the town hall. Essentially, like we discussed, there was no other vehicles there that came in or out during that time. Essentially there was very little traffic at all. When it's getting closer to six o'clock, you do see a vehicle come in, pull into the lot and basically pull back out. It was it was was not. There was not enough timespan for anybody to have gotten out of that vehicle, kidnaped Bryan, put it back in the vehicle then leave. We did post on our website the video surveillance, which I thought was very interesting because they say that they've got this picture of Brian Coming and going and no one else was there. Now, guys, in the BCI report, which we're not going to probably have aired for you, but and that basically I report, they say, oh well, there actually was one more car there. But then I think also what's really important here is that they're there. This camera is not a continuous feed camera. There is, Jeez, I don't even know, fifty hundred different small video clips in the BCI folder which, if anybody has like a ring or anything like that, you know that it's motion activated. Yeah, and I think it's important for people to realize to you, if they haven't checked out the video, that we're talking about a video security footage camera right from the lawfiette market, which is across the street and down aways from the drive that Brian maceren would have to use to access the LAWFIA township administration. But right, so this is coming on when customers and things like that are arriving or leaving the Lawfi at market.

Not necessarily any action happened on Lafayette and the Fire Department is sort of in the way between the township building. It's like downship building, Fire Department right there. And then the security camera footage and you're gonna Badge you hear my security can we just went off when you're talking about that ring. If you want an add spot. Weird and but the cars are flying by and you can't see anything like these cars could be full of people or have one person though. You there's no way to tell right. You definitely don't know, and you I mean you can guess that it's his car, but you really don't know. You can't get all you can see your headlights and and let me say this too, because I've been reading the comments and stuff that people in posting about it, almost everybody misses the fact they were looking at the cars coming off of Wedgewood in turning and thinking that one of those is Brian's car. You have to look in the extreme upper right corner of the video. You just see little headlights and that's briant's car. Yeah, so I guess I would say if you haven't looked at the videos or the BCA reports, we believe we have links for that and it's just important to just kind of you know, if you just read the report you would think they had CSI crystal clear vision of the car and the license plate and everything going on. That it's not right. We're fortunate that we have some video footage with the rural area that we're in, but you definitely cannot tell for sure if that's Brian's car. You definitely do not have twenty four hour video footage either. You only have it when it's activated, which is so huge and it's can you know, it's very convenient that it did activate, but there's no way that that thing can sense all the way into that lafette township parking lot to send that camera off. It has to be something up front and every time there's something up front that's happening that triggers that camera to see. And we even have different reports in there in the BCI file of Brian not, you know, leaving and possibly coming will his car possibly coming back or being seen elsewhere throughout the township as well that night in between those hours of two hundred and eight and six am. So you know, if that's the case, then we're definitely missing footage at the law at market, and the reason is is because it's not continuous feed camera. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to play a little snippet from Captain David Settner. He's with the Medina County sheriff's apartment. He did a press conference and he's laying out the official story and timeline about what happened that night to Brian Machron. And then I want to compare that and contrast at with some audio evidence that we discovered, with more interviews from investigators about stuff that they're saying in the BCI file that contradicts this official story. Yet this is what everyone ended up agreeing to and this is what they're promoting the official story. So you be the judge, listen to these clips and then you make your and determination. The purpose of this press conference is to provide an update of the investigation to the death of Brian Machron based on all the information that we have to date. As you know, the Madonna County Sheriff's Office was notified of Mr Maron's disappearance at approximately seven thirty am on December. Sixteen deputies were immediately dispatched the township administration building in the macron home and at this time an investigation was opened and initiated. Within an hour and ten minutes, Mr macrons vehicle was located via on star detection parked in the Beech stide parking lot next to Chipwall Lake. It's important to note leading up to Mr Machron's death, the Mr Mackron himself had incurred a large, considerably large amount of financial debt, along with other personal behaviors he was engaged in. They were unknown to his family and friends that we will not go into detail at this time. Video surveillance from area businesses and residences showed Byron Backron's vehicle driving route or the early mornings of December sixteen, which began with his arrival at the township administration building at one hundred and fifty am. His vehicle left the township building at approximately twenty four...

...am and, as is observed, passing a residence near the lake minutes later. Physical evidence processed by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations from the township administration building, as well as Mr Mackron's recovered vehicle, resulted in matching Brian machron's DNA. DNA and blood found in and around the bathroom sink and on the fawcet matched only Brian Mac grin. The bloody footprints located in the administration building were consistent with the shoes Brian Machron was wearing at the time his body was recovered. No additional blood from anyone else was obtained in or around the administration building or in or around his vehicle. As a matter of due diligence and standard protocol, several emergency responders and township employees. DNA profiles were obtained in the case of cross examination or cross contamination of the scene. So what Captain Suttner is saying is that at no time did they ever find any DNA from that scene it didn't match Brian Macron or blood that didn't match Brian Macron right which, when I hear that I think, okay, maybe he did get its look was a long way to kind of proving that Brian macron acted alone. Because, Darren, you were going through the BCI file and you found a recorded interview with who was? It was detective cartwright with the BCI agent and he was kind of like passing off the case when the BCI took over and it talks about stuff that's never been mentioned to us and the media. But I think we should play. Okay, Jim, we're on record down on the tape re quarter. Rather it's August thirteen. I went to a two thousand and twenty of the time. Now is approximately ten twenty six am and and you know I'm Special Lading Charlie Schneider from Ohio BCI. I give you one of my cards come makes and I'm going to talk to you about the Brian mccrone question death case that occurred on December. Initiated it, I think, on December sixteen, two thousand and sixteen. I know at one point there was something about a there was a Hispanic ay to work for the at of service departner something. There was a thing about blood or something. He cut himself in the garage or something like that and his blood was some of the was found on that. And you'll drop a blood or something was found someplace on something, if I understand it correctly. So, oh, that was yeah, I know who you're talking about. No, that was the blood. The blood was found in what they thought was blood was on that fuel tank he did there. It wasn't his blood. We never got that. We got never got a link between any ball. Okay, okay, maybe eversoder stood that. The only thing we didn't build the biggest on answer questions. Who's DNA's on the DOORKNOB and the inside of the conference room and who's DNA is on that tall in dumpster? Yeah, and when did they ever compare the two to see if they were connecting? No, I don't think so what do we just here? That they found a bloody towel, right, and they got DNA on a door that they don't know who's that is. They can't match it to any of the people that they should be matching it too, right. I mean it's just it's crazy. This is at the end of the interview. They have gone through this interview and he has tried to Slan it towards suicide, suicide, suicide, and then all of a sudden he's like wow, we got DNA, we've got blood, we got a bloody tout and we don't even know if they link it to be more than anything that just that center press conference where he says the only source of DNA was Brian. You know, you can even say we found other DNA and it never really matched anything. And this is a public building with people in and out. But he didn't say that. Like you're trying to kind of set the tables that we hear what you want us to...

...hear. But you should have mentioned there are outstanding DNA's that haven't been identified. That doesn't mean that the murderer. I mean they you know, chances are it's not, but blood and there's outstanding blood. Right. Well, we know multiple people work in that building every day. So if you didn't collect DNA, that's weird er, right, and you did a bad job. Yeah, right, but we got DNA on a door and that what Brian would have used more than likely to get into that room and to leave. And it's it doesn't match Brian's. It's not Brian's. It's there, it's fresh, shows able to be harvested. At that point, I mean it's one thing to leave a fingerprint or something. It's another thing to leave DNA right and mean and to just right off. It's almost like, well, we found a smoking gun, but it wasn't Brian. So yeah, now the bloody tow. So they find this bloody tout in the dumpster and he it's not in the interview we played, but he chalked it up to a ambulance gentlemen like wiping down after they transported somebody and rather than throwing it in bio hazard, he threw it in the dumpster, which I mean could have happened irresponsibly, but wouldn't that have been an easy thing to rule out? I mean how many times you think that ambulance goes out and it's a weekly dumpster dump. Why couldn't you just pull those people, submit DNA samples and rule out if that tow wasn't? You know what, that's not the only interesting thing that was found in dumpster. And I got going through the BCI file about the knives. There's a message from Paul to Charlie at BCI and he said heard that a knife was recovered from the scene. Do you have any more info about this knife? And hopefully your people, this is Paul Being Paul, had enough common sense to preserve it and send it to a lab for fingerprinting at DNA analysis. And so charlie reaches out to Madonna Kund of sheriff's apartment. They said, well, we think what we maybe had a knife but we threw it away. And then they go back and this is all in the BCI file. They're trying to look for it and they're sending out these different emails to different people. So one that comes down to one of their patrol men thinks that it was his own knife that he threw away in the dumpster at the bloody, to Saystus Bryan American crime scene or was recovered from there. He says in that exchange. He says he threw it away before Brian went missing, but he use that dumpster. But he use that dumpster. I mean, come on, like, how are we supposed to get our heads around this, how we're supposed to hit any kind of trust in this investigation when anything that they pull out of there that points to anything other than Brian America acting alone is like they got a story for it like that. It's just a bloody towel that an's driver decided to throw away that dumpster. And then the knife is like, well, one of our own cops was there a week or so before Brian went missing. He was throwing away knives in that dumpster like the hell. But if it's more than a week ago, dumpsters dumped every week, I believe on Mondays, so he had to have been there within the last couple days to do that. Now I listened to his interview with Charlie and he claimed that he possibly threw out a knife at that point. He didn't exactly know what day he was there cleaning it out his car, but he said he found it in the back of his cruisers. So if you're in distress and you're in the back of a police cruiser. There could be a knife back there. Just keep an eye out, I mean at that's what he said, you know. So I mean that's just crazy. That like, you know, the whole thing. It's just like I have lost some trust, I guess, and how investigations are carried out and it is not like see USAW I at all. Now another bomb show that is also in the BCI report is allegedly there was also a knife found around Jippuah Lake, and that also they...

...felt wasn't related. By the by you, they didn't have Brian at the time, so they didn't necessarily know stab wounds. But you know, they're walking around, they got a bloody scene. But once again, though, as soon as they walked in here they thought staged scene. Okay, everybody, that's going to do it for this episode. Every time I think we're done with the Brian Macrin case, there's just new things that are uncovered. So I think we'll probably at least do one more episode discussing some of these things before we move on to our next project. I also want you to know that we are on facebook or on twitter. We have an instagram account that you can check out and almost all of the material that we're referencingnu some of the audio interviews are available on our web page, which is www dot invisible ships podcastcom. So check it out. You can read the BCI report there for yourself. Everyone, stay safe. We'll see you next time. The invisible ships podcast is produced by invisible ships productions and LEL see. All rights reserved. For more or information go to www don't invisible ships pot gasp dotcom.

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