Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 9 · 1 year ago

Murder Lake 4

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We learn more about Bryon's life in the jewelry business from Victoria and Paul talks about how some Sheriff's Dept service weapons may have been illegally bought and sold. If that is true did Bryon Macron know anything about it? Could this be another motive to have him removed?

Lestan official in Te Dina Gos MissingBrian Mat, was wit isting Friday under circumstances. Badinacaty investigatorsabtained suspiciousy fish. It was just days before Christmas in twesantysixteen, when a maintenance worker, fon blood, an ELAFEA, township trustees,office and size of a fight, then Makrins SUV turned up near Chipowa Lake,just a few miles away, no sign of him until February. When a Kayager foundhim woting his sibling, children, friends, don'tknow what happened to him. Tory doesn't have a husband and I don't have a funthey're. Hoping investigators learn something soon. One happened to Brian mackron and Wy.The former Trosney's body was Bai Cibwa Lake in February and maily member saythey just want to know what cot is the he was. The only person involved t anhow was because of Dat. An undetermined preliminary AUTOPI results show stabonson his body cause a death undetermen with the corner has not determined thecause of death or get Establis crost. I tetwe are back with another episode ofthe invisible ship's potcast, it's great, to be bad thainks for listening,we're going to jump right back into that Victoria macron interview in oneminute, but we just want to touch on some stuff. From the last episode realquick. I was really really glad that we got Brian Papovitch on the show. Ithink he made that episode when he described the crime scene whenhe described the knives it gave me chills yeah. That was a great interviewand it really it brought up a lot of kind of corroborating evidence from hiswitness account and also he had some different takes on some stuff. So Ithink he gave us a lot more to Tan to chew, on and in a what he came to us.He was just listening to the show and he commented and we've been finding out.So many amazing things from the people that are listening to the show that arecommenting. We haven't been digging in this case as long as everybody else hasor along, as some of you guys have web luce out. There keep digging Y Webse'sface book, the invisible ships community keep digging, keep giving usthese tips. We O to hear when you disagree with US 'cause we had anotherone with t e the Jone Situation Right, one of the kind of mysteries yeah, agreat comment from a woman that was listening to the show and she contactedus and she put forth a theory that the reason they didn't fly the drone was ppotentially because the weather was too bad too caotic that day, and if youremember from the last episode of Victoriamaricin, you know wasexplaining wit her frustration, how the police in the search and rescue peopledidn't fly a drone, even though they had people trained to fly. Droun yeahand a Druk Bu Mdin County Shars Aparan bought these drones back in twothousand and thirteen, and they were specifically there for a search andrescue so become macwas. Talking about how you know, there's a reason tobelieve that Brian might be in that lake at that time, and they should haveput the druwn out, but this listener was telling us that you know her. Theowas potentially, the weather was too bad, too chaotic to fly the Dron. So Idid a little bit of research and I was trying to pin down the weather datafrom that day. Unfortunately, going back through historical stuff, not allweather stations, or at least that I could find were available online. So itlooked at Cleveland right and you know it wasn't that crazy. We sawwindgus between ten and thirteen miles an hour and snow off and on, but itwasn't heavy early in the day and they found Brian's car around eight or nineam so. It wouldhave been time to put it in there, and I s got of researchingtoo so these commercial drones he basically if you had wingus of ten tothirtee miles in an hour you'd be able to fly them. Th, there's a rule ofthumb with thrones and if we have listeners anwe need to get the peoplethat is in a show that know more about...

Menerology than we do or more aboutRones, which is basically like. We know nothing about o. You probably know morethan US contact is, but I think there's a role thumb as far as whatever the topspeed is drawn is you can fly up to like two thirds in the in that windsperight side and ten Milephour Wind Day with like snow flurries? That's notthat's not very even remarkable waday. These are drones from target, so we we,if we have any amateur meteorologist or any drone pilots out in our community.We love to hear from you. You could email us. I chips, invisible at Gemail,dotcom or hit up our website, UM, invisible, ship's, podcast, dotcom andwe're about to roll the interview. I just wanted to say one other thing towe got so much awesome feedback from so many people and belone what you guysare doing there're stuff. I can't talk about right now we got some backchannel stuff that is so exciting. I wish I could share it with you. I justcan't get it's a little bit too early, but I want to let you know that youguys are helping to get the word out. It's getting noticed and is gettingnoticed in a really really really big way that I cannot talk about becausethere's something in the works but keep doing what you're doing keep sharing itkeeps spreading it sthey do' and as far as bag channel stuff goes, one of ourlisteners has been fantasistic. He is he once romate anonymous in the totalrespect that so we have to give Hem. Some kind of handle m want to do like asecret service hand for em yeah, and you know you really put a lot ofthought into this, and you came up with some cool options and I know there was a lot of owl options. whatewas some of those owl passenger innocent owl, different stupid thingslike that. I had a UM online secret service handle generator. But what dowe end up? What were we going to call 'em? So we we ended up with going andin just kind of a cool sounding name, it's easy to say, and it comes from anancient uddist word for like a riddle, so it's appropriate and going. I knowyou're listening you're, the guy that we've been kind of feeding stuff tooand you've been giving us suff and we've been trying out differenttheories and you've been checking stuff for us and Um. Maybe opening a bigdoorway to get some answer so maybe one day we can get you on the show. Ohobviously, under your new invisible ship secret service handle SUDONM, yeahyou're, suiting them, but anyway, thank you guys. You are all awesome andyou're really helping us, because this is about all of us in our community,but now we're going to go into the interview. So if you remember, in thelast episode, we Gond O cut off the Victori amacin interview to jump intothe paint interview, we're going to go back to where we cut from thevictoriamacan interview, and this is Goo you're, going to hear a little bitmore from Paul Hartmen on your too actually hear a lot from apartment andhe's starting to in this part, Shoul interview give us some very valuableinsight and I think you're going to enjoy it so Siak a listen, roingright atgoes to the that goes to my belief. So what wassaying that it was a horrefic scene right and that's I mean at definitely makes sense. I mean- andalso I mean, if that's the crime scene and he lost enough blood to eventuallyyou know, lose his life. You have to lose a l, you know een takeg, one cupand you spread it across the floor. It looks a lot worse than just inside thecup. You know a little bit of blood go a long way. Yeah E looth enough to Mooses lieoboutthe so so they brought a painter in andthen they ripped the carpet up and took care of that. So there was basically nocrime scene to go back and pull more evidence from. Does that sound aboutright, cracked, yeah, so the car, so...

...in through the car thgin I'sorry go ahead, notcome to find out.None of that was rset of deficate. None of that was preserbed. You saidcrack Yah. What do you thidid? They? It was so sample that they collected they.They still have those right that I don't know I don't know, gets there finds this crime scene callsthe call o Sanford, not not niney one one. He called me:Aver got a Tru, Tur, O T, okay, but Sanford Kindo had his he's beenhe's been around this whole time he's kept in the in the a they go. They find his car bypinning h the ONSTAR right. As far as I know yet, that' a Andand. Then they find his car y. Theysaid they found some blood in the car right. Cracked t was the blood and thedriver feet. The passenger s, the trunk, Do we know even where this blood was, I believe, where Theyud it was the drivers area, okay and the gear shist okay, so as if Brian possibly drove that caris that? What is that? What they're trying to lead us to believeor? I don'tnow yeah, I don't know okay or someone that was attacking Brian,then drove that car 'cause Brian was a pretty pretty capable guy right I meanthat that CIC article said Hav, a guy that could take care of himself. He hadtraining from the Marines Um Cuti jy yeah for someone, that's not going tojust get taken down by probably one person right well exactly and that's why we thinkthe way theslash was on the neck. Could it up teuls ogriright? Did we come to thatconclusion? Paul, like the way Yea Youto get good appears thenthe. Thewound got the bashes of the NEG. On the right hand, I likely severed the muscleso that inconpacitated I his ability to to move y Tad movement yeah so maybelike the Uppertripesius Muscle, probably would have probably been hit,which would have been a big arm elevator right, so he wouldn't havebeen a ble to really move that arm at that point right that would you e an right so then, so he gets um but then also just the move. Brianwouldn't have been an easy caspet at about two hundred and ninety pounds.Would you say well and here's another thing, because I never interviewed me:Iy had all the information in colrect where they got this information. I don't know Iwas. Just ours had taken up of him and the countycte. The night of the party sent it to me because Adam Adam was a former moleneas well, so I don't know why she was really sending his photo was the two ofthem standing next to each other and Linda Trout. All of this, his insertedherself and they've pretty much gone...

...through Linda before they ever came tome. I never gave them the information ofhis height, his weight or any clothes that I think he was wearing El everaske me the entire time wow er. Well, what would you say as o Weigtwasandwent out and I had to make fires missing firesjust before the Poerte Gup hhh, because I knew it was going to get somepublicity down there and it would be a turnout of a lot of people that live inthe Ara I hove. This would be a great opportunityto put his face off theInformatiohon of anybody. Happeneican confidentially call Um, and I started when I want those fire squot. I wantall the information to be correct, so I concerting to look at this information.That's being released, Ot like wait a minute. He doesn't wait to ninety 'cause. The quarters that swept thatthey said was on him is on our chair, upstairs Airveteram, okay, so that somebody is giving inforn. That is incorrect and it wasn't. I never gave any ofHiishul they ever even Chang, O ben asked and whoever they got it from. They should have top what it's going toyour driver's lacence. Even that would be a bit more accurate, even if theydidn't ask it forme, wouldn't you go to a driver's licence or some sort of Allad ID ye sitting here right now,that's what I would have thought they would have pulled it from would havebeen you know from his driver's licence, but that wasn't what was on hisdriver's license either. Well, I tibersices whislaret his driver's license. I believe I canat tm was like two forty, nine, so forty pounds yes and they had hem at six one. I was not six one. where I mean I, I know an IT leades meto believe that they were getting this information fomwindo and she's. Justgiven out an estimation as Horl as you might do, Os Wini' ispose, I his pouse, I'm theone closest to him. You come and ask me MHM, but they didn't they felt like they hadit all figured out without Yits Ontyeah teywoeringthey're, going to her foreverything. That's why this is just so yeahthen the reason they were tellingme BC. I was involved from the degory a like Ike from one okay, so they're telling me from the beginningDC. I was involved and I started feeling while from the beginning, Ifelt weird about this whole thing like. I can't trust anybody, but every day on my break, I get abreak at nine thirty. I would go out to my car and I make a call to thedetective, Um, cartright and I'd say: Do you knowanything? Do you have any updates? If I thought of anything or I could think ofanything that would help, I would tell him um he he would always say. No, we don'thave anything we shoul now war by Friday and this the tickest par Evran,is with WHO Hes theirsy with Tho stereosovis she'swith the sheriff's Office H he would...

...start sayingwell. He said we sent moreinto B CI, but we can only send seven to, I think,like seven to ten pieces at a time, and I'm thinking wait a minute. Ithought you said BC. I was involved from the beginning. He said yes, they are, but we can onlysend so much in at a time, I'm thinking if they were volved and they came tothe scene. They would take all the infrom all anyinformation they needed. They would take any evidence they would take itall. What do you mean you're, sending things into them yeah? So I was sendingup a red flat to me like and too, when BCI is involved as anyany cind anything. You always see their van in front of the scene you're on thenews, and I never saw ther man in any photos of the town hall, so TheoMikyoudo, Wat, B C. I was not involve. They never called them either yeah so and then so so, basically, howPTI got involved was eventually they turned over after they collected theevidence. The sheriff's apartment collected the evidence they sent overso much that they wanted to be tested and then eventually they ran out US UFthe test, and they said it was in BCI Ande up. Is that what happened or out of the DA it was a BCI in Richfield that was thanoffice. That was handling it and then, when it got turned over, they claim itwas dyet. That's why they were sending everything B. Ciricfield the prosecutortold me he was taking it out of richill after th after the sheriffs conductedtheir investigation, and I put that in Qlothe Mthey were the prosecutor saidhe wonte it further looked at that was two years in Paul. Wasn't it June Uni twentyttetiten O thwsand aneighteen yeah, so it was two years later that they turned it over to BCIout of new London. Okay Andi asked why, and that was because someone for thesheriff's Department worked at BCI, Richfield, interesting interesting, so someone that previouslyworked fom a dinicounty sheriff's office now worked at the BCIN Richos.What you're saying OPREK? I just said that they worked forone of somebody that work, unished, t work orbreceld or through the Bsin,ricield interesting, and then the prosecutor,the presecutor, wanted it sent to a different agency. It wouldn't be he aa vocation and the items that were in the car werenever searched in January to Tho. Wasn't it Caul Yeah? That stuff? My recollection isthat the tags on the bags you have fere like January fifteen or sixteensomething like that it was what would be January seventeentOswasnher Intatonin, the nigt. It wasn't Timewe fer sure. So, severalweeks layit was a month after it was a month after I do know that. So what what things did they collectfrom the car? Well, they kicked and choose what theywanted to send in...

...and they had returned a few items to me.It said a blanket and a pillow in the very back. The wine was Brogn Ait. Why would hehave a plug in a pillow in the back? Well, because Um in they asked me that Ta and I saidwell, we had gone to UH football playoff games for the football team and I know that'swhy the blanket was in the back and the pillow just you know we havekids or whatever and it was thrown in the back so but the blanket that was in the backthe blanket Napillo they returned to me in separate bags. They only released a couple items to me. I don't have any clothes or I don't have anything like that. It wasthe blanket pillow and a couple of other things they found in the car. Well, the Pint of mine here is that no,we don't know what they took out of the car yeah, we realely don't yeah and they might have searched itbefore they even had the proper authority too searchin. It sounds like that's probably true, yes, okay, justlike theywere in your house, fiing at would venture to guess, because weasked them for copies of search warrants and they never providedanything. They should have had a certain mor to search the car. Theyobviously did not huh. Well. Attat goes back to that my shot,my feelings on a shoddy investigation from day one when Stanford came hereand wants to write down the cerial number of his phone, the copy that theygave me Yeahan. You should already have this. Why di Yo, Jo, like Wat YoreTeindo, not remember when we ask them expressly for copies of any search?warrnts. Yes, in fact, I think dicted that and- andwe got absolutely nothing back there. I know sear CHORC yeah interesting yeah. I don't believe thereis and here's with him- and let me tell you what the value of that is, that youknow. Is that evidence that inmisiblent cart? You can see ot a warrant right, yeah right again, so if they've got something ofsome Dalu, is it going to be advisible becausethey did not obtain a warrante and was seized allawfully yeah, so kind of like the question thatwe keep going back and forth with is, is the sheriff? Did the sheriff was t eshurf involved in this, or is the sheriff you know covering it up, or arethey just that bad at the investigation Rit? You know where, where dos it Wy do youhave any comment on that at all Ohi'm sure the Victorias go a yeah. Like I said from day, one ther startedto be a trust factor where I started my own spiral: Obooks Hen. I was writingdown Um at one time, Linda ours, Nei was taking my daughter down tocheck her into Ohio state and, as was umjust after the Christmasholiday, so Alex was going to be checking in now to Ohio state and she had called me and she said, hey. I have somebody that has um trained like search dogs...

...that they offer that they can go outand do a search around. You know the town hall and down by Kipawa- and Isaid Oh okay well when and she's like well, listen we're not going to tell ashirft to her and I'm just going to have him. Do it and I said well when- and she said wellit'll be on Sunday and I'm like Oh, I Selinna I have to take Alex Down toschool. I have to check her into her dorm. Oh that's, okay, she said, don'tworry about I'll, take care of it all I'll, be with him we'll go through andwhatever you know, we'll keep in touch with you through the day and I'mlike.Oh, my God, like I wanted to be thereand she's like Oh, your daughter needs. Youjus Skoki with your daughter, it's Oky, so she said, but he needs some clothesof Bryan's like anything that would have Bryans sent on it. Si said: Ok, Capriy, fine stuff. Shesaid and bring a pair of like his tennis shoes. So I um gathered up what I had. What Ithought would still have a cent on it and I put it in a bag, and she says you know, drop it off tomy house I' taken. You know what I'm GOIN TA call like. I didn't tellher this, but I'm like she's always involved always involved,and I thought you know what I'm going to call him direct and I'm going totake it to him. Soi Did she gave me his name and shemessaged me that morning she said closhes and I messaged her, and I said:Oh I've already dropped them off, Oh okay, so when I dropped them off to thegentleman that wives off Ryan Rodhe has newfendland dogs that he has and he'she's a dog trainer, but he said you know he could possibly pick up a centwhatever with his dogs so Um. I dropped them off and I said, listen Marty. Isaid I want to be updated through the entireday you need to. Let me know you need to. Let me know if you find anything,please keep in touch with me. He said. Oh yes, I will, and I said, okay, I'min yeah, I tolda I'll, be it'll ha say with my daughter. I'm in you know mypholnd Gon. Whatever you need, I don't hear anything. I don't hearanything all day I get home from a House Day. I call him. I said what happened. Why didn't you call mehe said Linda was the conduent? Everything went through her Whoa, so he was Saleta said not to call you.Basically. Ah He said I'm so sorry he goes Linda wasEcond, to wit, everything went through her that wuld be breaking here. If I, if Ican for a moment- and there was an issue about the competence of thissheriff's apartment, which is like on a scale one that can MINUSFI- I shoti yesb yeah- There were there- wasevidence recovered from a dumpster in the vicinity of the town colligs at the plar they recovered.No remember there was a body seam. They recovered on Knive, a bag of receipts and business cardsand and some bloody cows Englos rightand. So would you not being a crevel investigator whic?You not think there might be some connection between a bloody scene and aknife yeah, and I read that of year,...

...blog a little bit so y elaborate onthat they threw it away. They stort it all away, dailn haven. How did you knowabout it? How did you know it was there who told us it was somready Ad Throwinit out in me. I not say how you mog out itter again during one of thoseconversations when these botwasn the sheriff dums, they disposed them yeah. They found it in ID. They say they found it in a cluiserand they took it from the cruiser and threw it in the trash ap the UERstation, and they took the fire station tip thegarbage and dumped it in the domster and they found it in the dumpster. Sothe fire department, vone in the dumpcer or the investigators, then wentand founded in the dumpster, the sheriff's department, but they said itoriginally came from a cruiser and it was. It was in the town hall,Enot, the town hall, but fire station garbage can that Berbage can was taken from them. If the prol she took it from thegarbage and threw it in the big dumpster. You know like to take it out for the trash, and so they recovered it or they foundit right, but then they decided it wasn't evidence and just threw it away.Basically, is that NDLTHEIR conclusion? That's that Baster, the athlete havesince made inqory and h from the VCI Agn, and they don I not on hand, sothey catched it. So you know brilliance right. They they determined. I di't,have anything to do with it. Os, like the Determined Gryan left to go surfingin California yeah, they told me they told me he ran away. He ran away. When did they tell youthat it just drew very early on th t that came out in the articlepretty early and I think that they so y, he was very early cane and they saidwell. We believe he ran away lwith all that blood in the office. No, when youhave a situation where your love one is missing and you can go down this road and youcan believe that either he ran away or it's this road and it's not where you want to go, which would be death, there's two ways: either we ran away orhe's not living Wa Wase Wichwa. Would you want to godown? Okay, I'm going to try to say that then maybe he did run away why hewould Wen away. I have no idea why he would run away, but I would want toBeleve that over the other yeah, so I'm thinking do they have some type ofevidence that says they he ran away. I don't know because if they did there'scertain times like they can't tell you things that they might know, so Istarted to believe that that I guess that's we're, I'm goingwhy. Why would he run away and if he did runt away? Why WTHERE'S THE CON Dosthough? The problem?Is You have a bloody seene? His phone is recovered, as is is hiscar. So what is the means any opportunity to run away rigt? Isn't itnot? No exactly exactly? But if you're, if you have to believe one thingbecause running away means I'll, see him again, raftly I'll see him again.My children will see him again. But if you go down this cat, it's not whereyou want to go, but it's deat. Well, I...

...don't tat C, I understand what you're saying,but as the investing eras, it were Wa Pra, Ove there, r Ain Tat fat. Hedoesn't support that at no well, especially the guy who Imean it doesn't make any sense. They runaway marriage of twenty three years.Three girls very well involved in the community. I mean he's a guy that Imean all of his life revolves around really Madina. I mean you know, he's afootball PA. I mean just you now. You can see that is uch a clear thing of ofthe picture that I think we've all got of him. So I mean yeah th running away,didn't make sense. It didn't make so almost like it histracked in a way youknow, and they immediately bring up that hinkly Um, where the policeofficer went missing and this car was at the l up at Lik Oandah. We put thatout there Um you know J, but but if, if they would have N, if they knew whichthey did the amount of blood at that office, there would have been thereshould be no logical reason. T I see if you guys agree with this. Let me knowthat that they would say that he ran away, but that's what they were telling that's what they wantted me to believe and act. You will findin one of thearticles that sites an unnamed investigatod e claimthat very tin and, on the basis of what fact isunknown to me, no Anyo have to understand yeurs theway these guys treated it at the sheriff's Office. Everything isspeculation, nothing is fact yeah O, so Sar Toti, even user gave me hisdirect cell phone number he's like. If you ever need anything. You just callme, I I'll be able to pick up the fhong. Let me know I called him. He neverpicked up the hount. He said to me at one point. He says youknow. If Brian ran away, he goes I'm really a good friend of his. He goes.He would be the first to call me go and have his phone rigt how's. He going to call you atmost people, don't know your cellphone it's on Mautodial, yeah, so so setnerand Brian. What relationship that you know of with center Brian Brian Did riht along trying Wgoand. He had a pass and access passed to the sherisfs department. He could goup there and talk to them at any time. He didn't me an escort through thebuilding, basically Um, so he could go up there at any time andtalk tostoff attack to them about whatever they were. A police, horce atthetime s, the Shurff department incontract for on our police service. So a lot of times they' have his shoesor you know what the costs we're going to be,whatever whatever they shoot, the breeze. You know he became friendlywith them. He'd go out on Swat calls with that, so so setin or new Brian very well, butdid they ever have any like? Did they go get together outside of working on?I think I think you need Tho back up there. I don't see he knew Brian, verywell, okay, I think I think they were careswork, acquaintances, sure Sur tdid.They go out and do things together now no outside of work, business, no o and then real quick. Let's cover MBrian's job as the wholesale jeweller, so so like in the article as firstcoming out. It was like you know and...

...different people that I personally youknow just kinda like pulling the the community on. You know. Hin Wel, I wonder if it'ssomething to do with that wholesale jeweller. You know that he could havebeen carrying loose diamonds. He could have had a lot of money or or somethinglike that. Can you comment about or give me a little background on br onwhat Brian's job was like what it haddailed, what dangers it had? Brian Brian, wasn't sure to carry thejewelry, though most of the jewelry did not have centre of stones, which thatis changed over the years. Because years ago there was a center stone.That was a reel that I hind, but because of the cost of diamonds and theinsurance and people were getting wrapped, Um they've changed the waythat they would travel so most of what Brian had were mounting, so they would have either cz in the main mounting like. Ifyou want to see what the whole stone looks like, if it had diamonds oneither side, then there would be a eadinthe center, a CCD because it thecost down of the Rin Um, but the sidestones were always real.Those dinots they've also changed the way they were as when they would travelnow they started making the castings they weren't, White, old or yellow goldanymore. They were making them out of Um stirling silver, because tha cut thecost out. So it made the industry less vulnerable to robberies and things likethat because they were cutting the coughs of so ifBrian would go, brain was etheir company manufactured for the store that brain would sell to. Sohe would go into a store and say you know, here's my line. What do you likethe customer would say? Oh give me ten of these ten of these seven of theseand he would distribute them to his stores. So you would have those on hand,or would he ave the go getno now they would order em like his was a sampleline, but the sample line was like, I said, stirling silver andCZ, but then, when it was manufactured it would be sent to them direct and itwould be the real real diamonds with white gold or yellowgold. However, they preferd to so he never delivered it or never took themoney directly. He was just kindof like getting between guys, demonstrating it,showing it yeah. He would sholl the jewelery tothe store he would have hea Brian Deat, with mostly your mom and Topstores,there's other stores that they would r other sales guys. That would do whatthey call the majors, which is your chain stores like Rogers Sterling J DRobinson that type of by and ealt with the momand pop stores.They might have two or three stores, one state MSO. He had states all over eastwestcoast and in between so he would travel out you'd travel by CPLANE, like hewouldn't just travel regionally like to go t h, athlaces, he would travellocally. He had a lot of local customers, but he would also travel Um. You know across the United States,wherever his customers were Watti, he had built a East, a good customer baseover the many years and very trustworthy anybody. You talked to theylove Brian. He was an honest, straightforward guy and theyloved Hem Um Yeah. What dangers with the job Wa. Soobviously you said that you know not...

...caring nearly as much as you you usedto do was for Hei mean you fel through you said at certain times like they gothrough ceckpoint a that they carried it in rollerbag or a large duffle bagmand. They would come in tradies like these plastic trees and the Nabyvelcrowed with like these straps. So he has numerous tres in each stack, Um andthen they'd put them in their like rollerbag R, and they were only insuredup to a certain amount. So they couldn't carry over that because thatwould be a liability, ten, so Um, you know they had an insurance company.That was, you know, ensured them through the company, and but there were times when you would getto the airport and you'd get somebody through tsangle. You know, hey my God. Look at thisjewellery Anhe'd like look at them and say: Could you pleaseshut your mouth like? I don't need a flashingligt at the top of my ad that Ihave a backful of jewelery o no ye, but there was you have to be careful. You know Goininto there were guys that were hitting erap. If I can inteject here too it' knownthat he carried a fire on when he was traveling locally ohy a las on hisvisit as he was stolen during the homicide, MHM, okay, which is you know, and he mad muncs to that we we foundthat out because he, his cousin, has a jewelry store and his cousins son saw look on that Brian was talkingabout Fo, you didn't know about the gun.Until all this has happened, right til killed a cousin, I mean Iknow he has he has he has a coner. I have that and that's in the safe, butthat's not God, but he had a different gun than your your cousin or your'cause. My cousin, his cousins son, saw a different gun that you, Donot Hae, saw agon yeah, and I found that out from his cousin. When I saw in sayingyeah he came to the storm lose and said: Hey did you see the gun? I have gre. I don't know where that is interesting. It's interesting. Theywould take that whenever you know there was no obviously gunshop wounds or anythingwell, I think that he kept te gun in a greentravel bag in the car and is missing. So I don't. I don't have that greentravel bag, so they stole. It is abot of mine, so that gun is missing and-and we know it's not locked up in evidence somewhere right. Well, wedon't know that and the Prao we've Gottai well, they don't have it in thesheriofvice. Yo n Bak sure that, but the reality is that I've been trying tofind the CERIL number, because that gun coul easily te picked up by the policeand sitting in an IVIDENC rool even down, which of course is a good lead tothe homicide. But I can't so far O have not been able to identify the cerealnumber. Okay, so possibly trying about this and it wasn't registered. Is thatwhat you're saying well if he bought it? Well, 's it was a glas. We know that itwas a Gen Cystol, so I went to the manufacturer and said Wat and inquired as to whetheror not he had registered the firearm with the company, which is an option,but they recrecendicate that he did not...

...so that potentially means that hepurchased it either. He didn't fill out the registation card or he purchased itfrom another person right in wic case. There would be no sirearms records atall SOTHAT's Kindo, where we're act, tatter, MHM, okay, Um, so jeor business doesn't seem to be alikely uh lead, possibly to the cause of Isat at all Thatwasnven, don'tbecause he had the jewelry here at the house in in his trees. I don't it was in tha. I believe it wasin the fault or infont of the vault, but they nevercame fom a month after to pick it up. They weren't worried about it. Okay, so he had no jewelery in the car. No, not that I'm aware of MMTAD Bundymurdered my Dad's friends, sister n nineteen nd. Seventy four, while on hisreign of terror in Utah, at least Bundy, admitted to killing her just before hisexecution, but police were never able to locate her body. That's the topic ofjust one episode on straight up: ENIGMAS A podcast to explore theunexplained. We discuss the mysterious deaths of the Jemison family, Sheare,terrifying, true stories from real people about sleep, paralsis andexplore Cleopatra's missing to I'm DD and mccel, and I'm the host of straightup enigmas our white size by weekly episodes, focus on the world'sstrangest mysteries sacred in sonic geometry, the murder of Karen SilkwoodTurcmenistans door to hell the curse of the omen and much more listen andsubscribe at Apple podcasts or wherever you find podcast all right. Well, that's going to do itfor our episode today on next episode, we're going to jump right back in we'rereally KINDOF getting into the meat of these interviews and there's a lotcoming out. I think that in this what we just heard Paul Hartman may havegiven another motive for the Brian Makronmurder. I mean when they'retalking about illegal gun dealings or at least allegedly guns beingdistributed illegally. It's just another angle to a case. That's builtout of angle yeah, we're definitely not lacking for any kind of motives, real quickes housekeeping. I know atthe end of the last episode we said we might I'll be featuring a surpriseinterview. That's still coming down the Rari hope, but do to some schedulingthings we haven't been able to record it yet say toto that and be sure tocheck out our website and invisible shits O os dot com. Right now we have afull oand. We want a year for you yeah, it's really cool, to see the commentsand people are leaving on the L to Ceck it out. Wes, leave us a rating andsubscribe an Itunes that tells thealgori m to let other people knowabout our show and hopefully build our community even more Righ Soallnexte.

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