Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 8 · 1 year ago

Murder Lake 3 : Victoria Macron Interview And More

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We continue our discussion with Victoria Macron and investigator Paul Hartman as they reveal some very interesting details about the initial response from Law enforcement to Bryon Macron's disappearance. We also get a phone call from the guy who repainted Bryon's office. You won't believe what we learn!

It is time for some more invisibleships, podcast we're STUPL, going to be talking about the Brian Macron case andwe're going to be bringing you even more of our interview with VictoriaMackron and her investigator, we'll be picking up right from where we left outwith her interview and will be rolling part too of that. But this is bigbecause inbetween making the last episode in this episode, I think we'vefound another piece of the Jigsal puzzle: I'd Wan, to show you how thatfits. othere short, an oveoewere nar in TeDawn, all Thos Oter, exposit, deections ot. What thatybod ell send there? He isall afraid of OI, Camos and stuff like there was nobod Arizono of the onlymanthat he a wet six pishis e Wowokit Overi wasther. If you thoughtthere was something funny going on with this case right from the beginning enyour rejust wait until Yoher with the guy they brought in to repainted andatual crime scene had to say about what he saw. This is a big episode. It a lotof excited STEF, coming up on invisible ships, T parkin, I'm with DNNI andthern, and we're goingto be talking more about the Brian Makron mystery. I got to let you knowthat in between making the last episode in this one that we're doing now, somuch has happened. We've heard from so many of you guys it's just it's amazing!You guys are fantastic. We have some of the smartest most engaged people inthis community in listening to this show that are really helping us andreally helping the family. A lot of people have been reaching out sharingtheir theories tips, and some of this is led to an interview like we're goingto play an interview with Brian Papavich later on after we roll theVictoria Makron interview and he shed some light on what the scene was likein Bryant's office when he was called to repaint it d to me, it just there'sa really interesting idea out there that maybe alsas a community and as listeners and podcasters that wecould crowd sor some answers for this family and for this mystery that youknow between all of us. There's somebody out there. That knowssomething and we've always maintained that there's people that are going to e,listen t this program. That knows something that they may have thoughtwas too small of a tip. I wasn't a smoking gun, so they didn't go to thepolice, so they didn't go anywhere, but it's always sat in the back of theirminds that Hu. That was strange. We Wan to hear from you M. Obviously, if youhave, you know some real, solid evidence that you know it needs to bekicked up to the next level. You' got to let crime stobbers no first, but wewant to hear from you no matter what, even if you think it's a small littledetail like I said: let's try to crowd source this. We have amazing people inour community. We have amazing people listening to this show and we couldreally get something done. You guys have any thoughts like we always sayeveryone is innocent, proven guilty and we're not making any alegations we'rejust sharing the information that we have colld Um Youknow, especially den TN, a lot of investigation to this we're just trying to sort of crowd fors withall view and which is great 'cause when people people are like liking us in itunes andleaving messages and reviews Thayre, giving us tips that we're Gongna beplaying the audio of m someone that called in based on our Pote Gast toplease keep reaching out 'cause. It's leaving us sa new direction. You knowone of the things I wanted to bring up to you guys wise. We talk a lot about msergeant, Sanford with the paper and getting the cellphone again. I justwanted we reached out to cargin Sanford and I got a reply in between episodeshere. Yes, so I just wanted to read that to you guys, so you no, I reachedout saying that we were doing a podcast and you know that if ye was interestedin interviewing about you know this case, and you know his response wordfor words. I wish I could, but until BCI wraps up the investigation, none ofus can comment when they are finished. I would be happy to we definitelyrespects Org ant Sandford for getting back in touch with us and sending usthat letter and we understand his situation, but we are looking forwardto the day that when we can sit down and talk to him about this case beforewe move on a lot of people, this week have been talking to me about how thefacebook messenger plays an important role in this case, and a lot of peopledidn't seem to totally understand it, and maybe we didn't do a good jobExplaini it I but Derengo a little bit more into detail about the facebookmessenger happened. Why you know it's important to the case to understand so the interesting thing about FacebookMessenger. So we, I think, that's a very important part. We should talkabout facebook messengers, what we believe, Bryan's message that that litup on his phone, that Gopbryan out of bed at two o eight in the morning to godown to the township office. Now after Hugh left ind that very nactive day,...

...his facebook was switched to a memorialfacebook. Now, with that, you can't you can't access messengersblockd now with a court order, you may be able to by g going through facebook,but for us there's no way for us to access to see what happened at facebook,messenger that would have got brin out of bed. That night and Victoria hasstated that she did not do. She did not change his facebook to memorial page.So who did that's the real question? Darin? Are you telling us that somebody changed Frian Markron'sfacebook to a memorial status before they found this bott before an heyodnteven knew he was dead? He's just missing at this point and somebodychanged his facebook Nad understanding, then that we Hameownenon the Lanbmeninniiann and the mainal mane was changing Byerno, the rining Mounain on in en youknow when you know that its mon one in Onanwi mainancement covered on the SiinI mean it. I goin have Beenmornamenurian Victoria was talkingabout ow. She heard that everybody was touching the phone. She mentionedseveral people, and then she had somebody from sheriff's apartment comeback with a second form, not like maybe they're trying to get his phone out ofevidence. You know we can only speculate mewit when there is a warmlaws. You know w. We don't know what an the reason was, but he was you knowMerbetoria. You know trying to Acta the NE number for the toon. That would bethe morning and n no Fasebokn, because you don't like anybody else was aaon.You know when you ne something on your phone Wat. You know, put you right inthe face, but more you could have changed it once it change you andyourmemorial itis. Only the Bunnanes whenyou Angi, an e Mesenger tenwn. Well,so we may never know what that message was that got him out of bed at two inthe morning I mean, maybe a court order, ten bece bog or something like that andinyou know. Maybe no something I don't know. That's just my Notbya mmasnin outnine. You know that Na's, the big misery and h they hold up, and we hadthat. That would be so grucial to this case all right. Let's roll, the second partof the interview, the way with Victor Amerian, before we do that Dane,explain some of th aany choices that we made minor but important. Yes, now, duringthis interview, you're going to hear a couple of portions where a name hismutit out redect redacted- and we did that because we've been reaching out toeveryone that comes up in the various interviews that we do with the peopleinvolved in this case, and we either like we did with certainSanford Regi, ther denial or if they agree to talk to us, you hear them.Talk to us. There's been some cases here where we've reached out buthaven't hand response. So I Oue of respect to them an ID respect to thefact that this is an unsolved case and we don't want to put our wrongfootforward with anything we're just going to remove those names. There you'llstill understand the story easily so immediately day of you lost allconfidence in and who was conducting the investigation come and talk to me and interview me orinterview, my children or my family, or how s? How are we, how AR WE OS keeple?How were we as a family? You know I wanted them. Come in. MyHouse see me see my house see who we are it' him. Those who we are Gennoswere loving. I've been married twenty three years een, Oh what you're goingthrough with him. I was surious. I was serious. That'show I started calling me up bi. I call them right away on the phone and LikSomebodyh's got to help me. I don't know. What's going on, I don'tnowi thisis iline. I don't knowifthis is Co. Something is going on here. Yeah. Oneof the concerns I have is is I mean it seems like the sheriff's Office, prettymuch collected, all the evidence 'cause. When did they turn the case over to theBCI? Okay, so Mik catelloon. The reason I know he wasthere is because he had told me at one point he would top in periodically with Lindalike through those next couple days, and he would come to the House and Um. He said something that yeah he saidthey were. The sures were doing the investigation up there and he said Yeah.They quap the walls for gun residue and this and this ithinking. How would youknow...

...that they were doing t unless she wasprivy to the e waanseeing it he goes? Oh Yeah I saw they were swabbing thewalls for gun residue. We can wait toto the way that the OE meatess Uy said thescene was was her whittict and he would never wish for anyone to see anythinglike it Oka, but then Gotoo those wainsepartment was saeying. Oh yeah, there was some blood on the floor. Andthey TA,Tebe Woul. They be swabbing the walls. If there was only blad on the floor,what were they fobing just random? They would. I would think if somethingwas visibly there. Yeah so tat leads me to believe what heactually the maintenance Y pold. My brother in law, aside the night, the night of the day by wentnessing onthe sixteeth that night I had all the firefighters, came overto offer their condolences Um. They were all standing in my front hallway and I remember whole Daran aside in my dining room, dnat thearn. I think asked him he says: Hey. What did you see like what whatwent on and he's like? Well and that's whan, he made atsleepment that it wasthe most herrific thing you never wished for anyone to see that okaandthen made a comment thatand I resently talke to the othergirl that was the paromedic fire Firean House about it an I siu number one. Shegoes yes. I said I remember looking at you, you're not ot, as well as mine,meet a Statementdon't worrybuddy. I got your backhe said Um, you know whenyou've got something to do, but something about getting up thatmorning to go into workingwhen. You know he Hav to be somewhere, but youcan sleep, he goes, but that was threethirty in the morning and that was another long storyand, I'm like lookingat him going and no one asked like none of us elaborated on it cause wer. Solike what like, I looked at Epril, she looked at me and orm Bous were like no one. Like would no one question anymore. We were Laing Wise, wo, Mi IV, the MANAC sky, Maanc Gar. That was thediscovered the walking on the scenehuand. He was saying that he gotup and boutn around three thirty tht that sixteenth Yeano. I think something that effectlike you know when you're trying to sleep, but you know youavg to besomeone, but that was a three thirty in the morning and that another longstoryand M, who was he saying this too? Just us in the font desert like whathappene? What did you see and he goes well? You know he goes. You know whenyou have to be somewhere, but you can't sleep. He goes, but that was rejurningthe morning thats another long story, something to that effect. In youall thefunner fighters, they were kind of like an Usen in my hallway and anwe werejust like wild, my God Wan you would tehappen. You were so dumbfounded. Ithink that no one was like what do you mean like we? Never. We can't even believe that this ishappening. That Brin is not the gion's missing he's not here, like you can't even gatthem that, but then,when he makes a statement about being up in the Milogi ar yeah about being up in the middle ofthe night, and you know now what sad the thouas at three thirty in themorning and that's notlog story. Thiis there, one maintenance guy forthe township or is there motible maintenance, guys that are in thatbuilding or there's other parts of the crew that go out M, but he apparentlygoes there. So I think he said he gets there justbefore seven thirty in the morning. Is he usually the first one in there yeah?He gets the mail, Um turns on the lights, to the town, Hall Um andwhatever else I don't know exactly what...

...he does and then I only know thatecause I went to a trustee meeting and he made that statement that he he went in and got the mail. What I understand too kind of a loosecannon yeah that there was a news. New ChannelFive came to interview him the day this happened and theyapproached him in the parking lot of the town hall and he went bolitick in apparentlyTracy Cargulos said. Is this what you want becauseI'll put this on the news og an he was like. I guess he kicked him off the propertyand everything and they write away called Linda. That and Linda had to do the apology saying:No, that's not what we want. U He's upset, could you, you know come back orwhatever we'll be right, bad with more of ourinterview with Victoria Merr, but I wanted to take a second just to let youknow about one of our favorite podcast called morfine history yeah. If you'reinto stories about the unexplained, puranormal or supernatural happenings,this is the potcast for you. RENDA is a hose. She does a really good job and wethink you'll like it. If you like, weird and strange history, then I havethe podcast for you. My name is Brenda and I'm the host ofhorrifying history. Are you into the dark side of history? Horrifyinghistory tells you about the side of history that people don't normally talkabout. We talk about the tales of haunted, places infamous true crimes,cursed items and unsolved mysteries, and then we look into the signce anddocumentation to see. Where does the truth actually lie want to get spookywith us? Get your horrifying history fixed by subscribing to horrifyinghistory, which you can find on any major podcaust provider, and he made that weird comment aboutthree in the morning. They so that was the day of that was on still thesixteenth when you had the firefighters to over and give condolences right,CRACP o that was like around the evening, maybe around seven seven, thirty ishand this whole time the firemen were all ready and able to go into a search. Um Brad winter had called me and said:Woat we're going to do with search to be you know, d. You want to be part ofit. I said yes, please. Let me know any information you have. I have familyasking. I have friends e one's hands, an like we're ready and that's why sa Ikept my dacket on, I said just because I wanted to be ready to gowhenever needed. MHM Like I I just couldn't. I couldn't believethis was happening. It's like this. I can't even explain it it's likehorrific and then they wanted to do this search, and Isaid yes, please, let me know they had boats. They had like a boat that youcould take out on Chipala Bey sa we've got everything ready and they cauidon't know if it was the same day they said or the next day, and they said nowe're not allowed to do a search. I said what do you mean and all the Chers Poen won't? Let us doa search, it's weird right, a volunteer searchthere, they're, not letting a job and Brian was a veteran. So I had a veteranagency call me out of North Carolina, sterting rescue team, and she said,there's protocal before a search, and I remember I wellthat was on Sunday because I remember I was at church with the kids a I remember them. I remember getting anno little business car that I grabanything I could 'cause. I couldn't believe this woman. They called me Yan.This was trying to keep things as normal, as I could for the kids and Um. I remember her calling me andshe said, honey. She said there's protocol. Thisis what you need to do and I said Oky she goes. I can contact Hesin Hawaiinow, but he's like a world aow search effort. I and she says I can have him-call you he could fly out to where you are that never transfired by the way,but...

...she was telling me the protocols thatyou have to go through you just don't start a search like you. You have to have someone check.Everybody in you have to take license plates. You have to take. You knowtheir t ID right down WHO's there they're state Ai Uper, so you have areference: Yeah e Ter, Rit, Wot, givany ideas and Um yeah, I mean part Jesssrand. My Costello are alsosearch. I to fly that drown, ok, never took he thrown out never, andthat was one of the reasons why they have the Gron there, r tsing or they had to look forsomebody. You know on cok or they had to do a flight over for a fire orsomething of that nature. They could use the drone to do that. That's whythey had not in the gift of this droat. For those reasons that one of them notone, took that dhrone out HM. Have they commented about that at all why theydidn't tol. I, as think ATS, only like newspaper things I see about the, UKnow Theye well, it was iced over and there was no reason to believe that hewas in the lake was like theyre kind of like official statement. Um. You know I, which is weird because odad and later he's in there you know yeah and it's troubl they playing and they looked m. But in talking toone of the fire chees he's like you know, he can really only look for a heatsource. He said, but sometimes a heat source could be a wog sitting in thewoods that gather heat mhm. So it w D, You know, but a drone you can get incloser. You can look, they never took the Dron and then I did have UMA coupleof weeks later. They told me that the certain rescueout of Um Washington, Courthouse Ohio was where they were from. They are a certified age and see theydo searching rescues. They said they had a boat, they could send skin cellsor the they take the boat out, but they have the dogs that can send skin sellson the cap of the water, and he said we call the shurest apartment twice. They never called us back. He said.Finally, they called the day before New Year's and they said we're coming uptomorrow and they said we'll be there tomorrow to search that's when thesearist department called Dome Back and said. You are not welcome to not comeup here, wow, and that was miller that made thatcallor was that setner do we know who who's blocking that Sirtime srmade thecall they were called, and he said. Finally, he said Cus TalMe Li e calling in finally by the third time the Messenger I left was we'recoming up we'll be there tomorrow, New Year's Eve and year's Day to search an that. Someone called back at thatpoint and said: Do not come up. You not welcome here hm that's, got ta e Golas tating s tofeeling no one's understarded oin rightn. I also had a friend who live inMadina hat. His friend has a he does like dredging and umcertain searchesand lakes and things like whatever they do, um in like the Great Lakes, and he said hecalled his. He called him and he said my friend Um he offered to come and help your family.They would do whatever they need and take soner equipment into the lake freeof charge. There's no cost whatever you need done. They will do in thesheriff's, acartment told them no O multible attempt and and to, andeveryone denied yes now at this point Sheris office. Sothis is h like the first two weeks here of is missing. Um that this all kindohappened right. Let me just step in here again for a moment, and I just soyou're aware that they never conducted a foot search, yeah N, that's what soI'v I've phone interviewed, Um the mayage wall like Ms Ddarrow andthat's. She said that you know th Y,...

...they came in and they were out by noon.So yea, you know somewhere around Atish, they think roughly by then they got thecar painge and gone by noon and nothing further, no tape, no nothing but th atthe crime scene craft. I found about right, MHM, SLA, B, Yeah! Well, an sad!You know. I mean this is the time to together. It almost sounds like theydon't want to gather the information. Doesn't it Crracke well and it was eventhe town hall I had a friend drive paster he's like they don't have anykeap up or anything yeah so and then thewhen did they cleanbecause they put like almost ten thousand dollars into H, cleaning, the town hall right andrecrassing stuff. So my question that I was dinking through and I didn't findwhen did the case- get turned over to the BCI andwhen did that take place as far as the cleaning and 'cause BCI was much laterright. CRRUCT, though cleaning was apparently themaintenance gy had called someone that was a painter they wer already on the job Anddi they call Friday call or Saturday.Do you remember? Well, he tried to get hem right away on Saturday, but okay,stcall Ta. I need you to come here now and he's Ican't bethere. Now, I'm on a job he's like tow. When can you get here at veryforceful and I found that out o e friend alansaid They Wer, painting her onchouse, an e friend was like is iy was so upset and you need it right this. Second, he wanted him to leave his job. He saidyou need to get here now. Hm Itis, like I can't get there now, I'm on a job,and then I think it was by Sunday he came, I'm pretty sure it was Sunday a he said.Well, I can get there on Sunday. Wol sothesurest apartment is tellingMHE at with a little bit of blood on the floor. Why would you have to have apainter, and it was a little bit lot of eorthat painter reached out to us. Wesat down and talked to him. His name is Brian Papafitch and we think you'regoing to be very interested in hearing what he had to say. I was the one that pained at the place:Ok, Theguyi Wassa contractor the contractorthat he called was a Nexicoso. He called me cause also oon everything andthe guy tried to get me to come out the Samenight, the boy next Dayi. I can't do it alf aday after an apess or decomingem like diht away, inoin personal worse than a fongast. Theycan't come in the office with it all Boyan. Everything like that, o those other things about thocast,that's different than my acow wowas there. Here was not that much good. Imean I painted overgad before Kat stays wels I mean there was no god on any of thewets Bo the Seili. There was no clod in the bath wher. I found that in thebedroom in the office, ie just wont sunotes town, eight thousand dollars to Pant Cock onthe office, it orageous of apice. I was nderstanding now on paining joblike ifteen hundred dollars. What's to o to cost six thousand dollars reasonable C it is in the notes of thetrustee meeting. It was like seven thousand nine hundred and some dollarsMOSOWAS for ofthise equipment. I don't see that beingpossibilitysthough, I ha is e talk about paining shopins. I ran notaskenteookversize o leather AAs,big of the manwow. How many like it was it all over the Bactom Orit was stil on.There was a cleaning company that came before I did e sorfcall, so ti got there the office to point thecleaned out, t that was gone. Xack the girls walking into a Namareso the coilslie...

Straighco into his office. It reallywasn't tapting of an Afnice hes. A T past goes into Rois Yeah. You would think right, twodays laterhe, Fostercthan, theprince, then enough, ecause Aldpet, axo suts. So can I back you up? So you said yougot to call you're on a job, and so we're talking to Brian's office wasfound and disarray on Friday. So you would have said you would have got acall on Saturday and you were on a job at the time. Yes and they wanted me tocome on Somday and I tol Hem Noso I came in came in Monday. Ith Me. Hepushed me hard an Il s now. That was your contractor. That pushed you orthat was at Saudio's. TAT was the maintenance, kies yeah, okay, ou orcover is now be honest with you I', really don't okay t guys creap, I don'tlike Hem okay, so he called you in what was it likewhen you were, we were reading in your email? Can you describe what it waslike as you were there? was there anybody else there I got there. Shorene offic showed mewhat needd to be done. I was texplocit directions: Tat, Wat anybody else inthere, hair small frit of on nurse Campras and stuff like that whichnobody ever sewed up. The only pther showed up for six Butshar of SHERF. Okay, Wel RMPLETISHOCK as there, so they didn'tknow that Serpro had already come and cleaned up the crime scene wow interesting, so they were coming tocollect evidence, potentially guess what I assume. I do notknowoixright right, straining my job man theyere in shock, Imean, therwas, there's other cimes aroundhere and everything. I've never seen a crime sing claned up in twenty fourhours s that truck. You is unusual. Yes, ME, too R, TA, Meunusual, Sall. They Bout E inthere o Baing, so fast, yeah, so m. You said your part was likefifteen hundred. You said the paint, don't remember exactlythenext person down good, can't, see: IAVPASTA anquaupasktes, one Deid to the bathroom.An CRSEI was just Therthi Oui, going to the Bachlorjills, a Bou, the bathroom.The blood was like in the sink or Dos Underneathit E. I was underneath to the sides andthere was Spankerprick Dosta did the blood underneath the sink? Would itlooked like? It was like poled in one place or was it like? I hi clatterusplattery s the OL place tat. There was ot in the entire place outside then you said that you painteda lot of places that have been chrimse before so y. This is not the first timepanor hand a crying, see nit painid over bok before okay yeah, that is abig diffeent Fren Titwas, a big freaging difference. You're right, you said that Youca you paintedoverblood. Before so, could you no? You said a therpro hadbeen there and the day cleaned up. Would you beable to tell if there isblood on the walls that you're paintin hat serv roat already cleaned Upyeah, Imean we all absorbd pain, they would abserv on. So I mean you would be AbiDog. It would still stay Alon, so overout s blood on the walls. Yousay really wasn't that bad though it was jus a or foiner o by no pod in theceiling, no bod Mo Tha oce. There was no bod in the office NEARIN, okay Um. So let's talk about how much supervision did you have bylike maintenance? While you were there nohe just wanted herinfast Huh I game.Ot e laughed came in d left...

...anothers wat on. They took me acrossthe way to look at something else, and then, after that I do remember the ascoin antaking more evidence, O theother room. There are Puss pives and everything Ithink noits cot night, the got Nins in a Teashcaab or something like that. I'mnot exactly Sur. We heard about that. We did hear about nives being in atrash, can Um, which is interesting. It didn't show upin any other place, though in the ficial reports or anything IMA. Never ret. ficial reports, like Isaid everything I know, is fomin. I read in the media and stuff like that.Yes, you gride, not more information, ICAST Thaon, the news. Basically,what's t been in the paper, Yeh Gonspntheir Way, totrusty. Obviouslythis t yeah. They said they saw hem going toit. I don't know if they sold actually pull in, though I guess why did they seas toonder? Unless that pers had act? Nowedge, othose, campers at'well, youknow, there's that I mean. I think you also got to take into account. You knowBryan's not going to get out of bed for someone Ho doesn't know right e to MoriIwas. Just talking to my Han a haas, the exact same thing. I thought TSjoubt, that on the person h right, think about that, because youknow doing what you do you might get out of bed. If you're boss is tellingyou you got an emergency two in the mornings or something. But I if I wantyou to do an estimate on my garage, I probably can't GEC youther a tan in themorning, ow they're, the closest to the crime sceneof anyone that we talk to and you'r closest. That is pretty much out thereother than the surroguys. I mean Thertheyare, the FOSS ONS on the Samen.Like I said, I don't know anything about ther I mean, like I said, theOFFICAS complane empty. There was no furnatrinit. There was null for Cotinin I said I was not Botom Ose. There was definitely no Boto e see he justwon the Silkd flush dop, the giy was O, was ent te Pat to Seal Im. What I like about his interview- and Ihope it says something good about our codcast here- is he comes up adifferent point of view and we're airing that different point of view,because were our goal is the truth? Not One narrative, but I think at animportant kind of point about his. His differnt point of view is whathappened between the first citing of the crime scene or the scene of theincident and then when he showed up and dearing what came in between right. Sowe got surf pro coming in and doing the cleaning Um in between painting so andall the carpet was gone too. So you know a I mean the carpet could havebeen a mess and I struggle with I understand what he says about the wall.Ind absorbing blood, but you know from personal experience. If somethinghappens you know it gets plattered onto the wall. I feel like. I can wipe it upt if it's painted that sounds like another story, actually re. We talking about semigloss a lossand seriously that actually makes probably a different e. It E M Way:misery, rice, cleaning Um, so I guess my takeaway is you know the first person who we reon to didn't get a combackfrom that saw the scene Tad. It was the most terrific tcene he'd ever seencorrect, and I also got to remember that if Brian Left, his houst to Awatand didn't at was about four hours, a the townshapaul roughly, is what atleast from sentners timeline. You know there's a lot of time and then therewas m blood also found an the sink. Do you think they have bleached at thetownship hall? I may think theyr cleaing Bro, I mean I would. I can'tsay that for sure, but I would assume that there would be cleaning prides orthe person could have also brockleaning products. We don't know, but you know if there as blood in the sink. That tome seems like a cleanup. You know the boo print is big and we have to trylightly here. Hat's part of the reason why we've been redacting names andstuff, but and along the lines of treating ligtly. I am still open to the possibility thatthis was a strange suicide. I would give that probability very low. Itwould have to be some type of like a hypothermia or like super blood lostkind of reaction. Where you know, maybe Brian got distracted or confused anddrove to the wrong place. So there's te...

...an that's the most anitia. Yes, itassihed e, never heard of I'm not disagreeing aness as soon as I, whereyou hides your own body for months, but I am reacting to the idea that we o hundred percent,have our minds made up we're still open to the possibilities we're always opento where the evidence leads us. I will tell you that I don't. I can't see itbeing that way, an and I struggle with, but you know so. We've got thatbootprint right find up in a in a spot that if someone were to walk in on thescene, prob didn't seem like it would be aspot that you would walk on right. You probably wouldn't really walk on thebehind a fire extinguisher yeah, which was that taken off, but it was thefirst singesure was on the ground when he got there yeah, but I mean was it. Is that whereit, I guess, it wouldn't be stored. There Wa er Singtroff e Wall becausethey pinted the wall, Wer they're, er Ollmaybe, I don't know, but also withgoing bigger. Okay, what about Victoria Account of his height in weight and the account of what was missing atthe time? You know fifty pounds yeah or forty pounds different, and I thoughtyou made a great point in Alutor at a great point. Where would you thinkthey'd get that information? If they don't go to the spouse, it's got to bethe BMIOR, what w? No, what they call itthe DMV Y? No, but that Wan o Alie what she said, but I mean who lies bigger. Imean no one says yeah right. I Ha fifty pounds of my way, not ofity. So so. We've got M Brian with forty more pounds weight and we don'tknow exactly how much height but taller and bigger hy. Now I I'm a big fan ofthe theory of Akam's razor and if anyone doesn't know, that's the ideathat the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, whes Wy thatroles out the S I, which is why that rose out suicide. I agree I just mydevil's Hav Git, but go back to Akama's razors. So the simplest explanation isthat they probably just asked some one nearby how tall and how much he weighedand they probably estimated okay. I would never be flattered ifsomebody close to me put fife forty more P, Weit onandthen agreed, but you know n an all seriousness. Youknow so that could be it now. What about another idea? We've Gat, a largerBOOT print, okay, which you know did Brian even wear boots, isa question inof itself. El We've got a larger bootprint and a larger size of ap of Brian being portrayed right now right. It didn't Victoria evenaddressed the whole boot thing that when they said they had boots, youdidn't know what they were talking about, yeah and that is in a laterepisode, coming up so nary jumping ahead, but good job. So the realquestion is: Why not search the lake? You Know W. I'm sorry, darn le'll goback rightgoing back to the BOO Prin. You know, we've mentioned that it wasfound and it was found pur the interview behind the fireextinguisher. So I just cointo take that to thelogical conclusion. It was found behind the FIR Teama sure, because all theother ones were cleaned and he didn't notice that his bootprint was behindthe fire Xtanguisher. So if we go based off of that, I'm descending B'cause, wedidn't say it thats- probably could be the footprint of the y named county ornowjemeboy. I was going to say that the murderer. That's the only reasonfor unexplained, basically partial bootprint and an otherwise clean room. You know the navy. I think it'ssomething that we should all think about. You know and way that, but alsowe've a six sheriff deputies showing up while he was painting, so are they collecting evidence? Still,let's talk about the elephant in the room, because what did what was thepart of the interview that stook ut the most year and it was when prying thepainter told us that he saw the deputes walk into the room with an evidence bagthat contained a knife wewer that before nice we heard aboutwivh knives being recovered before and never making their way into evidencehaven't we we we have the listeners heaven yet, but but they will corretyeah that that's later to come in the Interet, some correlation to somethingthat is going to be raised later and if it's true and we're not saying it'strue, but that's what we've been told by two different people that if thereare knives being recovered from a scene where a guy was stabbed that don't windup in evidence, I don't know what to think about that. You know. That's that's! Definitelyalarming! The other thing. That's alarming that I thought was s I mean when was this thing? Was this crimethis scene released from t tothe to...

...just paintover, or was this somethingthat someone was pushing along the way to get it hailed, ther's, not plea!Well, yet let me jump in because Betore it does say she saw them swalbing right and they were swabbing the walls. So it sounds like C si made hisVictoria was told that somebody was Waler. Okay, she was told if that wastrue, though once CI is done. They're done that's a question, but I mean to me:That's a little bit alarming, because if the timeline's right and if Saturdaythey cleaned, I mean so that left them a very short amount of time not tomention on on Friday, so you had to have cleared that crime scene, but alsocleared at Chapua Lake and potentially did a search for a missing person allwithin a very short amount of time. How much manpower you know it does 't taketo do that and do it well. Welh Brian Talks about briand the painter, an t,there's too many Brians in the story, bebriding the painter talks about howhe was called in at another time to paint a home where a boyfriend killedhis girlfriend or something like that and a th colazack was shut down forthree days and then here it is where they're tryig to get him to comeimmediately as soon as possible, dro. Whatever he's doing, he had to pushbackto scheduled for a day later and he felt like he was being pressured a lotto to come even earlier, and this is a scene where we'resuspecting Falpla at the very the very least, rigt we've got a missing person,you know and but mean like. You also got to figure like. Why would six shiffdeputyes show up? If you know, em happened if it was not, why were theyshowing up? Was it because the scene wasn't supposed to be cleared again just to go for another and I toalways be double to Avekiey, but thereas, not h? It's a small town. Thismight be the interesting thing going on yeah, but it Wa's either. The scene ofa horrendous Crimeori o nothing but he's also pulling stuff out that wasn'ttaken out before so, obviously they were looking for something they wentinto. Another room looked in the trash can and pulled out a sto. I am veryinterested intentionally, especially we didn't know at that point. Whathappened to briants s? We didn't know that there were stab ones but a knifeand a trash CANNIS. I think fairly you're right, very fishy, very fishyso. I think we got to talkabout searching the lake, so why not at least fly the drum? What's holding you back from that I've never known a lanforsemanaense notto want to play with the cool new toy that they ere able to get. You know youknow if we're talking to cost value, there's NO COSTRA RM! No and again, ifyour goal was really just to get as much evidence as possible that you couldfind probably five people with trones within like a stones. Throwt of thatlocation that would be more than happty o come up. 'cause. It's a hobby peopleenjoy doing that. The only thing I can think again for, like a kind of a deviled, advocate explanation, as maybejust the paperwork took too long. But honestly I don't have a G. I do nothave a god explain. There is no eqation there isn't and it'. It's sad because Imean well. First of all, we don't know if Brian was really there or not. Wedon't know if, if that happened, that night or if he was somewhere else tillthings calm down and then placed in there later, I and there's no way toidentify you running over backwards to try to be fair on Tio, but there's nogood explanation to why they didn't fly the drum there's, none o Hav goodexelation. For then nd come up with one. I was quoting Whhartman, they retiredfederal investigator on Wk was LICI. I don't want to take us too far off track,but I think this is a good, maybe chuckpoint darn. Where do youthink Bryan's body was during this time period you non? I you know it's banest with you. I alwaysthought that he was somewhere in the inlets at that this point. Hearing all kind of talk about that, and wedidn't really talk about whether he was in there right off the bad or not. Youknow it does make sense to to hold back, let things calm down and then release. I think that the people that could havebeen a part of this ere not expecting in February forto besuch awarmfenruary and that's so. I think that they thought they had moretime by putting HMEM whatever they did case. We got a whole lot more coming upfor you with Victoria Makrin and her investigator in the next episode. Wehave an exciting surprise interview. Somebody else I don't want to give itall away, but he puts US really close to some important action in this case.You've got a lot more coming up, so just keep fallwing us on itunes andspot if fi, runt, wit or atchips...

...invisible. If you have any tips sentinto crime stoppers you olk authorities, there is a ten thousand dollar rewardbeing offered through crime stoppers. Anyone with information should call twoone: six, two, five, two seven, four, six three also let us know we've beengetting some ratnew information from our listeners and from the people thatwere paying attention to to time. Butlike Rick said never told anyone andeverything we get. We share with the family and with their investigator, butthis is important because the more that we get out there, the more that peopleher Victoria macron story, the more momentum we're building and it'sstarting to show, there's some exciting stuff in the works that I can't talkabout yet, but just keep it up, keep doing what you're doing you guys out.There are amazing: We love the engagement, we love how smart you are.You could also find this on facebook and we have our own web page andvisible,ships, opodcast OCOM. We check all of our media, so if you have a tip or anidea, get a hold of it and we'll get back to Yo and that just wrap up thatinvisible ships, cotcast dotcom as a great resource is where we're puttingall our information. There's a timeline on there and we're going to keepupdating that as we get new data yo Ma we'll see you next time see you nexttime.

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