Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 8 · 1 year ago

Murder Lake 3 : Victoria Macron Interview And More

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We continue our discussion with Victoria Macron and investigator Paul Hartman as they reveal some very interesting details about the initial response from Law enforcement to Bryon Macron's disappearance. We also get a phone call from the guy who repainted Bryon's office. You won't believe what we learn!

It is time for some more invisible ships podcast. We're still going to be talking about the Brian Macron case and we're going to be bringing you even more of our interview with Victoria macrin and her investigator. Will be picking up right from where we left off with her interview and we'll be rolling part two of that. But this is big because in between making the last episode in this episode, I think we found another piece of the Jigsaw puzzle. I'm going to show you how that fix special directions to let anybody else in theirs. All freedoms and stuff like that. Nobody ever showed up. Sure, okay, well, that I was there. If you thought there was something funny going on with this case right from the beginning, and you're correct, just wait until you hear with the guy they brought in to repaint an actual crime scene has to say about what he saw. This is a big episode with a lot of exciting stuff coming up on invisible ships podcast. I'm with Danny and Darren and we're going to be talking more about the Brian macron mystery. I got to let you know that in between making the last episode in this one that we're doing now, so much has happened. We heard from so many of you guys. It's just it's amazing. You guys are fantastic. We have some of the smartest, most engaged people in this community and listening to this show that are really helping us and really helping the family. A lot of people have been reaching out sharing their theories, tips and some of this has led to an interview, like we're going to play an interview with Brian Popovich later on after we roll the Victoria macron interview, and he shed some light on what the scene was like in Brian's office when he was called to repaint it. To me, it just there's a really interesting idea out there that maybe us as a community and as listeners and podcasters, that we could crowds or some answers for this family and for this mystery that, you know, between all of us, there's somebody out there that knows something, and we've always maintained that there's people that are going to be listening to this program that knows something that they may have thought was too small of a tip. It wasn't a smoking gun, so they didn't go to the police, they didn't go anywhere, but it's always set in the back of their minds at Huh, that was strange. We want to hear from you, obviously if you have, you know, some real solid evidence that you know it needs to be kicked up to the next level. You got to let crime stoppers know first, but we want to hear from you no matter what, even if you think it's a small, little detail. Like I said, let's try to crowdsource this. We have amazing people in our community, we have amazing people listening to this show and we could really get something done. You guys have any thoughts? Like we always say, everyone is innocent felt proven guilty, and we're not making any allegations. We were just sharing the information that we have cold you know, especially Daren's done a lot of investigation to this. We're just trying to sort of crowdsource with all view and which is great because when people people are like liking us on itunes and leaving messages and the reviews are giving us tips that we're going to be playing the audio of someone that called in based on our podcast to. So please keep reaching out, because it's leaving us a new direction. You know, one of the things I wanted to bring up to you guys, was we talked a lot about Sergeant Stanford with the paper and getting the cell phone again. I just wanted to we reached out to Sergeant Sandford and I got to reply in between episodes here yes so I just wanted to read that to you guys. So you know I reached out saying that we were doing a podcast and you know that if you was interested in interviewing about, you know, this case and you know his response word for word is I wish I could, but until PC I wraps up the investigation, none of us can comment. When they are finished, I would be happy to. We definitely respect stars and Sanford for getting back in touch with us and sending us that letter and we understand his situation, but we are looking forward to the day that when we can sit down and talk to him about this case before we move on. A lot of people this week have been talking to me about how facebook messenger plays an important role in this case and a lot of people didn't seem to totally understand it and maybe we didn't do a good job explaining it, but during go a little bit more into detail about the facebook messenger happened. Why? You know, it's important to the case to understand. So the interesting thing about Facebook Messenger. So we I think that's very important part we should talk about. FACEBOOK MESSENGER is what we believe Brian's message, that that lit up on his phone that got Brian out of bed at two hundred and eight in the morning to go down to the township office. Now, well after he left, and that very next day his facebook was switched to a memorial...

...facebook. Now with that the you can't see, you can't access messenger. It's blocked. Now with the court order you may be able to by get going through facebook, but for us there's no way for us to access to see what happened at Facebook Messenger. That would have got brian out of bed that night and Victoria has stated that she did not do she did not change his facebook to memorial page. So who did? That's the real question, Darren. Are you telling us that somebody changed Brian Markrans facebook to the memorial status before they found his body, before anyone even knew he was dead? He's just missing at this point and somebody changed his facebook? That's understanding that that we have. So yeah, so the facebook message we can't access and the facebook page was changed prior to the bride being found. That we don't know. Get that. You know what we do? You know that his phone was in the office which made its man discovered on the sixteen. So, I mean that could have been a port of entry into his facebook. Victoria was talking about how she heard that everybody was touching the phone. She mentioned several people and then she had somebody from sheriff's apartment come back with a second form. Sound like maybe they're trying to get his phone out of evidence. Yeah, you know, we can only speculate. I mean, was the was original port lost? You know what? We don't know what the reason was, but he was, you know her Victoria, you know, trying to access the serial number for the cell phone. That would be the port to get into a facebook because you know, like anybody else, has facebook, you know when you just open up your phone, but you know, put you right into facebook where you could have changed it. Once it's changed, you into a memorial. It is only the fun page and you can't get into Messenger at the point. Wow. So we may never know what that message was that got him out of bed at two in the morning. I mean maybe a court order to facebook or something like that. I think they probably could, you know, maybe do something. I don't know. That's just my thoughts us, but yeah, for us on the outside, you know that that's the big mystery and the big hold up in it. If we had that, that would be so crucial to this case. All right, let's roll the second part of the interview that we have with Victoria Americran. Before we do that, do you explain some of the editing choices that we made, minor but important? Yes, so during this interview you're going to hear a couple portions where a name is muted out, redacted, redacted, and we did that because we've been reaching out to everyone that comes up in the various interviews that we do with the people involved in this case and we either, like we did with certain Stanford, read you their denial or, if they agree to talk to us, you hear them talk to us. There's been some cases here where we've reached out but haven't had a response. So, out of respect to them and out of respect to the fact that this is an unsolved case and we don't want to put our wrong foot forward with anything, we're just going to remove those names. There, you'll still understand the story easily. So immediately they of you launst all confidence in and who is conducting the investigation? Yes, even come and talk to me and interview me or interview my children. Are My family? Or how is how are we? How are we as people? How were we as a family? Yeah, Hi, you know, I wanted them come in my house, see me, see my house, see who we are it. Jim knows who we are. Gym knows were loving and we've been married twenty three years and even a fadom what you're going through with it. Oh, I was furious. I was serious. That's why I started calling the FBI. Call them right away on the Oh, I'm like, somebody's got to help me. I don't know what's going on. I don't know if this is a pipeline. I don't know if this is corruption. Something is going on here. Yeah, one of the concerns I have is is I mean it seems like the sheriff's Office pretty much collected all the evidence, because when did they turn the case over to the BCI? Okay, so Mike Costello, and the reason I know he was there is because he had told me at one point he would pop in periodically with Linda, like through those next couple days, and he would come to the house and he said something that. Yeah, he said they were the shares for doing the investigation up there and he said, yeah, they swap the walls for gun residue and this in this taking. How would you know that they were doing that...

...unless he was privy to thea you were there and seeing it. He goes, Oh, yeah, I saw they were swabbing the walls for gun residue. Okay, a way, that the the way that the maintenance guy said the scene was was horrific and he would never wish for anyone to see anything like it. Okay, but then cattell all those waters department was saying, Oh yeah, there was some blood on the floor and they say they the very swabbing the walls. If there was only blood on the floor, what were they swabbing? Just random that would swab, I would think if something was visibly there. Yeah, so that leads me to believe what he actually the maintenance guy pulled my brother in law aside the night, the night of the day Brian went missing on the sixteen. That night I had all the firefighters came over to offer their condolences. They were all standing in my front hallway and I remember pulled Darren aside in my dining room, for they are at there, and I think asked him, says, Hey, what did you see? Like what what went on? And he's like well, and that's when he made that statement that it was the most horrific thing. Never was sure anyone to see that, okay, and and then made a comment that and I recently talked to the other girl that was a paramedic fire fire pounce about it and I said you remember when he said that she goes. Yes, I said, I remember, looking at you. Your good Joct as well as my made a statement that don't worry, buddy, I got your back. He said, you know when you've got something to do, but something about getting up that morning to go into work anymose when you know he have to be somewhere but you can't sleep. He goes, but that was thirty in the morning and that's another long story. And I'm looking at him going and no one asked, like none of us elaborated on it because we were so like what like? I looked at April, she looked at me and our mouths were like so, and no one like, no one question anymore. We were like what the WHO is a mean sky maintenance guy that was that discovered the walking on the scene? Uh Huh. And he was saying that he got up and thought in around three hundred and thirty that that film the sixteen. Yeah, a interesting said. You know what you know? I think something that the effect, like, you know, when you're trying to sleep but you know you have to be somewhere, he said, but that was at three hundred and thirty in the morning, and that's another long story. And who is he saying this too, just us in the front, because they're like what happened? What did you see? An he goes. Well, you know, he goes. You know when you have to be somewhere but you can't sleep, he goes, but that was thirty in the morning. That's another long story, something to that effect. And we, all of us, the firefighters, they were kind of like in the U shape my front hallway and and we were just like why, Oh my God, what? Yeah, what, like we were so dumbfounded, I think that no one was like what do you mean? Like we never we can't even believe that this is happening that Brian is not the Brian's missing. He's not here, like you can't even fathom that. But then when he makes his statement about being up in the middle of nights, are what's that? Yeah, about being up in the middle of the night, and you know now what's that? That was a three hundred and thirty in the morning and that's another long story. This. Is there one maintenance guy for the township? ORS are multiple maintenance guys that are in that building or there's other parts of the crew that go out, but he apparently goes there. So I think he said he gets there just before thirty in the morning. Is he usually the first one in there? Yeah, he gets the mail, turns on the lights to the town hall and whatever else. I...

...don't know exactly what he does and I only know that because I went to a trustee meeting and he made that statement that he he went in and got the mail. What I understand to kind of a loose cannon. Okay, yeah, that there was a news new channel five came to interview him the day this happened and they approached him in the parking lot of the town hall and he went ballistic. Oh and apparently Tracy Carlos said, is this what you want, because I'll put this on the news, okay, and he was like, I guess. He kicked them off the property and everything, and they right away called Linda then and Linda had to do the apologies, saying no, that's not what we want. He's upset. Could you, you know, come back or whatever? Will be right back with more of our interview with Victoria Americran, but I wanted to take a second just to let you know about one of our favorite podcasts called horrifying history. Yeah, if you're into stories about the unexplained, paranormal or supernatural happenings, this is the podcast for you. Brenda is the host. She does a really good job and we think you'll like it. If you like weird and strange history, then I have the podcast for you. My name is Brenda and I'm the host of horrifying history. Are you into the dark side of history? Horrifying history tells you about the side of history that people don't normally talk about. We talked about the tales of haunted places, infamous true crimes, cursed items and unsolved mysteries, and then we look into the science and documentation to see where does the truth actually lie? Want to get spooky with us? Get your horrifying history fix by subscribing to horrifying history, which you can find on any major podcast provider. And he made that weird comment about Zree in the morning. They so that was the day of that was on still the sixteen when you had the firefighters come over and give condolences, right correct. That was like around the evening, maybe around thirty s and this whole time the firemen were all ready and able to go and do a search. Brad winter had called me and said, look at we're going to do a search to be you know, do you want to be part of it? I said yes, please, let me know any information you have. I have family asking, I have friends, every one's hands on, like we're ready, and that's why I said I kept my jacket on, I said, just because I wanted to be ready to go whenever needed. Hmm, like I just couldn't I couldn't believe this was happening. It's like this, I can't even explain it. It's like horrific. And then they they wanted to do this search and I said yes, please, let me know they had boats. They had like a boat that you could take out on chippawaw. They said we've got everything ready and they called it back. I don't know if it was the same day they said, or the next day and they said no, we're not allowed to do a search. I so, what do you mean? All the cheers, parent won't let us do a search? That's weird, right, a volunteer search. They're they're not letting a job. And Brian was a veteran. So I had a veteran agency call me out of North Carolina, from search and rescue team and she said there's protocol before searched and I remember, I well, that was on Funday, because I remember I was at Church with the kid and I remember them. I remember getting a note, little business card there. I grab anything I could could I couldn't believe this woman had called me and this was trying to keep things as normal as I could for the kids and I remember her calling me and she said honey, she said there's protocol, this is what you need to do, and I said okay, and she goes, I can contact us in Hawaii now. But he's like a world renown search effort guy and she says, I can have him call you, he could fly out to where you are. That never transpired, by the way, but she...

...was telling me the protocols that you have to go through. You just don't start a search like you. You have to have someone check everybody in. You have to take license plates, you have to take, you know, there's staid right down who's there, their state of ad number, so you have a reference. Yeah, they're giving the ideas and yeah, I mean Sandford and my Castello are also certified to fly that drone. Okay, and they never took the drone out. Never, and that was one of the reasons in why they had the drone. There were curious seeing or they had to look for somebody, you know on food, or they had to do a flight over for a fire or something of that nature. They could use the drone to do that. That's why they had gotten the gift of this drone. For those reasons, not one of them, not one, took that drone out. HMM. Have they commented about that at all? Why they didn't know, I think, is only like newspaper things I see about the you know, they say like well, the it was iced over and there was no reason to believe that he was in the lake. was like they're kind of like official statement, you know, which is which is weird, because in bed later he's in there, you know. Yeah, and this trouble. They playing and they looked, but in talking to one of the fire cheese he's like, you know, it can really only look for a heat source, he said, but sometimes the heat source could be a log sitting in the woods. That's gather heat. M So it would, you know, but a drone you can get in closer, you can look. They never took the drone. And then I did have a couple weeks later. They told me that the search and rescue out of Washington Court House, Ohio, is where they were from. They are a certified agency. They do searching rescues. They said they had a boat, they could send skin cells or the they take the boat out, but they have the dogs that can send skin cells on the top of the water. He said. We called the sheriff's Department twice. They never called us back. He said. Finally they called the day before New Year's and they said we're coming up tomorrow and they said will be there tomorrow to search. That's when the sheriff's department called them back and said you are not welcome, do not come up here. Wow, and that was miller that made that call or that set nerd? We know who who's blocking the SIRT. I'm not sure who made the call. They were called Okay and he said. Finally, he said, because fill me like calling and finally, by a third time, the message I left was we're coming up, will be there tomorrow, New Year's Eve and new years. Stay to search and there was an AL said someone called back at that point and said do not come up, you are not welcome here. That's got to be savastating to feel like no one's on your side of the point. Right, yes, and then I also had a friend who lives in Medina at his friend has a he does like dredging and certain searches and lakes and things like whatever they do in like the Great Lakes, and he said he called his he called them and he said, my friend, he offered to come and help your family. They would do whatever they need and take sonar equipment into the lake free of charge. There's no cost. Whatever you need done, they will do and the sheriff's apartment told them. No. So multiple attempts and and knows, and everyone denied. Yes, now at this point shares off it. So this is like the first two weeks here of its missing, that this all kind of happened. Right. Let me just step in here again for a moment and just so you're aware, that they never conducted a foot search. They said in that what. So I've phone interviewed the Mayor Topa like Mrs Dodaro, and that's what yes, she said that. You know, they came in and they...

...were out by noon. So yes, you know, somewhere around a dish, they think, roughly by the time they got the car pained and gone by noon. And nothing further. No tape, no, nothing at the at the crime scene. Correct. It sounds about right, proby PROBB. Yeah, well, in sad you know. I mean this is the time to to gather with almost sounds like they don't want to gather the information, doesn't it correct? Well, and it was even the town hall. I had a friend drive pastor he's like, they don't have any teapop or anything. Yeah, so, and then when? When did they clean? And because they put like almost tenzero dollars into cleaning the town hall right in reprising stuff. So my question that I was digging through and I didn't find. When did the case get turned over to the BCI and when did that take place? As far as the cleaning, and because BCI was much later. Right correct. So cleaning was apparently the maintenance sky hit. Called someone that was a painter and they already on the job. Did they call Friday, Paul, or Saturday? Do to remember? Well, he tried to get them right away on Saturday, but ultimate okay, Saturday. Called them and he said I need you to come here now, and he's can't be there now, I'm on a job. He's like, well, we need you now. When can you get here? was very forceful and I found that out a friend Alden said they were painting her friends house. To the friend was like this guy was so upset. That and why you need it right this second right. He wanted him to leave his job. He said you need to get here now, HMM, and he's like, I can't get there now, I'm on a job. And then, I think it was by Sunday he came, correct, I'm pretty sure it was Sunday, and he said well, I can get there on Sunday. Wow. So if the sheriff's apartment is telling me that it was a little bit of blood on the floor, why would you have to have a painter that it was a little bit of blood out of the floor? That painter reached out to us. We sat down and talk to him. His name is Brian Popovitch and we think you're going to be very interested in hearing what he had to say. I was a lawn that painted to place. Okay, all the guy, I was all a sub contract paint some contractor. The contractor that he called was in Mexico, so he called me because I was stilling Ohio and everything, and the guy tried to get me to come out like that same night, y or the bully next day, and I'm like, I can't do it, as to be a day after you. He pressed are to come in there like right away and kept blaming the person at works in the front gast they can't come in the office with it all blood and everything like that. Okay, there's a couple of things about the podcast that's different than my account, but I was there. There was not that much blood. I mean I painted over blood before. Blood stains waltz. I mean there was no blood on any of the waltz or the ceiling. There's more blood in the Bathroo when I found than in the bedroom or in the office. Like I said, I just wrote some notes down. The eightzero to paint carpet that little office. That's outrageous of a price. I'm much understanding that one. I mean the painting job is like fifteen hundred dollars. What's the carpet cost? Six thousand dollars, reasonable call. It is in the notes of the trustee meeting. I was like seven thousand nine hundred and some dollars, unless it was for office equipment. I don't see that being a possibility. So next though I have is they talked about finding shoe prints. I found a bootprint, not a shoe print, and the bootprint I wear a size eleven. It was bigger than that. Wow, how many like it was it all over this aftermer was just one. There was a cleaning company that came before I did. Okay, so serve pro so. When I got there the office is completely cleaned out. The carpet was gone, because I figured I was walking into a nightmare. Yeah, so the group print...

...was like if you walk down the hall, if you walk in, if you go straight, you going into his office. It really wasn't that big of an office. There's a door to the last that goes into the maintenance area. Right in front of that door, behind a fire, stequis sure there's a half of, I can't say three cours of a bootprint. Another thing is their car. You know how they said they found the car within a couple hours. Yeah, there's snow on the ground. You should have been able to there. Should be able found a bootprint. Yeah, you would think right, all right. Well, then two days later he small store pat and then the freeze, because why? It makes no sense. So can I back you up? So you said you got a call. Your on a job, and so we're talking to Brian's office was found in dissarray on Friday. So you would have said you would have got a call on Saturday and you are on a job at the time. Yea, and they wanted me to come on Sunday and I told him know. So I came in Monday. Came in Monday with me hard come out say now that was your contractor that pushed you, or that was that somebody else that was the maintenance sky. Yeah, okay, I'll remember his nail. Be Honest with you, I really don't. Okay, the guys a creep I don't like. Okay. So he called you in. What was it like when you were we were reading your email. Can you describe what it was like as you were there? was there anybody else there? I got there show for the office showed me what needed to be done. I was under the explicit with directions, and that's let anybody else in there. Here's all freedom, there's cameras and stuff like that, which nobody ever showed up. The only people that showed up for six CRICKT share of sheriffs. Okay, well, look it over there are completely in shock that I was there. So they didn't know that serve pro it already come and cleaned up the crime scene. Correct, wow, interesting. So they were coming to collect evidence, potentially. That's what I assume. I do not know. Okay, that's I mean. Like when you see six cops come in and surround right right stret to my job. Man, they were in shock. I mean it, there was. There's other crimes around here and everything. I've never seen a crime scene cleaned up in twenty four hours. So that struck you is unusual. Yes, me too, I was really struck. Me Usual how they want to be in there to paint so fast. Yeah, so you said your part was like one thousive hundred. You said the paint. I don't remember exactly. The next person down. Okay, you know I'm saying in my ball I have a boss that collected money and I then he collects them. I'm pretty good to ask them. That's about product hundred because I had to do the bathroom and originally it was just the office, but House I had going to the bathroom with paint. Jill's about the bathroom. The blood. was that like in the sink or it was underneath it? I was underneath it to the sides and there's finger prick dost everywhere. Did the blood underneath the sink would look like it was like pulled in one place or was it like a splatter? This splatter kind of splattery? That was the only place that there was blood in the entire place. HMM, except for the foot outside. And you said that you've painted a lot of places that have been crime scenes before, so you this not the first time you paint on a crime seat. I painted over blood before. Okay, yeah, that is a big difference. This is a big freaking difference. You're right, but you said that. Okay, you painted over blood before. So could you know? You said that Sir pro would been there and that they cleaned up. Would you be able to tell if there was blood on the walls that you're painted it served roulde already cleaned up? Yeah, I mean walls absorber pain. They would absorb blood. Okay, so I mean you able to wipe it off, but it would still stay a wall. So overall, the sub blood on the walls, you say, really wasn't that bad. Oh, but just that much on the ceiling over the office. There was no blood in the office period. Okay. So let's talk about the how much supervision did you have by like maintenance while you were there? He just wanted he hand fast, Huh, left. came in left.

And then there's one time they took me across the way to look at something else. And then after that I do remember the cops come in and taking more evidence from the other room. There are a bunch of knives and everything. I think nice found. They found knives in a trash can or something like that. Exactly sure. We heard about that. We did hear about knives being in a trash can. Okay, so, which is interesting. They didn't show off in any other play. So in the Fisher reports or anything. I've never reficial reports or anything. Like I said, everything I know is from what I read in the media, stuff like that. This, yes, more information outcast that what I found on the news. Basically. What's it been in the paper? One other thing? Yeah, I forget. God, they see his vehicle pull into their right to the trustee hall. Obviously there's cameras that seem pull it. They yeah, they said they saw him going to it. I don't know if they saw him actually pull in, though, is why didn't they see anybody else pulling there, unless that person headed active knowledge of those cameras? That's well, you know, there's that. I mean, I think you also got to take into account, you know, Brian's are going to get out of bed for someone he doesn't know rights to in the morning. That was thought. I was just talking to my Hans about that as the exact same thing I thought of. You know, sky ain't going to get out of bed unless nw the person Ye got him out of breath right. Think about that because you know, doing what you do, you might get out of bed if your boss is telling you got an emergency at two in the morning or something. But you know, I gonna if I want you to do an estimate on my garage, I'm probably can't get you here at two in the morning. No, mom, the really closest to the crime scene of anyone that we talked to and your closest that is pretty much out there, other than the surfer guys. I mean you were there. Yeah, they were the first ones on the scene. Like I said, I don't know anything about that. I mean, like I said, the office was completely empty. There was no furniture in it, there was no their company it. But, like I said, there was no blood on the walls. There was definitely no blood on the ceiling. He just wanted to see for us at all. Okay, that was no reason to paint the ceiling. What I like about his interview, and I hope it says something good about our podcast here, is he comes with the different point of view and we're airing that different point of view because we're our goal is the truth, not one narrative. But I think an important kind of point about his his different point of view is what happened between the first sighting of the crime scene or the scene of the incident, and then when he showed up and Darren, what came in between? Right, so we got a of pro coming in and doing the cleaning in between painting. So in all the carpet was gone to. So you know, and I mean the carpet, could have been a mess. And I struggle with I inderstand what he says about the wall and absorbing blood, but you know from personal experience, if something happens on you know it gets splattered onto the wall, I feel like I can wipe it up with if it's painting, that sounds like another story. Actually, what did you do that wall? I mean, what are we talking about? SEMI GLOSS LOSS? I mean that seriously, that actually makes probably a different it doesn't make this first cleaning Um. So I guess my takeaway is, you know, the first person who we reached out to didn't get a comeback from that saw the scene, that it was the most rific scene he'd ever seen. Correct. And now you also got to remember that if Brian left his house at to a weight and didn't. It was about four hours at the township, Paul. Roughly is what at least from Sett Nur's timeline, you know, there's a lot of time. And then there was blood also found in the sink. Do you think they have bleached at the township all? I mean think they have cleaning products? I mean I would. I can't say that for sure, but I would assume that there would be cleaning products or the person could have also brought cleaning products. We don't know, but you know, if there was blood in the sink, that to me seems like a clean up. You know, the print is big and we have to try lightly here. It's part of the reason why we've been redacting names and stuff. But, and along the lines of treading lightly, I'm still open to the possibility that this was a strange suicide. I would give that probability very low. It would have to be some type of like a hypothermia or like super blood loss kind of reaction where, you know, maybe Brian got distracted or confused and drove to the wrong place. So there's a very outside cance that's most that Dick Nus yes, suicide ever heard of? I'm not disagreeing,...

...and this is suicide where your hide your own body for months. But I am reacting to the idea that we a hundred percent have our minds made up. We still open to the possibilities. We're always open to where the evidence leads us. I will tell you that I don't, I can't see it being that way and I and I struggle with but you know, so we've got that bootprint right find in a in a spot that, if someone were to walk in on the scene, probably doesn't seem like would be a spot that you would walk on right. You probably wouldn't really walk on them behind a fire extinguisher. Yeah, which was that taken off? But it was the fire stingerisher was on the ground when he got there. Yeah, but I mean was it is that where? With? I guess it wouldn't be stored there. Why was a hard stinger? Sure, off the wall, because they paid to the wall, or they are the wall, maybe, I don't know. But also with going bigger. Okay, what about Victoria? Account of his height and weight and the account of what was missing at the time? You know, if fifty pounds, yeah, or forty pounds different, and I thought you made a great point and alsopoetry made a great point. Where would you think they'd get that information? If they don't go to the spouse, it's got to be the BM or what we're know. What's it called? The DMV. But but that one. People lie. But she said. But I mean who lies bigger? I mean no one says yeah, right, fifty pounds of my weight not off it. Yeah. So, so we've got Brian with forty more pounds weight and we don't know exactly how much height. But Taller and bigger. Why? Now? I I'm a big fan of the theory of Okham's razor and if anyone doesn't know, that's the idea that the simplest explanation each usually the correct one. Was Why? That rules out suicide, which is why that rules out suicide. I agree. I just play Devil's Dead Kate. But come back to Akham's razor. So the simplest explanation is that they probably just asked someone nearby how tall and how much he weighed and they probably guesstimated. Okay, I would never be flattered if somebody close to me put fifteen more, forty more bad weight of the agreed but you know it all all seriousness, you know. So that could be it. Now what about another idea? We've got a larger BOOT print, okay, which you know, did Brian even wear boots is a question in and of itself. But we've got a larger bootprint and a larger size of a of Brian being portrayed right now, right it. Didn't Victoria even address the whole boot thing that when they said they had boots, you didn't know what they were talking about. Yeah, and that is in a later episode coming up. So sorry jumping ahead, but good job. So the real question is, why not search the lake? You know what? I'm sorry, Darren. Let's go back. Okay, going back to the bootprint, you know, we've mentioned that it was found, and it was found, you for the interview, behind the fire extinguisher. So I'm just going to take that to the logical conclusion. It was found behind the fire extinguisher because all the other ones were cleaned and he didn't notice that his bootprint was behind the fire extinguisher. So if we go based off of that, I'm just saying it because we didn't say it, that's probably could be the footprint of the one named county, her township and boy, I was going to say that the murderer. That's the only reason for unexplained basically partial bootprint in an otherwise clean room. You know, maybe I think it's something that we should all think about, you know, and way that. But all so with six sheriff deputies showing up while he was painting. So are they collecting evidence still? Well, let's talk about the elephant in the room, because what did? What was the part of the interview that s took up the most to you, and it was when Brian, the painter, told us that he saw the deputies walk into the room with an evidence bag that contained a knife. We heard that before. Knives, we heard about. We've knives being recovered before and never making their way into evidence, haven't we? We have the listeners. Haven't yet, but but they will correct yeah, that that's later to come in the Internet, some correlation to something that is going to be raised later. And if it's true, and we're not saying it's true, but that's what we've been told by two different people, that if there are knives being recovered from a scene where guy was stabbed that don't wind up in evidence. I don't know what to think about that. You know, that's that's definitely alarming. The other thing that's alarming that I thought was as I mean, when was this thing? Was this crime, this scene, released from to the to just paint over,...

...or was this something that someone was pushing along the way to get it handled? That's not play. Well, yeah, let me jump in, because victory does say she saw them swabbing right, and they were swabbing the walls. So it sounds like CSI made his Victoria was told that somebody was spotherers you show case, she was told. If that was true, though, one CSI is done. They're done. That's a question. But I mean to me that's a little bit alarming because if the timeline is right and if Saturday they cleaned, I mean so that left them a very short amount of time, not to mention on on Friday. So you had to have cleared that crime scene but also cleared at Chipewa Lake and potentially did a search for a missing person, all within a very short amount of time. How much manpower, you know it, does it take to do that and to do it well? Well, see, right, Brian Talks about it. Brian, the painter, and there's too many Brian's in the story. But Brian the painter talks about how he was called in at another time to paint a home where a boyfriend killed his girlfriend or something like that, and at the Cold Szac was shut down for three days. And then here it is where they're trying to get him to come immediately, as soon as possible, drop whatever he's doing. He had a push back to schedule for a day later and he felt like he was being pressured a lot to come even earlier. And this is a scene where we're suspecting foul play at the very, very least. Right we've got a missing person. You know, and I but I mean like you also got to figure like why would sick Sheaf of deputy show up if you know often happened? If it was not, why were they showing up? Is it because of the scene wasn't supposed to be cleared again just to go for another and I hate to always be devil's advocate guy, but there's not a WHO. It's a small town. This might be the interesting thing going on. Yeah, but with either the scene of a horrendous crime or it's nothing. But he's also pulling stuff out that wasn't taken out for so obviously they were looking for something. They went into another room, looked in the trash can and pulled out stuff. I'm very interested intentially, especially, but we didn't know at that point what happened to Brian, so we didn't know that there were stab wounds. But a knife in a trash can is, I think, fairly is right, very fishy, very fishy. So I think we got to talk about searching the lake. So why not at least fly the drone? What's holding you back from that? I've never known a law enforcement agency not to want to play with the cool new toy that they were able to get. You know, you know, if we're talking to cost value, there's no cost right right now and again, if your goal was really just to get as much evidence as possible, that you could find probably five people with drones within like a stone's throw of that location, that would be more than happy come out because it's a hobby. People enjoy doing that. The only thing I can think, again for like a kind of devil's at a good explanation, is maybe just the paperwork took too long. But honestly, I don't have a good I do not have a good explain. There is no good explanation. There isn't, and it's sad because I mean, well, first of all, we don't know if Brian was really there, and I we don't know if if that happened that night or if he was somewhere else till things calm down and then placed in there later. Mean there's no way to identify. If you're running over backwards to try to be fair, what was this? No, this is but but there's no good explanation to why they didn't fly the drow. There's none. You can have a good explation for that. Come up with one. I was quoting Paul Hartman, the retired federal investigator on Wk YC. Listen, I don't want to take us too far off track, but I think this is a good maybe check point. Darren, where do you think Brian's body was during this time period? You know, I you know it's be honest with you. I always thought that he was somewhere in the inlets at that this point. Hearing Paul kind of talk about that and we didn't really talk about whether he was in there right off the bat or not. You know, it does make sense to hold back, let things calm down and then release. I think that the people that could have been a part of this we're not expecting in February for to be such a warm February, and that's so I think that they thought they had more time by putting in whenever they did. Guys, we got a whole lot more coming up for you with Victoria macron and her investigator. In the next episode we have an exciting surprise interview somebody else. I don't want to give it all away, but he puts US really close to some important action in this case. You've got a lot more coming up, so just keep following us on itunes and spotify. We're on twitter at chips and visible. If you have any...

...tips, set them to crime stoppers, you local authorities. There is a tenzero dollar reward being offered through crime stoppers. Anyone with information should call to one and six, two, five, two, seven, four sixty three. Also let us know. We've been getting some great new information from our listeners and from the people that were paying attention to time but, like Rick said, never told anyone. Yeah, and everything we get we share with the family and with their investigator. But this is important because the more that we get out there, the more that people here Victoria macron story, the more momentum we're building and it's starting to show. There's some exciting stuff in the works that I can't talk about yet, but just keep it up, keep doing what you're doing. You guys out there are amazing. We love the engagement, we love how smart you are. You could also find us on facebook and we have our own web page, in visible ships podcastcom. We check all of our media, so if you have a tip or an idea, get a hold of us and we'll get back to you. And that just to wrap up that invisible ships podcastcom is a great resource. It's where we're putting all our information. There's a timeline on there and we're going to keep updating that as we get new data. Yep, man, we'll see you next time. See you next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (24)