Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

MUFON UFO SHOW Part 1

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In part one of our interview with MUFON president Thomas Wertman we listen as he tells us all about the various cases the Mutual UFO Network has investigated in the past. Thomas also explains his own journey about how he went from a UFO enthusiast to investigator to president of the MUFON chapter here in Ohio.  

You will be amazed by his stories of UFO encounters and we really appreciated his ability to debunk hoaxes. Thomas is an accomplished podcaster in his own right and you can hear it right away tell once he gets talking. We gave Thomas free reign of the show and it paid off big once he began telling us all about his own personal close encounter. 

It's time for the invisible ship's podcast, where we talk about everything from true crime to the truly weird. Readyfor ships called cost we are back. We are back in the bunker,Danny, we're back in the bunker and we're back to doing some truly weirdtales. Yes, been a while, it has it's been too long,but invisible ships podcast is returning to its roots, where I've always said thatwe cover everything from true crime to the truly weird. So you know,we obviously kicked a Hornet's nest with the Brian mackern case and that was ourtrue crime. CIRCLEVILLE was a little bit more true crime and truly weird.But now, right, and if you've listened to us for a long time, we started out doing the truly weird stuff. We did some of theunderground conspiracy with the Johnny Gosh and we did for various different cryptids. Yes, so it's it's return to form. Its summer time. We're gonna havea little bit of fun and we found a really, really great guy totalk to you. Yeah, but you want to tell them what we're doingthis summer and we got a lot of fun stuff planned right, like what'scoming up at the end of this month. So the end of this month wewere taking an expedition to the Ohio big foot conference in Saltomore. Yeah, Oho, Oh, you can't wait. It's going to be really exciting andit there's gonna be lots of cool speakers there. Cliff and Bubbo fromfinding big foot are speaking. are making an apparent since anyway, it's gonnabe exciting. We're going to do some camping and some research of our own, because not only is that supposedly a big foot spot, it's also aufo sighting. Yes, and it ties into the guests that we have tonight. So my brother was saying, we are doing stuff that we kind ofstarted the podcast for. We wanted to talk about pretty much anything that peaksour curiosity and we have a lot of freedom here. So we contacted thepresident of move on, the Ohio Chapter of move file, chapter of moveon, which is the mutual, you will, phone network. And Yeah, his name is Tom Whortman. He's been investigating strange sights and occurrences foryears and years, and one of the ones that he told us about happenedat salt fork. So that kind of started our camping trip and we realizethat the big foot conference is going to be there and so like we totallyhad to go. But you know what were you saying when we recorded withhim, with Thomas Mortman, and it was like over two hours of,yeah, fascinating stories. Because that and just to tell you kind of thewhole origin of getting Tom Whartonman to get on the phone and do an interviewwith us, which again, we're so grateful for. It was a greatinterview. But it originally started because you had heard about a UFO case inthe Youngstown Ohio area and in Northeast Ohio where we live, and so youreached out to him about that and the conversation just went it was so funand it just went around so many different concept subjects that we just realize wehave to turn this in like at least two episodes. Yeah, we're maybethree, because I think we're going to do the salt fork stories, whichis going to be a sting in alone. Just move on experience, like allhis crazy stories. Is going to be the episode we're going to playfor you tonight. And then we do want to tell you about the trumpwill county ufo because that just fits into our mission here. It's a greatlakes weirdness and happened in Ohio. It's a crazy story, but you knowufos are real. You realize that in two thousand and nineteen the Pentagon confirmedthat your fo's are real. I mean is it's not just a crazy guythat lives in a trailer park talking about this anymore, right. I mean, you're talking to the guy that has ufos a google alert. So Iget but I do know that and I know that in June the government isgoing to have to release a bunch of documents about them, and it's agood way for me to kind of Segue into a point I wanted to make. If you're someone that kind of started listening to us on some of thetrue crime episodes, we love to do that and what we love to dois interview the actual people involved and like that, tried to get into asmuch details as we can. And so...

...with this stuff, like with theUFOS and and that case, when we get into that one, we're talkingabout actual like lab results and like scientists researching the clothing of the people thatsay they saw something. So like there's things to dive into and actually getyour hands on. I love crazy stories, but we like the ones that wecan actually like really, you know, there's something happen. Yeah, wewant something that's standible. So, anyway, here's our interview with TomWhortman, President of the Ohio chapter of move on, podcast or investigator andall around just a great and interesting guy. I'm so happy that you agreed todo this. We also we've both been listening to your podcast, UfoOdyssey, and just kind of going through. You have an impressive backlog of episodes. Well, I've got quite a few there, but I haven't doneit in a few months because I just need to take some time off.I noticed that I was because I've been listening to it and I think,do you say you fotasy or something like that? It's you fotasy, youfotacy. Yeah, the network got me into it was a socialist star trip, was it really? Yeah, and one of the guys reached out tome and said what they do is a raise money for various charities by runningtheir their site. I said I can, I can put some stuff yet andI've got an issue at home where my wife has to mention need totake get away for a little bit. And what do you do it forlike a couple of years straight. And it's not just that one, butin the meantime I've also done on how many other podcast? Well, wejust recently we heard you on one of our friends podcasts and I always sayhis name wrong. I'll say it LL BLANCO HE GOTTE. Try to remember. I have a quick question. You have a background and broadcasting, becauseyou really have a great like radio Voice. You do have a fantastic voice.Absolutely not really. No, I don't, but I've just had Iguess you can see, maybe a gift of bit. Yeah, over allthe years to have the right voice tone. Yeah, you got you a verysoothing voice, you know, especially when the way that you do yourpodcast, it's just you talking to the to the audience out there. Ithink that's kind of a harder way to broadcast. You know, you haveto carry the whole show, but you do it really well and I appreciatehow in depth you go with the stories and just highlight the way that theywere investigated. It's fascinating to listen to and I've really been enjoying going throughthose episodes. I appreciate that because I like to base a lot of stuffon data and research and one of the things that I got frustrate with oneof the groups I was with is they started drifting away from fact and reallyjust saying, Hey, let's put our all our faith in the story.And when you would hear some of the stories, just like you have gotto be kidding me. It's like you actually believe half of what you justsaid. And some of the stuff that they were going into is so ridiculous. It wasn't funny claims about aliens, claims about underground tunnels going clear acrossthe United States. YEA, they didn't do fact checking, very little factchecking. Only couple members would and it got to the point that one nightwas actually co director the group. The other director looked at me and says, you know, why is everybody here and I look at my soul,it's a white a hell am I here? And I said even email that nightsthat I've done nice, stayed with move on, because we like theBaselat of stuff on research and data. And what I did is I tookall the time I was spending with the other group and actually transfer that overdoing research. Now, can you explain to anyone who might not know whatmove on is. Well, move F...

...on is actually one of the biggestorganizations in the world as far as UFO research and investigation. The thing thatmove on does this one an individual has a sight. They always wonder whoto turn to, how to get a research and investigate and so forth.Will move on originally had everything on paper, which is a painment the butt,that you could contact move on. They would get you a paper reportto fill out, you'd write it all out longhand and then what you woulddo is have an investigator follow up with you. And originally, I meanyou had people of all different backgrounds coming and of no training really other justa high interest in the field of UFOLKS. But over the years now they've changedwhere they started creating your own training programs on how to research cases,how to investigate cases. They even created what they call moofine university, whichis an online things, so that when new investigators want to come on board, that's that's go through classes online flop their skills, along with going througha training man and then once somebody goes through the whole training program they haveto actually take an exam, which I did you got to pass the examwith a certain percentage score and then you're allowed to start doing investigations. Andwhat we do in a high is we put somebody along with an experience ininvestigator to mentor them along the way when we bring them in. And lastyear we had two hundred some cases come into a hio alone worldwide. Afterget what the number was, it was like twenty Thirtyzero, something like thatcases coming in the worldwide and the challenge is following up on these cases,doing the research investigations. And what we're doing is we're not out to debunkpeople. Rout to look at their their citing, look the report and I'mvery honest with people saying that, hey, probably about eighty percent of the stuffthat somebody gives to me I can identify. It could be aircraft,it could be satellites, etc. But then you start getting on that tento twenty percent, which gets way more interesting. It's really you know,hey, it wasn't an airplane, you know, it wasn't stars. Thiswitness, let's say, reported missing time. I think, like I talked toyou, think about were well, that was a good story. Youknow, we're actually going to be camping and salt fork at the end ofthis month. That is going to be something that, you know, Iwant to get into tonight, but that's going to be that story will keepus awake and going. Why not get much sleep while we're down there?Oh yeah, I mean it was a great case, and I mean whenyou get clothing back which has some trace evidence on when you get soil samplesback that has some trace evidence, you still reach a pointed. You can'tsay, Hey, I know I'm alien abducted, these people are. Iknow ufo landed, but you just got a mysterious case and you know,hey, we don't have an explanation for it. And I myself I don'tbasically put that case aside and forget about it forever. I just kind oftable it off the side. So, okay, let's looking for correlating informationthat maybe there's other cases that will help us form a better picture of thiswhole subject. We start combining the stuff together. So I look at itfrom very serious point of view. It's what I really appreciate about your organizationand kind of referencing back what you said about the previous organization that you left. If there's a subject matter right now in sort of this field of theunknown that doesn't need any embellishment. It's UFOS, oh, without a doubt, because the other group I was in actually was formed back in thousand ninehundredand fifty two. Was that the Cleveland you followed project? Yes, yeah, and I mean over the years they've gone through transitions. I know somepeople they're still were involved with group or...

...excellent people, but it's just thatthe direction the group is a whole when I couldn't agree with but I meangoing back to the early days of Ufos, I mean you always had people thatdid good work, that good research, but you had the other ones thatwere out, who knows, maybe just to make a buck off ofwhat they were talking about. Yeah, I think it's just human nature tokind of sensation. Wise, you known to Oh, yeah, oh,yeah, and that that's the part that bother me. So I'd rather lookat the real data behind stuff. And that's like like the case that youknow. You're asking about the trumble county case. Yeah, there's been somestuff on TV about it. But the drawback about the TV shows because Ithink ufo hunters to a segment on a matter of fact, a friend ofmine was in the episode Buffo Hunters, and I mean he's saying that BillBurns is actually trying to put words in his mouth that work. Correct yourthis is what really happened, isn't? No, are you sure this iswon't really happen? Well, when you get involved, God shows, sometimesthey try to put things their own way, and I did a show for travelchannel was that waited after after I shot my Seke. But they theyput everything together. They're actually twisting stuff around, which I didn't like.What show was that? You Remember? There's actually one. It was calledUFO witness. Oh, I heard you talk about that on your show.Is that the that's the one where they put the cameras on the backpacks ofthe alien investigators right and there. That was another one that was chasing ufos. That was one that one of the guys I know, his name isJames Fox. He's a produces documentaries out of California. He's a good researcher. He says I'm not a UFO investigator, but he more of a researcher andhe got talked into doing the show and they put infrared cameras on backpacksand I told my senior they basically made your show chasing ufos and model afterchasing big flot yeah, finding big foot, fighting big foot. Yeah, andI said, I said all you needed is Bowbo to start running.Yeah, it's fun, but I think it probably does not give the rightimpression of what a UFO researcher does or how they do their job. No, and even if and move on, I mean we've got about eight hundredinvestigators world like. You're always going to find differing methodology. I think mineis fairly, I mean really good as far as looking at details, lookingat evidences, trying to dig stuff up. And you have some other ones.It's still will go out base stuff off of got feelings, no matterwhat somebody says, you know, or what the policies and guidelines because justgoing to go the wrong way. But it's human nature, you know.So you got a pair them up like a Fox, molder and scully,you know. Yeah, I wish you could, but unfortunate we always can't, because it sometimes people they're kind of spaced out. Then I've done cases. How many in the United States now? Maybe three, four hundred, fourhundred, maybe something like that. And I've done another couple hundred inEngland because they needed some volunteers to help do longdistance research and get investigations,because England one one time on I had like four investigators. So didn't dothat require you to travel internationally? No, I did everything long distance and that'swhere I really home by skills and I was shocking a lot of peoplewhat I could tell them by long distance research, because the one I wasdoing that one our international director of times as. I need somebody to helpout in England because we've only got like...

...four investigators in a bad part isof the for all of them want to be bosses and nobody want to dobe the basically, you know, everybody want to be a chief right,and it's like you can't do that. So I stepped in. It's liketwo hundred cases and a couple of years. Yeah, and there was a lotof work to it. I mean there's a lot of late nights,almost every night. I hit some great cases though, that they would havejust totally gone by the wayside if I didn't look at I mean some excellentcases over there. Are there any of that stick out that you found thatyou that doing that work over there, that you were not able to findan explanation for that still remains unidentified. Yeah, there was one I turnactually turned over to some local investigators that finally stepped up because it involved inabduction case. You told me, I'm a really good story about how youdebunked one with a drone, which I wouldn't mind hearing again, but youdid not mention one about in abduction. Well, this is one where also, I don't I don't talk about it all the time, but I've hadexperience as myself going back in the S, and that was one of my ownearliest experiences and actually very close up experience with the UFO. Wow,and sometimes I think that maybe there's some like verry over effects from all thoseyears, because occasionally do the case, and this is what was really weird, on their recus. I was doing these longdistance cases and occasionally before witnessas a word, I have all these visions popping in my mind and I'mseeing what the witness is going to say before they ever see it. Imean it sounds crazy. I want to sound like I'm the one coming fromleft field now, but I had a witness that turned the case in fromEngland and he said, you know, it happened though, when I wasyounger, when I was like about eight years old, something like that,and he says it kind of involved in the same time. I said really, and he before he says the word, I've got a vision of a cargoing down the road with the old hedgerows on either side, narrow road, and he says, well, what was happening? He says my family, my dad, my mom, my sister and myself. We're driving downthe road going from a rural area heading towards London, and he says we'redriving down this little road. I said we had a lot of the roadsover there have edges and stuff, and he says had has hedges of stuffon either side. We're going down the road. He says our car hadlike a little roof, like a sun roof, and that would open upand he says I'm looking out the roof I see three objects coming from adistance and they come directly over our car and they're following us down the roadand I've got this vision of my mind of these objects in the car.Well, he's going down the road and he says all of a sudden Ilook at my dad he says, with a car, comes over to BurmautBerni the road as far as they can and it dies post to a stopand he goes dad, boom's head goes over sideways. MOM's head goes oversideways and he says my sister, boom, she's out standing up in the seat, basically, and he goes I don't remember anything after that point.He says, finally, you know. He says he didn't know how longit was, but he remembers kind of like Waking Up. He looks upin his dad's head kind of comes back up, MOM's head comes up anddad just reaches up and sticking to he turns the car back on and keepson driving and he says they drive in the London. He says when theyget their dad says they're an hour and a half late and of course theycannot account for the hour to half and right. And he goes I didn'tremember the story at all. He goes...

...my mother told me about it becauseshe was in a nursing home. We were watching UFO show and he goesthey're just channel serving saw UFO show and she goes, remember when we sawyou f all years ago when your kid and he started remembering the incident.He told me forgot about it. When she started saying something, he rememberedall the details and they talked about it and he provide me all the details. But then some really weird stuff started popping up. I mean I feltlike parts of the conversation before he said a word, I was seeing whatwas on his mind. I was seeing what he's wings to say next,and that was kind of really weird. is like a correct connection there?Do you have a an explanation for that now, other than well, somedifferent ones of thought just because of my own experiences. I've listened to yourshow and you talk about something happened to you when you were a child.I think you're in South Carolina. Is that the experience that you're referring to? That was the one? Would you mind telling telling us that? Idon't think my brothers heard it. I haven't. Yeah, well, backin the s there's actually a number of events down in South Carolina. Myfamily moved to South Carolina when I was in the fifth grade and in thefifth grade we look kind of a royal area. Is One of the oldroads out in the country where he had a few houses around you and thenother than that, you know, it was just who knows how many,how much distance from the other houses? Well, me, and this thisis fired what you may have heard on the show to rick. One nightwe used to put telescopes, something new sky watching all the time. There'sa few of us that telescopes with something one of the guys driveways. We'dall come from all over and put them in just do skywatching that night.and One night I didn't show for whatever reason, and one of my buddiesgoes, should been there last night. Man, he says there is aufo to landed over a hill down past your house. I'm like, man, it just BS and me. You know, it is just trying topull the wool over my eyes. You know, give me any stories.Well, it was after that point I started having these feelings at something wascoming towards me. I'm actually coming for me, and it was started tohappening almost a nightly basis. I started having the sweep paralysis that people hearabout, and the impression was, and I always wrote off as kind oflike, okay, just a childhood thing, you know, but something was there. That something was there even in the room. I couldn't see it, but it was there. Did you have a feeling that it was malevolentor, you know, like a bad thing? No, I didn't feelingwas a bad thing, but we just made me nervous all the time andkept happening. At the same time I developed severe ulcers that, I foundout a few years later almost killed me. They got that band. They're bleedingterribly. No matter what treatment they use, they couldn't get him tostop and they were blaming all based on nervous conditions. And you were youwere a young, very young, like young teenager. Oh Yeah, andwe moved from that reached after a couple of years, out to even morerule area where we're surrounded by peach orchards everywhere, each orchards and what theycalled cut Su Vines, which is a real heavy, dense binds on theground. You can't run through this graft. Well, one of my buddies thatI've hooked up with out there, he was two years older than Iwas and we used to joke around and go out as we called a honeytalking to say you ever got hunting now? He's why I got spare gun,why don't you go out with me and eventually got my own rifle.I talked my parents into it. We...

...started going out hunting, but reallyare hunting was shooting a band in the appliances, shooting anything moved. Yeah, that's my kind of hunting. We had twelve gage pumps at that pointand your parents, nobody, I guess in the S or s, worriedabout young kids with total cages. Well in the s last and my parentsnever go about that. They bought me the twenty two after I talk theminto it. I'm pretty sure it's thirteen when I got the twenty two,but they didn't know about the twelve gage. So we're going up. My Buddysays, Hey, let's go out and nice sunny like a Sunday afternoon. Pretty sure, Sonny, at Sunday afternoon we went out hunting. Wewent back through like the peach hordchards. Were going back to the woods.We're going deeper and deeper into the woods and you could go a couple milesout there without really hitting another house. When you start going way back in. We started going deeper into the woods and he starts freaking out. Hegoes, you know, you're anything wrong back here now? He says,well, that's the problem. I don't hear anything. That's were talking about. He's just there's no sound anywhere. And we stopped. I started listening. There was no squirrels, he was right, no birds, know,nothing around that whole area. And he goes, you know, there's aswamp bully back here. I said, swap wiles, what's that? Hestarted describing basically big swoot. I'm like yeah, right, man, you'rejust trying to scare me. To the Campfire Store I get a twelve page. I had a free to the big foot, you know, and rallywas I thrown the damn gun down. It ran out of the woods.That's true. But the ironic part is is insteady going out of the woods, he started going deeper into it and he started getting more scared the wholetime streaking out. He was just getting really nervous and I looked up aswe're walking deeper into the woods, I see ufo hovering directly over the teatree tops. It was kind of like a silver disc. It wasn't reallyit like it's some people pitch your somef with sharp edges that actually had roundededges all around. How big was it? It was about side of a car, if not larger than it was just following us as we go throughthe woods. It wasn't making a sound, no sound whatsoever. And I'm lookingup when he just keep glancing up. As we're going back in deeper inthe woods, I keep seeing this thing. It's like a trailings.Well, he I never tell him about it for some reason. I don'tknow why, but I never said Hey, look up, man. We justkept going deeper and deeper into the woods. He starts picking up speed, even starts getting more scared, and eventually we got to a point thathe's, they say, running through the woods. We eventually hit this carcovered road. was like spray on, targeted put on, because that's howhe rule it was. At the time we hit this road, we knewwhere were at. We said, okay, let's walk the road back, we'renot going the woods. And the minute he hits the road he says, man, you see that big white owl standing in front of us backthere? So what the Hell you talking about? A BIG WHITE OWL?He said, there's a big owl. He's holding his arms out like fourfeet high. It was standing in front of had this hug, these hugeeyes on and I don't remember seeing an owl, but I never told himeither about UFO above the tree tops through that owl thing. That just gaveme goosebumps. I mean maybe that's the way the alien wanted him to perceivehim or the et well, that's the same thing. Last last maybe liketen the fifteen years, stories of come out about the owls being a socialI F U fo events, and our event happened before anything like this evercame out. I mean this is one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight,maybe something like wasn't even my space to talk about. Wasn't the penis andGeland film, as far as they put...

...the right yeah, Oh, yeah, before all that stuff. I mean, is that that UFO connection with bigfoot? Yeah, that's it. So we got we're walking back inthe whole way back he kept talking about this owl, the owl, theowl bell, and I don't remember, but I never told him even afterthat about the ufoed was above us the whole time. Why do you thinkit just a block in your in your mind at the time where it's toofar to remember? Well, that's what I think. Part of it wasis something was trying to you know, either maybe create a image in ourmind that wasn't as fearful looking, you know, scary looking. You createan owl. I mean, how many people are going to be a freeof an owl and not think about facts? For Foot Tall, you know.You know what else, though, not to get too far up time, I've had some parental experience. is nothing, nothing big like this,but I think there's part of your rational brain if you're seeing things that youcan't explain, you can't accept it, just it gives up. It's justdoesn't know where to file it or what to do with it. So youjust kind of you have to move on and it just kind of gets lostin your memory. And it was after that that's when it really started pickingup the sleep paralysis events. After that point we also had a run inwith you know, now people would say it's some men in black. Howdo they come after this? We were we had a car start showing upevery night driving by our houses. We lived across from each other. Hehad this great big old rural farmhouse across the road. They kept coming byabout every night and then they would start pulling and not hiding his drive,but my drive shining lights right in our house and nobody would ever call thepolice on them. What was an old port galaxy, and this was beforeagain, the old the men in black movies ever came out doing that typeof stuff. I mean this was way back before them. The black car, a black out black for galaxy. I'm not getting how to be ableto jouncing. Then one night we recided to walk up to a gas stationup the road and get a soda. It was the only thing we couldreally do back then. So we said, Hey, let's go up there,and was dark, already after dark. So we walk about a half amile down the road to the local gas station. No only thing itwas there got a soda. We're walking back and we're probably about three foursthe way back when we hear a car coming behind us. We turned aroundlook, there's no lights. Well, this was again basically a tar coveredroad. We see the outline of a car in just kind of like theambient lights. So we're like the how off the road, man. Werun off the road, we go up into a some divine each and finallyget back into a peach trees. The car comes down, squirs up theBermuda road up as far as you can to the beach orgic, towards it'sthen goes back on the road and zips off. I mean scared, tryingto kill you. Oh Yeah, well, here's the thing I found out sinceI've talked to you under it. I was trying to track my buddydown for years that I hung out with back then, and I kept gettingdead ends everywhere. Except two weeks ago I found out a few years afterI left, he was run down and killed by a car. You're kiddingnow. He was on a motorcycle on somebody raining down. Did you dothey ever you know, find the person that hit him? Or they're not? I don't know, I haven't got that far yet. I Butt youthey didn't. I bet you was a hit and run. Black Flood Goutswas unsolved, hidden run, but I'm sorry about your friend. Yeah,it just just got me when I came across, I'm like, Holy Shit, and you're pretty out there, you know what I mean. If theywere still looking to silence you, your...

...outspoken about this phenomenon and it almostsounds like you were marked, maybe more by the ufos than the man inblack, because it's following you across houses. Well, and after that point,even when we returned back to Ohio after like one thousand nine hundred andsixty nine, I still had experiences going on, and there's even ones tothis day that that say there's things going on on the paranormal side. Sothey started experiencing paranormal stuff after the uphone counter. Well, there's I've hadI don't know how many cases now, half a dozen cases where I've beenable to visualize everything that's in the witness is mind before they say a word. HMM, and as cases seemed very strong. But what was really weird, as I did a I got called into do a investigation on a reportedright Patterson autopsy witness. Yeah, and Mouf on sent me in directly forthat. They did him tell this before I state director. Didn't call thestate director what I was doing that night. They had no flue what I wasbeing called out to do. I think any Investigasian, yeah, onlytwelling, two people and move on, knew what I was doing. SoI want to interview to witness and it's one of those cases where you,at the end of the day, you've got a good story but no concreteevidence behind stuff. Yes, he could prove he was there, yes,he could take any name, certain things up, but there's still things thatleft it out. But what was really weird about it was I go outand meet the guy and his wife in a restaurant because they want to bein a public place, and he goes, well, introduce myself and his wifelooks at me like I am just like something she can identify and she'sjust looking at me and looking at me and looking at it. Could Ican't put a finger on it. Well, we go ahead and do the interviewfor like a couple hours and once I'm done, she gives me areally weird look again. I said, you know, it's I can't helpit. Say something. I said you give me a very strange look andbefore she says a word, he goes, well, my wife is a psyche. Might anything. Can say they're psyche. You know, there's alot of people out there who claim to me. And she's she looks atme and says you got a very weird or around it, because I've neverseen any horror around your body in my life like this one. And shegoes, I'll just tell you one thing. They're not done with you, andshe goes. What are you? I said, what are you talkingabout? She goes. You know what I mean. They are not donewith you. I said WHO? She goes them and you know who theyare. That terrify you? When you heard that? Well, kind offreaking me out a little bit. I got to behind. But yeah,who freak me out? Who Do you think they are? Do you justdescribe it to like an extra intelligence or something stranger? I think it's anextraterrestrial being of some sort. Now the question next is, are they reallyfrom another world or today, from this world, which I don't know,or another dimension? Yeah, that's what I mean. Another dimension there.Are they from? That? I don't know, but I just know thatthere's some sort of a presence there. I just feel it. I meanI think it's clear. Even the skeptics have to admit that people are seeingthings more and more like we have more and more concrete evidence that people areseeing things that are not easily explainable. I guess we could debate what's behindit. You know, you asked a great question on your show once andI've been thinking about this all week. Yes, if if you learned thatthese crafts in this phenomena was caused by...

...extra trustrial or a foreign power withdance Lee Superior Technology? which would scare you more? And it's something thatI've been thinking about and I don't know for sure which one I'm going tochoose yet, but it's a great question. If you think about it. Mean, who would you be more afraid of? One Hand, I'm thinkingthis extraterrestrial presence may have been around for Millennia for all we know. Butfor a foreign power may actually be much more scary. Somebody like a Chinaor a Russia or somebody, yeah, that Korean, North Korea. Thatwould be very scary because kind of know how they would use it, likeyou said with the et if it's them, and they may have had a technologyfor thousands of years, they haven't really used it against us. Somaybe right. But like us, in the beginning of our talk he wassaying how you get these reports and you can kind of diagnose like eighty ofthem right, eighty percent of them right away. Yeah, and there's thattwenty percent and and that I met. Fifteen to eighteen percent of that is, like you know, the Defense Department has something that even the navy doesn'tknow about yet and that's out there. But then there's that like five percentthat I mean if China, rush or something had this technology is the pasta hundred or however many years that we have of modern sightings, like whyhaven't they done anything with it? That's what hangs me out. I don'tthink it could be, honestly, another nation. I mean make maybe someof the drones sidings, like you know, you were talking on one of yourepisodes about a video that you watched in China. Are they had darnearth swarms of drones? Yeah, could be government technology. Yeah, andI think when you're getting into like the drones and stuff like that, Ithink you know that's that's our technology, like the TIC TAC video, youknow, like the way that's moving. No one knows how to do that. Yeah, we don't understand the physics or how to break the sound barrierwithout causing sonic booms like did nobody, no nation has jumped that far aheadof everybody else without anyone else knowing about under the control that nation right now. Yeah, and one of the things about like the tick tack is reportedalso one underwater. Yes, well, hear that a lot where you've gota crack which can travel through multi media. They can go in air, theair and go through the water and reportedly, I mean there were thingsthat it was going at high speeds underwater. Remember then, you know the navyvideo shows no heat signature, no visible means of propulsion, no,no wings to create lift. So none of that sounds like anything that anynation state has developed or even really that we've know they've experimented with. You'reright. And I was talking to one of my friends who actually we've metthrough a case he turned in. He was from Canada and his back hewas actually in the Defense Department Canada. And sounds kind of like an irony. Is that just be that you call the United States, something happens?Well, he actually turned a report. End The people are blowing away.I called him up and it started researching it and I'm like this guy showingme stuff on photo analysis. At Man, this guy is too damn good inphoto analysis. Now I used to do, I still do, alot of d designing, rendering and so forth, shading lighting. I said, this guy's pointing out deep hills and ninety nine percent of people will nevernotice in a photograph. I said, I know who this guy is,but he's got some knowledge. And after a number conversation she has just suchyou know, is this is what I do for the Canadian Defense Department,sort of analysis of u both. Well, actually, bobby drinks, he wasin the military. So what they do is they sending results of bombstrikes. Need interpret everything, and I...

...looked him up and I did seethat. Yeah, that's what his background was. Well, you also,as a hobby, was into submarines and he was even qualified on submarines.And we got into a conversation. I said, you know what, ifyou had an object, they could break the water ahead of them. Soit really wasn't pushing against the water. Something was breaking the force of thewater before it ever hit it. And I use some terms along of cavitation, stuff like that. And all of a sudden hit on some things.He's like that's possible. If you could break through, you know, thewater to resistance of the water against the object, it could travel faster.And you're seeing some articles now come out on that concept, that that's whatthey think. You know, maybe could be potentially going to happen. Allowedlike sufferings to go faster, you break this water ahead of the ship.Right there's essentially moving through air. Almost, yeah, almost, yeah. Ididn't even understand the account said behind it, but I wanted to seein that. I guess we don't know you. We don't know what wedon't know. So maybe that tick tack U AP really is a lot closerto stuff that humans are doing right now and it's just a really interesting casewith the TIC TAC, I mean David Feber coming forward about it, thepilot, right, and when the other pilots have spoken a little bit,but the whole, the whole story is not coming up because one of them, actually the pilot of the second plane, was female and she's still in themilitary and she was a rookie at the time, from what Faber said. Leave it there for this episode, but don't worry, we have secondpart and probably a third part actually with Tomas Warman, coming up and we'regoing to actually get into the reason that we call them, which was totalk about this amazing incident that happened in one thousand nine hundred and ninety fourover Warren, Ohio and trumble county, one of the best documented ufo sightings. You know, it's definitely worth the listen. This whole conversation is justso fun and interesting. He's just one of those guys that everything he saysis great. Yeah, and you know, like we're so glad that he sharedall his experiences and knowledge and crazy stories with us that we just wantedto let him go. I mean, when the guy like that starts tellingyou stories, you just shut up and listen right, yeah, I thinkyou're really going to enjoy it. So until next week, next time.

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