Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

MUFON UFO SHOW Part 1

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In part one of our interview with MUFON president Thomas Wertman we listen as he tells us all about the various cases the Mutual UFO Network has investigated in the past. Thomas also explains his own journey about how he went from a UFO enthusiast to investigator to president of the MUFON chapter here in Ohio.  

You will be amazed by his stories of UFO encounters and we really appreciated his ability to debunk hoaxes. Thomas is an accomplished podcaster in his own right and you can hear it right away tell once he gets talking. We gave Thomas free reign of the show and it paid off big once he began telling us all about his own personal close encounter. 

It's time for the invisible ship's podcast, where we talk about everything from true crime to the truly weird. Ready for ships called cost we are back. We are back in the bunker, Danny, we're back in the bunker and we're back to doing some truly weird tales. Yes, been a while, it has it's been too long, but invisible ships podcast is returning to its roots, where I've always said that we cover everything from true crime to the truly weird. So you know, we obviously kicked a Hornet's nest with the Brian mackern case and that was our true crime. CIRCLEVILLE was a little bit more true crime and truly weird. But now, right, and if you've listened to us for a long time, we started out doing the truly weird stuff. We did some of the underground conspiracy with the Johnny Gosh and we did for various different cryptids. Yes, so it's it's return to form. Its summer time. We're gonna have a little bit of fun and we found a really, really great guy to talk to you. Yeah, but you want to tell them what we're doing this summer and we got a lot of fun stuff planned right, like what's coming up at the end of this month. So the end of this month we were taking an expedition to the Ohio big foot conference in Saltomore. Yeah, Oho, Oh, you can't wait. It's going to be really exciting and it there's gonna be lots of cool speakers there. Cliff and Bubbo from finding big foot are speaking. are making an apparent since anyway, it's gonna be exciting. We're going to do some camping and some research of our own, because not only is that supposedly a big foot spot, it's also a ufo sighting. Yes, and it ties into the guests that we have tonight. So my brother was saying, we are doing stuff that we kind of started the podcast for. We wanted to talk about pretty much anything that peaks our curiosity and we have a lot of freedom here. So we contacted the president of move on, the Ohio Chapter of move file, chapter of move on, which is the mutual, you will, phone network. And Yeah, his name is Tom Whortman. He's been investigating strange sights and occurrences for years and years, and one of the ones that he told us about happened at salt fork. So that kind of started our camping trip and we realize that the big foot conference is going to be there and so like we totally had to go. But you know what were you saying when we recorded with him, with Thomas Mortman, and it was like over two hours of, yeah, fascinating stories. Because that and just to tell you kind of the whole origin of getting Tom Whartonman to get on the phone and do an interview with us, which again, we're so grateful for. It was a great interview. But it originally started because you had heard about a UFO case in the Youngstown Ohio area and in Northeast Ohio where we live, and so you reached out to him about that and the conversation just went it was so fun and it just went around so many different concept subjects that we just realize we have to turn this in like at least two episodes. Yeah, we're maybe three, because I think we're going to do the salt fork stories, which is going to be a sting in alone. Just move on experience, like all his crazy stories. Is going to be the episode we're going to play for you tonight. And then we do want to tell you about the trump will county ufo because that just fits into our mission here. It's a great lakes weirdness and happened in Ohio. It's a crazy story, but you know ufos are real. You realize that in two thousand and nineteen the Pentagon confirmed that your fo's are real. I mean is it's not just a crazy guy that lives in a trailer park talking about this anymore, right. I mean, you're talking to the guy that has ufos a google alert. So I get but I do know that and I know that in June the government is going to have to release a bunch of documents about them, and it's a good way for me to kind of Segue into a point I wanted to make. If you're someone that kind of started listening to us on some of the true crime episodes, we love to do that and what we love to do is interview the actual people involved and like that, tried to get into as much details as we can. And so...

...with this stuff, like with the UFOS and and that case, when we get into that one, we're talking about actual like lab results and like scientists researching the clothing of the people that say they saw something. So like there's things to dive into and actually get your hands on. I love crazy stories, but we like the ones that we can actually like really, you know, there's something happen. Yeah, we want something that's standible. So, anyway, here's our interview with Tom Whortman, President of the Ohio chapter of move on, podcast or investigator and all around just a great and interesting guy. I'm so happy that you agreed to do this. We also we've both been listening to your podcast, Ufo Odyssey, and just kind of going through. You have an impressive backlog of episodes. Well, I've got quite a few there, but I haven't done it in a few months because I just need to take some time off. I noticed that I was because I've been listening to it and I think, do you say you fotasy or something like that? It's you fotasy, you fotacy. Yeah, the network got me into it was a socialist star trip, was it really? Yeah, and one of the guys reached out to me and said what they do is a raise money for various charities by running their their site. I said I can, I can put some stuff yet and I've got an issue at home where my wife has to mention need to take get away for a little bit. And what do you do it for like a couple of years straight. And it's not just that one, but in the meantime I've also done on how many other podcast? Well, we just recently we heard you on one of our friends podcasts and I always say his name wrong. I'll say it LL BLANCO HE GOTTE. Try to remember. I have a quick question. You have a background and broadcasting, because you really have a great like radio Voice. You do have a fantastic voice. Absolutely not really. No, I don't, but I've just had I guess you can see, maybe a gift of bit. Yeah, over all the years to have the right voice tone. Yeah, you got you a very soothing voice, you know, especially when the way that you do your podcast, it's just you talking to the to the audience out there. I think that's kind of a harder way to broadcast. You know, you have to carry the whole show, but you do it really well and I appreciate how in depth you go with the stories and just highlight the way that they were investigated. It's fascinating to listen to and I've really been enjoying going through those episodes. I appreciate that because I like to base a lot of stuff on data and research and one of the things that I got frustrate with one of the groups I was with is they started drifting away from fact and really just saying, Hey, let's put our all our faith in the story. And when you would hear some of the stories, just like you have got to be kidding me. It's like you actually believe half of what you just said. And some of the stuff that they were going into is so ridiculous. It wasn't funny claims about aliens, claims about underground tunnels going clear across the United States. YEA, they didn't do fact checking, very little fact checking. Only couple members would and it got to the point that one night was actually co director the group. The other director looked at me and says, you know, why is everybody here and I look at my soul, it's a white a hell am I here? And I said even email that nights that I've done nice, stayed with move on, because we like the Baselat of stuff on research and data. And what I did is I took all the time I was spending with the other group and actually transfer that over doing research. Now, can you explain to anyone who might not know what move on is. Well, move F...

...on is actually one of the biggest organizations in the world as far as UFO research and investigation. The thing that move on does this one an individual has a sight. They always wonder who to turn to, how to get a research and investigate and so forth. Will move on originally had everything on paper, which is a painment the butt, that you could contact move on. They would get you a paper report to fill out, you'd write it all out longhand and then what you would do is have an investigator follow up with you. And originally, I mean you had people of all different backgrounds coming and of no training really other just a high interest in the field of UFOLKS. But over the years now they've changed where they started creating your own training programs on how to research cases, how to investigate cases. They even created what they call moofine university, which is an online things, so that when new investigators want to come on board, that's that's go through classes online flop their skills, along with going through a training man and then once somebody goes through the whole training program they have to actually take an exam, which I did you got to pass the exam with a certain percentage score and then you're allowed to start doing investigations. And what we do in a high is we put somebody along with an experience in investigator to mentor them along the way when we bring them in. And last year we had two hundred some cases come into a hio alone worldwide. After get what the number was, it was like twenty Thirtyzero, something like that cases coming in the worldwide and the challenge is following up on these cases, doing the research investigations. And what we're doing is we're not out to debunk people. Rout to look at their their citing, look the report and I'm very honest with people saying that, hey, probably about eighty percent of the stuff that somebody gives to me I can identify. It could be aircraft, it could be satellites, etc. But then you start getting on that ten to twenty percent, which gets way more interesting. It's really you know, hey, it wasn't an airplane, you know, it wasn't stars. This witness, let's say, reported missing time. I think, like I talked to you, think about were well, that was a good story. You know, we're actually going to be camping and salt fork at the end of this month. That is going to be something that, you know, I want to get into tonight, but that's going to be that story will keep us awake and going. Why not get much sleep while we're down there? Oh yeah, I mean it was a great case, and I mean when you get clothing back which has some trace evidence on when you get soil samples back that has some trace evidence, you still reach a pointed. You can't say, Hey, I know I'm alien abducted, these people are. I know ufo landed, but you just got a mysterious case and you know, hey, we don't have an explanation for it. And I myself I don't basically put that case aside and forget about it forever. I just kind of table it off the side. So, okay, let's looking for correlating information that maybe there's other cases that will help us form a better picture of this whole subject. We start combining the stuff together. So I look at it from very serious point of view. It's what I really appreciate about your organization and kind of referencing back what you said about the previous organization that you left. If there's a subject matter right now in sort of this field of the unknown that doesn't need any embellishment. It's UFOS, oh, without a doubt, because the other group I was in actually was formed back in thousand ninehundred and fifty two. Was that the Cleveland you followed project? Yes, yeah, and I mean over the years they've gone through transitions. I know some people they're still were involved with group or...

...excellent people, but it's just that the direction the group is a whole when I couldn't agree with but I mean going back to the early days of Ufos, I mean you always had people that did good work, that good research, but you had the other ones that were out, who knows, maybe just to make a buck off of what they were talking about. Yeah, I think it's just human nature to kind of sensation. Wise, you known to Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, and that that's the part that bother me. So I'd rather look at the real data behind stuff. And that's like like the case that you know. You're asking about the trumble county case. Yeah, there's been some stuff on TV about it. But the drawback about the TV shows because I think ufo hunters to a segment on a matter of fact, a friend of mine was in the episode Buffo Hunters, and I mean he's saying that Bill Burns is actually trying to put words in his mouth that work. Correct your this is what really happened, isn't? No, are you sure this is won't really happen? Well, when you get involved, God shows, sometimes they try to put things their own way, and I did a show for travel channel was that waited after after I shot my Seke. But they they put everything together. They're actually twisting stuff around, which I didn't like. What show was that? You Remember? There's actually one. It was called UFO witness. Oh, I heard you talk about that on your show. Is that the that's the one where they put the cameras on the backpacks of the alien investigators right and there. That was another one that was chasing ufos. That was one that one of the guys I know, his name is James Fox. He's a produces documentaries out of California. He's a good researcher. He says I'm not a UFO investigator, but he more of a researcher and he got talked into doing the show and they put infrared cameras on backpacks and I told my senior they basically made your show chasing ufos and model after chasing big flot yeah, finding big foot, fighting big foot. Yeah, and I said, I said all you needed is Bowbo to start running. Yeah, it's fun, but I think it probably does not give the right impression of what a UFO researcher does or how they do their job. No, and even if and move on, I mean we've got about eight hundred investigators world like. You're always going to find differing methodology. I think mine is fairly, I mean really good as far as looking at details, looking at evidences, trying to dig stuff up. And you have some other ones. It's still will go out base stuff off of got feelings, no matter what somebody says, you know, or what the policies and guidelines because just going to go the wrong way. But it's human nature, you know. So you got a pair them up like a Fox, molder and scully, you know. Yeah, I wish you could, but unfortunate we always can't, because it sometimes people they're kind of spaced out. Then I've done cases. How many in the United States now? Maybe three, four hundred, four hundred, maybe something like that. And I've done another couple hundred in England because they needed some volunteers to help do longdistance research and get investigations, because England one one time on I had like four investigators. So didn't do that require you to travel internationally? No, I did everything long distance and that's where I really home by skills and I was shocking a lot of people what I could tell them by long distance research, because the one I was doing that one our international director of times as. I need somebody to help out in England because we've only got like...

...four investigators in a bad part is of the for all of them want to be bosses and nobody want to do be the basically, you know, everybody want to be a chief right, and it's like you can't do that. So I stepped in. It's like two hundred cases and a couple of years. Yeah, and there was a lot of work to it. I mean there's a lot of late nights, almost every night. I hit some great cases though, that they would have just totally gone by the wayside if I didn't look at I mean some excellent cases over there. Are there any of that stick out that you found that you that doing that work over there, that you were not able to find an explanation for that still remains unidentified. Yeah, there was one I turn actually turned over to some local investigators that finally stepped up because it involved in abduction case. You told me, I'm a really good story about how you debunked one with a drone, which I wouldn't mind hearing again, but you did not mention one about in abduction. Well, this is one where also, I don't I don't talk about it all the time, but I've had experience as myself going back in the S, and that was one of my own earliest experiences and actually very close up experience with the UFO. Wow, and sometimes I think that maybe there's some like verry over effects from all those years, because occasionally do the case, and this is what was really weird, on their recus. I was doing these longdistance cases and occasionally before witness as a word, I have all these visions popping in my mind and I'm seeing what the witness is going to say before they ever see it. I mean it sounds crazy. I want to sound like I'm the one coming from left field now, but I had a witness that turned the case in from England and he said, you know, it happened though, when I was younger, when I was like about eight years old, something like that, and he says it kind of involved in the same time. I said really, and he before he says the word, I've got a vision of a car going down the road with the old hedgerows on either side, narrow road, and he says, well, what was happening? He says my family, my dad, my mom, my sister and myself. We're driving down the road going from a rural area heading towards London, and he says we're driving down this little road. I said we had a lot of the roads over there have edges and stuff, and he says had has hedges of stuff on either side. We're going down the road. He says our car had like a little roof, like a sun roof, and that would open up and he says I'm looking out the roof I see three objects coming from a distance and they come directly over our car and they're following us down the road and I've got this vision of my mind of these objects in the car. Well, he's going down the road and he says all of a sudden I look at my dad he says, with a car, comes over to Burmaut Berni the road as far as they can and it dies post to a stop and he goes dad, boom's head goes over sideways. MOM's head goes over sideways and he says my sister, boom, she's out standing up in the seat, basically, and he goes I don't remember anything after that point. He says, finally, you know. He says he didn't know how long it was, but he remembers kind of like Waking Up. He looks up in his dad's head kind of comes back up, MOM's head comes up and dad just reaches up and sticking to he turns the car back on and keeps on driving and he says they drive in the London. He says when they get their dad says they're an hour and a half late and of course they cannot account for the hour to half and right. And he goes I didn't remember the story at all. He goes...

...my mother told me about it because she was in a nursing home. We were watching UFO show and he goes they're just channel serving saw UFO show and she goes, remember when we saw you f all years ago when your kid and he started remembering the incident. He told me forgot about it. When she started saying something, he remembered all the details and they talked about it and he provide me all the details. But then some really weird stuff started popping up. I mean I felt like parts of the conversation before he said a word, I was seeing what was on his mind. I was seeing what he's wings to say next, and that was kind of really weird. is like a correct connection there? Do you have a an explanation for that now, other than well, some different ones of thought just because of my own experiences. I've listened to your show and you talk about something happened to you when you were a child. I think you're in South Carolina. Is that the experience that you're referring to? That was the one? Would you mind telling telling us that? I don't think my brothers heard it. I haven't. Yeah, well, back in the s there's actually a number of events down in South Carolina. My family moved to South Carolina when I was in the fifth grade and in the fifth grade we look kind of a royal area. Is One of the old roads out in the country where he had a few houses around you and then other than that, you know, it was just who knows how many, how much distance from the other houses? Well, me, and this this is fired what you may have heard on the show to rick. One night we used to put telescopes, something new sky watching all the time. There's a few of us that telescopes with something one of the guys driveways. We'd all come from all over and put them in just do skywatching that night. and One night I didn't show for whatever reason, and one of my buddies goes, should been there last night. Man, he says there is a ufo to landed over a hill down past your house. I'm like, man, it just BS and me. You know, it is just trying to pull the wool over my eyes. You know, give me any stories. Well, it was after that point I started having these feelings at something was coming towards me. I'm actually coming for me, and it was started to happening almost a nightly basis. I started having the sweep paralysis that people hear about, and the impression was, and I always wrote off as kind of like, okay, just a childhood thing, you know, but something was there. That something was there even in the room. I couldn't see it, but it was there. Did you have a feeling that it was malevolent or, you know, like a bad thing? No, I didn't feeling was a bad thing, but we just made me nervous all the time and kept happening. At the same time I developed severe ulcers that, I found out a few years later almost killed me. They got that band. They're bleeding terribly. No matter what treatment they use, they couldn't get him to stop and they were blaming all based on nervous conditions. And you were you were a young, very young, like young teenager. Oh Yeah, and we moved from that reached after a couple of years, out to even more rule area where we're surrounded by peach orchards everywhere, each orchards and what they called cut Su Vines, which is a real heavy, dense binds on the ground. You can't run through this graft. Well, one of my buddies that I've hooked up with out there, he was two years older than I was and we used to joke around and go out as we called a honey talking to say you ever got hunting now? He's why I got spare gun, why don't you go out with me and eventually got my own rifle. I talked my parents into it. We...

...started going out hunting, but really are hunting was shooting a band in the appliances, shooting anything moved. Yeah, that's my kind of hunting. We had twelve gage pumps at that point and your parents, nobody, I guess in the S or s, worried about young kids with total cages. Well in the s last and my parents never go about that. They bought me the twenty two after I talk them into it. I'm pretty sure it's thirteen when I got the twenty two, but they didn't know about the twelve gage. So we're going up. My Buddy says, Hey, let's go out and nice sunny like a Sunday afternoon. Pretty sure, Sonny, at Sunday afternoon we went out hunting. We went back through like the peach hordchards. Were going back to the woods. We're going deeper and deeper into the woods and you could go a couple miles out there without really hitting another house. When you start going way back in. We started going deeper into the woods and he starts freaking out. He goes, you know, you're anything wrong back here now? He says, well, that's the problem. I don't hear anything. That's were talking about. He's just there's no sound anywhere. And we stopped. I started listening. There was no squirrels, he was right, no birds, know, nothing around that whole area. And he goes, you know, there's a swamp bully back here. I said, swap wiles, what's that? He started describing basically big swoot. I'm like yeah, right, man, you're just trying to scare me. To the Campfire Store I get a twelve page. I had a free to the big foot, you know, and rally was I thrown the damn gun down. It ran out of the woods. That's true. But the ironic part is is insteady going out of the woods, he started going deeper into it and he started getting more scared the whole time streaking out. He was just getting really nervous and I looked up as we're walking deeper into the woods, I see ufo hovering directly over the tea tree tops. It was kind of like a silver disc. It wasn't really it like it's some people pitch your somef with sharp edges that actually had rounded edges all around. How big was it? It was about side of a car, if not larger than it was just following us as we go through the woods. It wasn't making a sound, no sound whatsoever. And I'm looking up when he just keep glancing up. As we're going back in deeper in the woods, I keep seeing this thing. It's like a trailings. Well, he I never tell him about it for some reason. I don't know why, but I never said Hey, look up, man. We just kept going deeper and deeper into the woods. He starts picking up speed, even starts getting more scared, and eventually we got to a point that he's, they say, running through the woods. We eventually hit this car covered road. was like spray on, targeted put on, because that's how he rule it was. At the time we hit this road, we knew where were at. We said, okay, let's walk the road back, we're not going the woods. And the minute he hits the road he says, man, you see that big white owl standing in front of us back there? So what the Hell you talking about? A BIG WHITE OWL? He said, there's a big owl. He's holding his arms out like four feet high. It was standing in front of had this hug, these huge eyes on and I don't remember seeing an owl, but I never told him either about UFO above the tree tops through that owl thing. That just gave me goosebumps. I mean maybe that's the way the alien wanted him to perceive him or the et well, that's the same thing. Last last maybe like ten the fifteen years, stories of come out about the owls being a social I F U fo events, and our event happened before anything like this ever came out. I mean this is one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, maybe something like wasn't even my space to talk about. Wasn't the penis and Geland film, as far as they put...

...the right yeah, Oh, yeah, before all that stuff. I mean, is that that UFO connection with big foot? Yeah, that's it. So we got we're walking back in the whole way back he kept talking about this owl, the owl, the owl bell, and I don't remember, but I never told him even after that about the ufoed was above us the whole time. Why do you think it just a block in your in your mind at the time where it's too far to remember? Well, that's what I think. Part of it was is something was trying to you know, either maybe create a image in our mind that wasn't as fearful looking, you know, scary looking. You create an owl. I mean, how many people are going to be a free of an owl and not think about facts? For Foot Tall, you know. You know what else, though, not to get too far up time, I've had some parental experience. is nothing, nothing big like this, but I think there's part of your rational brain if you're seeing things that you can't explain, you can't accept it, just it gives up. It's just doesn't know where to file it or what to do with it. So you just kind of you have to move on and it just kind of gets lost in your memory. And it was after that that's when it really started picking up the sleep paralysis events. After that point we also had a run in with you know, now people would say it's some men in black. How do they come after this? We were we had a car start showing up every night driving by our houses. We lived across from each other. He had this great big old rural farmhouse across the road. They kept coming by about every night and then they would start pulling and not hiding his drive, but my drive shining lights right in our house and nobody would ever call the police on them. What was an old port galaxy, and this was before again, the old the men in black movies ever came out doing that type of stuff. I mean this was way back before them. The black car, a black out black for galaxy. I'm not getting how to be able to jouncing. Then one night we recided to walk up to a gas station up the road and get a soda. It was the only thing we could really do back then. So we said, Hey, let's go up there, and was dark, already after dark. So we walk about a half a mile down the road to the local gas station. No only thing it was there got a soda. We're walking back and we're probably about three fours the way back when we hear a car coming behind us. We turned around look, there's no lights. Well, this was again basically a tar covered road. We see the outline of a car in just kind of like the ambient lights. So we're like the how off the road, man. We run off the road, we go up into a some divine each and finally get back into a peach trees. The car comes down, squirs up the Bermuda road up as far as you can to the beach orgic, towards it's then goes back on the road and zips off. I mean scared, trying to kill you. Oh Yeah, well, here's the thing I found out since I've talked to you under it. I was trying to track my buddy down for years that I hung out with back then, and I kept getting dead ends everywhere. Except two weeks ago I found out a few years after I left, he was run down and killed by a car. You're kidding now. He was on a motorcycle on somebody raining down. Did you do they ever you know, find the person that hit him? Or they're not? I don't know, I haven't got that far yet. I Butt you they didn't. I bet you was a hit and run. Black Flood Gouts was unsolved, hidden run, but I'm sorry about your friend. Yeah, it just just got me when I came across, I'm like, Holy Shit, and you're pretty out there, you know what I mean. If they were still looking to silence you, your...

...outspoken about this phenomenon and it almost sounds like you were marked, maybe more by the ufos than the man in black, because it's following you across houses. Well, and after that point, even when we returned back to Ohio after like one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine, I still had experiences going on, and there's even ones to this day that that say there's things going on on the paranormal side. So they started experiencing paranormal stuff after the uphone counter. Well, there's I've had I don't know how many cases now, half a dozen cases where I've been able to visualize everything that's in the witness is mind before they say a word. HMM, and as cases seemed very strong. But what was really weird, as I did a I got called into do a investigation on a reported right Patterson autopsy witness. Yeah, and Mouf on sent me in directly for that. They did him tell this before I state director. Didn't call the state director what I was doing that night. They had no flue what I was being called out to do. I think any Investigasian, yeah, only twelling, two people and move on, knew what I was doing. So I want to interview to witness and it's one of those cases where you, at the end of the day, you've got a good story but no concrete evidence behind stuff. Yes, he could prove he was there, yes, he could take any name, certain things up, but there's still things that left it out. But what was really weird about it was I go out and meet the guy and his wife in a restaurant because they want to be in a public place, and he goes, well, introduce myself and his wife looks at me like I am just like something she can identify and she's just looking at me and looking at me and looking at it. Could I can't put a finger on it. Well, we go ahead and do the interview for like a couple hours and once I'm done, she gives me a really weird look again. I said, you know, it's I can't help it. Say something. I said you give me a very strange look and before she says a word, he goes, well, my wife is a psyche. Might anything. Can say they're psyche. You know, there's a lot of people out there who claim to me. And she's she looks at me and says you got a very weird or around it, because I've never seen any horror around your body in my life like this one. And she goes, I'll just tell you one thing. They're not done with you, and she goes. What are you? I said, what are you talking about? She goes. You know what I mean. They are not done with you. I said WHO? She goes them and you know who they are. That terrify you? When you heard that? Well, kind of freaking me out a little bit. I got to behind. But yeah, who freak me out? Who Do you think they are? Do you just describe it to like an extra intelligence or something stranger? I think it's an extraterrestrial being of some sort. Now the question next is, are they really from another world or today, from this world, which I don't know, or another dimension? Yeah, that's what I mean. Another dimension there. Are they from? That? I don't know, but I just know that there's some sort of a presence there. I just feel it. I mean I think it's clear. Even the skeptics have to admit that people are seeing things more and more like we have more and more concrete evidence that people are seeing things that are not easily explainable. I guess we could debate what's behind it. You know, you asked a great question on your show once and I've been thinking about this all week. Yes, if if you learned that these crafts in this phenomena was caused by...

...extra trustrial or a foreign power with dance Lee Superior Technology? which would scare you more? And it's something that I've been thinking about and I don't know for sure which one I'm going to choose yet, but it's a great question. If you think about it. Mean, who would you be more afraid of? One Hand, I'm thinking this extraterrestrial presence may have been around for Millennia for all we know. But for a foreign power may actually be much more scary. Somebody like a China or a Russia or somebody, yeah, that Korean, North Korea. That would be very scary because kind of know how they would use it, like you said with the et if it's them, and they may have had a technology for thousands of years, they haven't really used it against us. So maybe right. But like us, in the beginning of our talk he was saying how you get these reports and you can kind of diagnose like eighty of them right, eighty percent of them right away. Yeah, and there's that twenty percent and and that I met. Fifteen to eighteen percent of that is, like you know, the Defense Department has something that even the navy doesn't know about yet and that's out there. But then there's that like five percent that I mean if China, rush or something had this technology is the past a hundred or however many years that we have of modern sightings, like why haven't they done anything with it? That's what hangs me out. I don't think it could be, honestly, another nation. I mean make maybe some of the drones sidings, like you know, you were talking on one of your episodes about a video that you watched in China. Are they had darn earth swarms of drones? Yeah, could be government technology. Yeah, and I think when you're getting into like the drones and stuff like that, I think you know that's that's our technology, like the TIC TAC video, you know, like the way that's moving. No one knows how to do that. Yeah, we don't understand the physics or how to break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms like did nobody, no nation has jumped that far ahead of everybody else without anyone else knowing about under the control that nation right now. Yeah, and one of the things about like the tick tack is reported also one underwater. Yes, well, hear that a lot where you've got a crack which can travel through multi media. They can go in air, the air and go through the water and reportedly, I mean there were things that it was going at high speeds underwater. Remember then, you know the navy video shows no heat signature, no visible means of propulsion, no, no wings to create lift. So none of that sounds like anything that any nation state has developed or even really that we've know they've experimented with. You're right. And I was talking to one of my friends who actually we've met through a case he turned in. He was from Canada and his back he was actually in the Defense Department Canada. And sounds kind of like an irony. Is that just be that you call the United States, something happens? Well, he actually turned a report. End The people are blowing away. I called him up and it started researching it and I'm like this guy showing me stuff on photo analysis. At Man, this guy is too damn good in photo analysis. Now I used to do, I still do, a lot of d designing, rendering and so forth, shading lighting. I said, this guy's pointing out deep hills and ninety nine percent of people will never notice in a photograph. I said, I know who this guy is, but he's got some knowledge. And after a number conversation she has just such you know, is this is what I do for the Canadian Defense Department, sort of analysis of u both. Well, actually, bobby drinks, he was in the military. So what they do is they sending results of bomb strikes. Need interpret everything, and I...

...looked him up and I did see that. Yeah, that's what his background was. Well, you also, as a hobby, was into submarines and he was even qualified on submarines. And we got into a conversation. I said, you know what, if you had an object, they could break the water ahead of them. So it really wasn't pushing against the water. Something was breaking the force of the water before it ever hit it. And I use some terms along of cavitation, stuff like that. And all of a sudden hit on some things. He's like that's possible. If you could break through, you know, the water to resistance of the water against the object, it could travel faster. And you're seeing some articles now come out on that concept, that that's what they think. You know, maybe could be potentially going to happen. Allowed like sufferings to go faster, you break this water ahead of the ship. Right there's essentially moving through air. Almost, yeah, almost, yeah. I didn't even understand the account said behind it, but I wanted to see in that. I guess we don't know you. We don't know what we don't know. So maybe that tick tack U AP really is a lot closer to stuff that humans are doing right now and it's just a really interesting case with the TIC TAC, I mean David Feber coming forward about it, the pilot, right, and when the other pilots have spoken a little bit, but the whole, the whole story is not coming up because one of them, actually the pilot of the second plane, was female and she's still in the military and she was a rookie at the time, from what Faber said. Leave it there for this episode, but don't worry, we have second part and probably a third part actually with Tomas Warman, coming up and we're going to actually get into the reason that we call them, which was to talk about this amazing incident that happened in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four over Warren, Ohio and trumble county, one of the best documented ufo sightings. You know, it's definitely worth the listen. This whole conversation is just so fun and interesting. He's just one of those guys that everything he says is great. Yeah, and you know, like we're so glad that he shared all his experiences and knowledge and crazy stories with us that we just wanted to let him go. I mean, when the guy like that starts telling you stories, you just shut up and listen right, yeah, I think you're really going to enjoy it. So until next week, next time.

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