Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

MUFON UFO SHOW Part 1

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In part one of our interview with MUFON president Thomas Wertman we listen as he tells us all about the various cases the Mutual UFO Network has investigated in the past. Thomas also explains his own journey about how he went from a UFO enthusiast to investigator to president of the MUFON chapter here in Ohio.  

You will be amazed by his stories of UFO encounters and we really appreciated his ability to debunk hoaxes. Thomas is an accomplished podcaster in his own right and you can hear it right away tell once he gets talking. We gave Thomas free reign of the show and it paid off big once he began telling us all about his own personal close encounter. 

Time for the invisible ships podcast,where we talk about everything from true crime, did it truly weird ready, fornecin, visible, shits odcost?We are back. We are back in the bunker, Danny we're back in the bunker andwe're back doing some truly weird tales. Ye's been a while it has it's been toolong, but invisible ships podcast is returning to its roots, where we'vealways said that we cover everything from tru crime to the truly weird. Soyou know we obviously kickd the Hornets Ness with the Brian Mackron case, andthat was our true prime circlevill was a little bit more true crime and trulyweird, but now right and if you've listened to us for a long time, westarted out doing the truly weird stuff. We didsome the underground conspiracy with the Johnny Gosh and we did the variousdifferent cryptids. Yes, so is returned to form at summertime.We're just goin t have a little bit of fun and we found a really really greatguy to talk to him yeah. But you want to tell them what we're doing this summer. We got alot of fun stuff playing right like what's coming up at the end of thismonth. So the end of this month we were taking an expedition to the Ohio bigfoot conference in Sol for Yaio cant. We it's Goingnto, be really excitingand there's gonna be lots of cool speakers there, cliffind Bubo from finding big foot orspeaking or making an appearance. Anyway, it's GON TA, exciting we're ontdo some campin and some research of our own, because not only is hat supposedlya big foot spot, it's also ufo sighting, yes, and it ties into theguest that we have tonight. So I my brother was saying we are doing stuff that we kind of started thepodcast for it. We wanted to talk about pretty much anything that piaks ourcuriosity in. We have a lot of freedom here, so we contacted the president ofMufon, the Ohio Chapter of Moil, Chapter RMOVE on which is the mutualYuilpho network and yeah. His name is Tom. Worman he's been investigating strange,sitesing, an occurrences for years and years and one of the ones that he toldus about happened at salt fork, so that kind of started our camping drip in,and we realize that the big fook conference is going to be there and solike. We totally had to go. But you know what were you saying we recordedwith him with Thomas Morman, and it was like over two hours of yeah fascinatingstories. Is that and just to tell you kind of the whole origin of getting TomWorkman to get on the phone and do an interview with us which again we're sograteful, for it was a great interview, but it originally started because youhad heard about a Ufo case in the Youngstown Ohio area in North East Ohiowhere we live, and so you reached out to him about that and the conversationjust went, it was so fun and it just went around so many different concept,subjects that we just realize. We have to turn this into like at least twoepisodes yeah we're, maybe three, because I think we're going to do theselfwork stories, which is going to be a standalone just move on experience like all his crazystories is going to be the episode we're going to play for you tonight,and then we do want to tell you about the trumpll counter Uflt, because thatjust fits into our mission. Here, it's a great lake's weirdness. It happenedin Ohio. It is a crazy story, but you know uffos are real. You realize that in twothousand and nineteen the Pentagon confirmed that UFOS are real. I mean,is it's not just a crazy guy that lives in a trailer park? Talking about thisanymore right, I mean you're talking to the guy that has ufoas a google alert.So I get, but I do know that- and I know that inJune the government is going to have to release a bunch of documents about themand it's a good way for me to kind of Seguain. To a point I wanted to make ifyou're someone that kind of startd listening to us on some of the truecrime episodes we love to do that and what we have to do is interview theactual people involved and like that tried to get into as much details as wecan, and so with this stuff, like with...

...the UFOS, and in that case, when we getinto that one we're talking about actual, like lab results and likescientists researching the clothing of the people. That say they saw somethingso like there's things to dive into N, actually get your hands on. I lovecrazy stories, but we like the ones that we can actually like. Really, youknow e there's something happen yeah. We want something that Stan so anyway. Here's our interview withTom Wortman, President of the Ohio chapter, Muvfon, podcast orinvestigator, and all round just a great and interesting guy. I'm so happythat you agreed to do this. We also we've both been listening toyour podcast, Ufo odyssy and just kind of going through Youhave, an impressivebacklog of episodes. Well, I've got quite a few there, but I haven't doneit in a few months because I just need to take some time off. I noticed that Iwas because I've been listening to it and I think d you say youphotosy orsomething like that at you sotes you fonay Yeah Actaly. The network got me into. It was a sociativestar trip. Was it really yeah and one of the guysreached out to me and said? What do you do? Is a raise money for variouscharities by running theire, their sight. They said Yeah I can. I can put somestuff in and but I've got an issue at home, where my wife has to mention soyo just need to take an get away for a little bit and whene you doitg for late a couple yearsstraight and it's not not just that one but in the meantime I've also done. Idon't know how many other podcast. Well, we just recently. We heard you onone of our friends podcast and, I always say his name wrong I'll, say ite Blanco, Higante r, to be honest with you ihave a quick question: Do you havea background in broadcasting because you really have a great like radiovoice? You have a fantastic voice, absolutely not really! No! I don't Buti've just had. I guess, Youcan See, maybe a gift, alittle bityeaover all the years to have the right voice. Tone. Yeah, you got! You have a very soothingvoice. You know, especially when the way that you do your podcast,it's just you talking to the to the audience out there. I think that's kindof a harder way to a broadcast. You know you have to carry the whole show,but you do it really well, and I appreciate how in depth you go with thestories and just highlight the way that they were investigated, hat'sfascinating to listen to, and I've really been enjoying going throughthose episodes. I appreciate that because I like to base a lot of stuffon data, an research and one of the things that I get frustrated with what the groups Iwas with is they started drifting away from fact and really just saying hey, let's putour all our faith in the story and when you would hear some of thestories just like you have got to be kidding me. It's like you actuallybelieve half of what you just said and some of the stuff that they weregoing into as so ridiculous. It wasn't funny claims about aliens claims aboutunderground tunnels, going clear across the United States ay they didn't do tack. chicking verylittle fat kicking only a couple members with and it got to the point. The one nightI was actually CO director. The group, the other director looked at me andsays you know. Why is everybody here and I looked at my so SA White, ahellof, my ear ndand I sent heman email that night Saii'me done Ni ta with Mov Fun, because we like baseball stuff on research anddata, and what I did is. I took all the time I was spending with the othergroup and actually transfered that over to doing the research now, can youexplain to anyone who might not know...

...what Mufon is well? No find is actually one of the biggest organizations in the world asfar as ufo research, an investigation, the thing that mov on does this one an individual hasa sight. They always wonder who to turn to howto get it. Research, investigate and so forth will move on originally had aring on paper, which is a pan of the butt that you could contact mov on. Itwould get you a paper report to fill out, you'd write it all out, longhandand t what you would do is have an investigator follow up with you, and originally I mean you had peopleholl different backgrounds coming and if no training really utter just a highinterest in that the yield of UF folks. But over the years now, they've changedfore. They started crating our own training programs on how to researchcases how to investigate cases they even created what they call MuvonUniversity, which is an online thing so that whennew investigutors want to come on board, Bacas go through classes, online, IO,elop or skills along with going through a training man and then once somebody goes, though, te the whole trading program. They have to actually take an examp, which I didyou got ta past the Exampe of a certain Perceng score and then you're allowedto start doing investigations of what we do in the HIOWAS. We put somebodyalong with an experience, an investigator to Mener them along theway wenwe bring them in andhe. Last year we had tw utdered.Some cases come into Ahigo alone, world wide. I forget what the numberwas. It was like twnd thirtyhusand, something like hat casis coming in theworldwide and the challenges following up on these cases. Doing the researchinvestigations and what we're doing is we're not out to depbug people rout tolook at their their siting. Look the report and I'm very honest with peoplesaying that he probably about eight percent of the stuff that somebodygives to e I can identify it could be here. Craft could be satellites, etc.But then you start getting on that ten to twenty percent, which gets way moreinteresting at you're. Like you know, hey it was't an airplane, you know Owasn't stars. This witnesslet's say reported missingtime. I think, like I talk to he thing about Rik wel. That was a good story.You know we're actually going to be camping in salt fork at the end of thismonth. That is going to be somethling that you know I want to get intotonight. But that's going to be that story will keep us awake. I thinkwemight not get much sleep wowere down there. Oh yeah, I mean it was a greatcase and I mean when you get clothing back, which has some trace evidence onwhen you get soil samples back that has some tres evidence. You still reach apoint, an you can't say: Hey. I know it alien afbepted, these people OL. I knowthe UFO landed, but you just had a mysterious case that you know hey. Wedon't have an explanation for it and I myself I on basically put thatcase aside and forget about it forever. I just kind of table off the SIDESAokay. Let's look for corelating information that maybe there's othercases to go help us form a better picture of this whole subject. We startcombining the SULF together, Oy lookd at t em from very seriouspoint of view. It's what I really appreciate about your organization andkind of referencing back what you said about the previous organization thatyou left if there's a subject matter right now in sort of this field of theunknown that doesn't need any embelghment. It's UFOS, oh without adoubt, because the other gopas in actually was tornback on thousded, a D onethousand. Nine hundred and fifty two was tat, H,Cleveland You FOLLO project, yes, yeah and I mean over the years, they've gonethrough transitions. I know some people...

...there's still that were involveden herter to excellent people, but it's just that the direction thegroup is a whole one. I couldn't agree with, but Havang going back to the early daysof Ufos, I mean you always had people that did good work did good research,but yhe had the other ones that were out. Who knows maybe is to make a bockoff of what Yeu were talking about yeah. I think it's just human nature to kindof sensationalize you known to Oh yeah, Oh yeah, and that that's the part thotbother me. So I'd rather look at the real data behind stuff, and that's like, like the case that you know you're,asking about the trouble county. Kase yeah, there's been some stuff on TVabout it, but I the trawback about the TV shows because I think UFO hunders to asegment on it matter. Of fact, a friend of mine was in the INIA episode, UPOhunters and I mean he's saying Gill Birns isactually trying to put words in his mouth and woren't correct. This is what really happened? Isn't? No.Are you sure this is won't really happen, Wel? What you getnvol to shows.Sometimes they try to put things Eronway, and I did a show for travel channel wasthat weited after after I shot my segment Ney, they put everythingtogether, they're actually twisting stuff around E, which I didn't like.What show was that? Do you remember there as actually one it was called UFO witness Ohi heard you talk aboutthat on your show. Is that tha? That's the one where they put the cameras onthe backpacks of the NELIAN investigators right, and that wasanother one that was chasingufothat Wa, one that one of the guys I know his name isJames. Tot He's a it produces documentaries out ofCalifornia he's a good researcher. He says I'm nota UFO investigator, but he's more o a researcher ten. He got talked into doing the showand they put infrorat cameras on backpacks and I sawmy sinor. They basically made your show chasing Youfos and model after chasing big FO, Yeah Finny, big foot,fighting big woot yeah, they said, I said all you needed is boo. o startrunning tithatit's fun, but I think it probablydoes not give the right impression of what a UFO researcher does or how theydo their job no andeven fin move on. I mean we've got about eight hundredinvestigators, worldlike you're, always going to find differing methodology. Ithink mine is fairly. I mean really good as far as looking at detailslooking at evidence trying to dig stuff up- and you have some other ones andstill go out and pay stuff off of got feelings, no matter what somebody saysyou know or what the policies and guidelines, because just going to gotheir own way, but it's human nature. You Know Caus, we you got to pair themup like a Fox moulder and a scooling. You know yeah. I wish you could butunfortunate. We always can't because, and sometimes people that are kind ofspaced out, then I've done cases donw. How many h United States knowmaybe three four hundred four hundred, maybe something like that and I've done another couple hundred inEngland because they needed some volunteers to help do long, distance,research and investigations, because in look on one time, wony had like fourinvestigators, so d did that require you to travel internationally? No, Idid everything long distance and that's where I really honed my skills and I was shocking a lot of people whatI can tell them by long distance research, ECAS the when I was doing that one, ourinternational director of times as I need somebody to help out in England,because we've only got like four...

...investigators in the bad part is outtefor all of one to be bosses. Nobody want to do be the basically you knoweverybody want to be chees right, and it's like you can't do that. So Istepped int like two hundred cases in a couple years yeah, and there was a lot of word to it.I mean it was lot of late nights almost every night. I hit some great cases,though, that they would have just totally gone by the wayside. If Ididn't look at, I mean some excellent cases over thereare there any that stick out that you found that you that doing that workover there, that you were not able to find an explanation for that stillremains. Unidentified yeah there was Wi ter actually turned over to some local investigators that finallystepped up because it involved in eproduction case. You told me I areally good story about how you debont one with a drone, which I wouldn't mindhearing again, but you did not mention one about an abduction. Well, this isone where also I don't. I don't talk about it allthe time, but I've had experiences myself going back N, and that was one of my earl earliestexperiences is actually very close up experience with the UFO W, andsometimes I think that maybe there's some like carryover effects from AllumYeer, because occasionally look the case, and this is what was really weirdon Thei ricks Iwas, doing these long distance cases and occasionally before witness. As a word, I have allthese visions popping in my mind and I'm seeing what the witness is going tosav before they ver sait. I mean it sounds crazy. I Wal sound like I'm theone coming from leftfield now, but I had witness Ta turn the case in fromEngland, and he said you know it happened when I wasyounger when it was like hes about eight years old,something like that and he says it kind of an BACD missing time. I said really Ande before he says the word: they'vegot a vision of a car going down the road with the old Hedgros on eitherside Narro road, and he says well what was happening. He says my family, my dad, my mom, my sister myself were driving down theroad going from a rural area heading towards London and he says we'redriving down this little road. I said, and a lot of the roads over there havehedges and stuff that he says and has pitches of stuff on either side we'regoing down the road a d. He says our car had like a little roof like a sunroof in that would open up and he says I'm looking at the roof. Isee three objects coming from a distance and it come directly over ourcar and theyre following us. Boun the road and I've got this vision in my mind ofthese objects in the car, wel he's going down to row and he saysall of a sudden. I look at my dad. He says, but the car comes over to theBurma Birof the road as far as they can and it dies post to a stop and he goes death. WHOS head goes, oversideways,MOM's head goes over sideways and he says my sister Bo she's ofstanding up in the seat. Basically, and he goes, I don't remember anythingafter that point. He says. Finally, you know he says he didn't know how long it was, but heremembers alike. Waking Up. He looks up N, his dad's head kind ofcomes back up, MOM's head comes up and dad just reaches up and stickre turnsthe car back on and keeps on driving, and he says they drive in theLondoneses when they get their dadsays or an hour and a half late and ofcourse they cannot account for he hour and a half in Pright, and he goes. Ididn't remember the story at all. He...

...goes my mother told me about it because shewas in a nursing home, we were watching, UFO show and he goes ther're justchannel serving saw UFOSIA and she waes rebn. We saw Youf Al years ago whenyour kid and he started remembering the incident he told he forgot about it when shestarted saying something he remembered all the details. andthey talked about it, an e provide me all the details, butthen some really weird stuff starte popping up. I mean I felt like parts in the conversation before yousaid a word. I was seeing what was on his mind. I was seeing what he's goingto say next, and that was kind of really weird, islike a correct connection. There do you have an explanation for that now, otherthan wells, different ones have thought just because of my own experiences.I've listened to your show, and you talk about something happened to youwhen you were a child, I think you were in South Carolina. Is that theexperience that you're referring to that was the one? Would you mindtelling telling us that I don't think my brothers heard it? I Ham yeah, well,Baine t here's actually a number of events down in SouthCarolina, my family moved the South Carolina when I was in te fifth grade and in the fifth grade we look have of lit a rol area is whenof the old roads out in the country where he had a few houses around youand then other than that. You know it was just who knows how many, how muchdistance from the other houses well me, and this this is pior. Whenyou may have heard on show to Rit one night, we used to put telescopes out ne Kywatching all the time. There's a few of US shat telescopes, an Sev, more O, theguys driveways we' all come from all over and put them an just do skywatching that night and one night I didn't show forwhatever reason one of my buddies. Does she been there last night, Manh says:There's a ufodo landed over a hill down past your house, I'm like man, it just besind me, youknow, is he'st trying to pull a Woll over. My Ige, you know give me nysstories. Well was after that point I startedhaving these feelings. If something was comingtowards me, nohe actually coming for me and it wastarted to havening almost anightly basis. I started having the sleet coralysis that people hear about and that the impression was. Is it and I alwayswrote off- is kind of like Ka just a childhood thing. You know, butsomething was there that something was there even in theroom. I couldn't see it, but it was there. Did you have a feeling that it wasmalevalent or you know like bad thing? No, I didn, no heel was a bad thing,but it just made me nervous all the time and kept happening. At the same time I developed severeulcers ECAUT. I found out a few years later almost killed me. They got thatbin. They were bleeding terribly, no matter what treatment the use theycouldn't get thim to stop and they were blaming all based on nervous conditions.An you were. You were young N, very young, like young Ceeager, Oh yeah, and we moved from that reach after a coupleyears out to even more rural area where we're surrounded, ly PEAC orchardseverywhere each torthures are wha. They called cutsunvines, which is a realheavy, dense bings on the ground. You, you can't run through the SCRAM. Well one of my buddies that I hooked upwith out there. He was two years older T, H, N, Ni pus, and we used to chokearound a d then go out as we called the Cuney talk you to say you ever gottenhunting now he's a Wi guy spare gun. Why don't you Gou with me andeventually got my own rifle? I talk my...

...parents into it. We started going outhunting, but really our hunting was shooting abandone, the appliancessoting anything to Ti yeah, that's my kind of hunting. We had twelve ups atthat, an your parents, nobody, I guess in the S or s, worried about young kidswith tol cages, Welin the t BLACA. My parents never knew about that. Theybought me to twenty two Afret Talkininto. It I'm pretty sure it'sthirteen when I got to twenty two, but they didn't know about the toll game. So e'regoing, let's go out nic sunnylike a Sunday Afternoo presur Sunday, a Sunday afternoon we went out hunting.We went back to like the peach. Horchards were going back to the woods,we're going deeper and deeper into the woods, and you could go a couple miles outhere without really hitting another house when you starte going away backin, we starte going deep e into the woodsand he start freaking out. He goes. You know hething wrong back here now he says:Well, THAT'S THE CROP! I don't hear anything.That's when I talking about Hesus, there's no sound anywhere and westopped I started listening. There was no squirrels. He was right. No birdsknow nothing around that old area and he goes ow. There's a sponpooleback here. I said so Palis. What's that mestarting describing basically big fwoot, I'm like yeah right man, you're justtrying to scare me Ato Campfire Stoore, I got a tolor, you Jannifree, a bigfoot, you know and rally was ha thrown the damn gundown and Gran ou the woods, but riting parts astedic going out of thewoods he started going deeper into it and he started getting more scared. Thewhole time sreaking out was just getting really nervous and I looked up as we're walking theepring of the woods. I see UFO hovering directly over the tea tree tops. It waskind of a sober disk. It wasn't really a like some peoplepicture Someith, sharp biaches that actually had rounded ig ust all around.How big was it? It was Boutsi Wi car, if not large an it was just followingus as we go through the Wood Otit wasn't making a sound. No soundwhatsoever and I'm looking up an he us, keep glancing up as we're going back indeepr inthe woods. I keep seeing this thing. It's like is trailings. Well, he I never tell him about it. For somereason. I don't know why, but I never said: Hey look up man. We just kept going deeper and deeperinto the woods. He starts. Picking up speedy t e starts getting more scier, and eventually we got to a point thathe's fasially running through the woods. We eventually hit this car covered roadthat was like spray on Tir they put on Becau. That's how irl was at ta time. We hit this road, we knew whee, we wereApisid, okay, let's ofk the road back. When I go in the woods and the minutehe hits the road. He says man, you see that big white owl standing in front ofus back there o what the hell you talking about it,big whit out. He said there is a big Aland he's holding his arms out likefour feet high. It was standing in front F. had this you these huge eyeson- and I don't remember seeing at all- butI never told him either about UFL above the tree- tops sod that o thing thatjust gave me goose bunps I mean, maybe that's the way the alien wanted him toperceive him or the ET. Well, that's the same. I Lat last, maybe like ten,the fifteen years stories a come out about the owls being associate few offlevents and our event happened before anything like this ever came out. Imean this: Is Nineteen Sixty eight Maby, something like Thas, even my space, sotalk Aboutwateeriin, film, Faraspurightyeah, Oh yea, beforeall.That stuff I mean, is always that ufo...

...connection with big foo that so we gotwe're walking back in the whole way back. He kept talking about this, howNL Hal de- and I don't remember- but I never told him even after thatabout the UFO was above ust a whole time. Why do you think thats it just a blockin your in your mind at the time where it's just too far to remember? Well,that's what I think part of it was is something was trying to. You knoweither maybe create a image in our mind that wasn't this farful looking, youknow, scary, looking you cratea nowl, I mean how many people are going to beafraid of bout out and not think about fact s for footall o help. You knowwhat else, though, now to get too far X. Oer I've had some paranomal experience.is nothing nothing big like this, but I think there's part of your rationalbrain. If you're seeing things that you can't explain, you can't accept it.Just it gives up, it's just doesn't know where to file it or what to dowith it. So you just kind of you have to move on and ye kind of gets lost inyour memory, and it was after that that's when itreally start piing up the sleep Pralis as Etense. After that point, we also had to run in with you know. Now people would sayits temenin black. Oh do they come after this we were. Wehad a car start showing up every night driving by our houses. We look acrossOm each other yeah, this greatly old groll farmhouse across the road they kept coming byabout every night and then he would start pulling and nothim. His drive with my dry shining lights right in heur house and nobodyhad ever called police on what was an old poor Gallison, and this was before again the old t, ethe men and black movies ever came out. He's ever came out d doing that type ofstuff. I mean this was way back before them: The black car, a black giwas Ffor Galos, I'm not eting it haw to be a black coucn. Then one night we decided the walk upto a gas station, op Throa to get a soda. It was the only thing we could reallydo back. In So said, Hey, let's go up there. An was dark already after Gard,so walkd about half a mile down the road to the local gas station. No onlything was: are that Soda, we're walking back and we'reprobably about three fours away back when we hear car coming Behindus, we turned around. Look, there's nolights well. This was begin, basically a tarcovered road. We see the outline of a car and justkind of like the ambient light, so we're lik get the Hel off the road man.We were off the road. We go up into a some, the binage and finally get backinto the pace. Trees. The car comes down swears up the BIRMI. The road upas far as ye can in the peachorgh on Toardes then goes back on the road andzips off. I mean Scari trying to kill you, Oh yeah. Well, here's TA thing I foundout since I've talked to you. Oner II was trying to track my buddie down foryears. I hung out with back ten and I keptgetting dead ends. everyword except two weeks ago I found out a few years after I left.He was run down and killed by the CAR Youe kidding. No, he was on a motorcycle n somebodyraining down Di you dod. They ever you know, findthe person to hit him or they're NOTA. I don't know I haven't Gott that faryet, but you they didn't. I bet you was a hidden run. Black Ford Golt Y ma, butwas unsolved, hidden run, but I'm sorry about your friends yeah it just justgot me when I came across I'm like Holy Shit and you're pretty out there. Youknow what I mean if they were still...

...looking to silence you you're outspoken,about this phenomenon and it almost sounds like you were marked, maybe moreby the the ufos than the men in black, because EFV sallowing you across houses.Well and after that point, even when we returned back to Ohio after onethousand nine hundred and sixty nine, I still have experiences going on and thethere's even one to this day that that say, there's things going on onthe Paradoma say so started experiencing paranormalstuff after the ufone counter. Well, there's I've had I don't know how many casesnow half a dozen cases where I've been able to odagialize everything. That'sin the witnessis wine before they say a word M and his paces seemed very strongbup. What was really weird, as I did a up, I got called into do a investigation onthe reported right, Patterson potopsy, witness yeah and my fo sent me indirectly for that. Thed am talld this before e state director in co Statedirector what it was doing that night, they had no flu. What I was beingcalled out to do. That's like a pig Mo investigation yea an only toling twopeople in Nefun knew what it was doing. So I went out to interview the witness andit's one of those cases where, atthe end of the day, you get a good story, but no concrete evidence behindstuff. Yes, he could prove he was there. Yes, he could take an name certainthings up, but there's still things that left ad oubt butwhat was really weird about. It was AI, go out and meet the guy and hiswife in a restaurant because they want to be in a public place and he goes Wen. Introduce myself and this wifelooks at me like. I am just like something she can't identify and shes. Just looking at me andlooking at me and looking me at Coodi, can't put a finger on it, but we goahead and do the interview for like a couple hours and once I've done. She gives me reallyweird look again. I said you know it's. I can't help it say something. I saidyou give me a very strange look an before. She says a word. He goeswell, my wife is a psyche but anybod Sayter Sihe. You know, there's a lot of people out there whoclaim to be Andhshe, looks at me and SaysgotAveryweid ound, because I've never seen any oror aroundyour body in my life like this one, and she goes, I just tell you one thing:You're not done with he and she goes what you SA. What are youtalking about? She was, you know what I mean they are not donewith. I said who she goes yeah and you know who they are. Did that terrify you when you heardthat well kind of Freakng ye a little bit? I gotta be hot, but Yo it woulfreak me out. Who Do you think they are? Do you just describe it to like anextra intelligence or something stranger yeah? I think it'san extratrestial being of some sort, nowthe question next is: Are theyreally from another world or today from this world, which I don't know wereanother dimension? Yeah, that's what I mean another dimension there are theyfrom that. I don't know, but I just know that there's some sortof a presence there. I just feel it I mean. I think it's clear. Even thesceptics have to admit that people are seeing things and, more and more likewe have more and more concrete evidence that people are seeing things that arenot easily explainable. I guess we could debate. What's behindit. You know you asked a great question on your show once an I've been thinkingabout this all week. Yes, if, if you...

...learned that these crafts in thisPamama was caused by extraterestrial or a foreign power withvancely superior technology, which would scare you more and it', somethingthat I've been thinking about- and I don't know for sure which one I'm goingto choose yet but its a great question Eahif, you think about Iti- mean whowould, you be more afraid of otheone again, I'm thinking this extraterrestoral presence may have beenaround for Millenna Frowi O, but for a foreign power may actually bemuch more scary. Somebody like a China or a Russia, or somebody yeah, Taria,North Korea. That would be very scary, mbecause, I kind of know how they woulduse it like you said with the ET, if it's them and they may have had thitechnology for thousands of years. I haven't really used it against us. Somaybe right, but like you in the beginning ofour talk, you were saying how you get these reports and you can kindof diagnose like eighty of them Wright, eight percent of them right away, yeahand there's that twenty percent, and that I bet fifteen to eighteen percentof that is like you know, the Defense Department has something that even thenavy doesn't know about yet and that's Ol, but then there's that, like fivepercent, that I mean if thing to rush or something have this technology ofthe past, a hundred or however many years that we have of modern citingslike why haven't they done anything with it? That's what hanks me. I don't think itcould be honestly. Another nation I mean, like maybe some of the droneSidis. Like you know, you were talking on one of your episodes about a videothat you watched in China. They had dorm earth swarms of drones, Li theycould be government technology yeah, and I think,when you're getting into like the drones and stuff like Aything, you know:That's, that's our technology, like the tiktack video, you know like the way.That's nothing. No one knows how to do that. Yoah Kn, we don't understand thephysics or how to break the sound varrier without causing sonic boomslike the nobody. No nation has jumped that far ahead of everybody elsewithout anyone else knowitg about under they cantoll that nation right now,yeah and one of the things about, like the tick tact, is reported Olsor, oneunderwater. Yes, we get Ati here, you've got a craft which can travelthrough Multimediu, they can go and ere the Air Goto water,and reportedly I mean there were things that it was going at high speed.underwar an remember, then T, you know the navy. Video shows no heat,signature, no visible means of repulsion, no wings to create lift. So none ofthat sounds like anything that any nation state has developed, or evenreally that we know they've experimented with you're right. Andi was talking to one of my friends W.actually we lent through a case he turned in. He was from Canada and his back. He was actually in theDefense Department, Canada and w sounds kind of like and already is that justme that you call the United States if something happens. Well, actally turned the recort en people ingaway. I calld Ho and you startd researching it, and I'mlike this guys showing me stuff on Foro analysis at Man. This guy is too damngood in fogol analysis. Now I used to do. I still do a lot of threeddesigning, rendering and so for shading lighting.I said this guy's punting out details and ninety nine percent of t e people willnever notice in a photogramh ats, a I know who this guy is, but he'sgot some knowledge ne after number conversations has just such noicis.This is what I do for the Canadian desense department tirtl analysis of Ufos Wel, Actalyoeings. He was in the military. So what D he DOIS AI't sending results of bombstrikes me interpret everything...

...and I looked him up and I did see thatyeah, that's what his background was, but also as a hobby was into sufmarings and he was even qualified on submarines and we got into a conversation. Iy saidyou know what, if you had an object, you could break the water ahead of the, so it really wasn't Pushi against thewater. Something was breaking the forest of water before ever heart and I use some terms along ofcabitation stuff like that and all a sudden he hit on some things. He's likethat's possible. If you could break the you know thewater, the resistance of the water against the option it could travelfaster and you're. Seeing some articles now come out on that concept, the Thatst, what they think you knowmay could be potentially going to happen. Elo like sufferings to gofaster. You break this water ahead of the ship right, so you're, essentiallymoving through Aro almot yeah, almost yeah, I don't even understand heconsetkind obut Wante is see and that's A. I guess we don't know you know, we don't knowwhat we don't know, so maybe that tick tack, Yuap really is a lot closer tostuff that humans are doing right. Now, it's just a really interesting casewith h the tick tack I mean David Fraver coming forward about it, thepilot right and when the other pilots have spoken a little bit but the whole.The whole story is not coming up because one of them adaction, a pile of the second plane,was female and she's still in the military, and she was a Rooki at the time fromwhat Favori sit gon leave it there for this episode,but don't worry. We have second part and probably a third partactually with Thomas Warman coming up and we're going to actually get intothe reason that we called Thim, which was to talk about this amazing incidentto Hapn inone, housand, nine hundred and ninety four over war in Ohio andTrumbll County, one of the best documented uoffo siting. You know it'sdefinitely worth a listen. This whole conversation is just so fun andinteresting he's just one of those guys that everything he says is great yeahand you know like we're so glad that he shared all his experiences andknowledge and crazy stories with us that we just wanted to. Let him go. Imean when the guy, like Dat stars, tellingyou stories, you just shut up and listen right, yeah. No, I think you'rereally going to enjoy it so until next week, Yol next time. Kid Me.

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