Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

Look AT That UAP Report!

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Good news America! A group of elected officials succeeded in doing something useful for a change and we are finally going to get to the bottom of the UFO phenomena. 

Ok maybe not, but that is what we were hoping for. What we got instead was a 9 page summary of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) that the Pentagon has been quietly studying. 

Tonight we are joined by Ohio MUFON Director, Thomas Wertman, a man who has spent decades studying and investigating UFOs and other encounters with unidentified aircraft. We will go through the report with him and get his reaction. Your gonna wanna hear what he has to say.


 

On tonight's episode of the invisibleships podcast, it's all about the dods report on u aps, which is a veryconfusing way of saying that the government has something they want totell us about ufo any time before two thousand and twenty i'm sure none of uscould have imagined that the government would be telling us anything at allabout ufos. But then you couldn't have imagined that the government was goingto pay you to stay at home and not work either. Anyway, we got what we alwayswanted right. The government is actually confirming that there issomething going on above our heads that none of us can explain. So why arepeople still disappointed? You know, there's some people out there that werereally hoping that there would be some kind of mention aliens or some kind ofrelease that we are already in contact with them, that maybe we got a moonbase or something with aliens, but that wasn't what this report was in me about.The report was always going to be about what the military had been tracking andand what their explanation of what their scene was, and basically they'resaying that they have no idea what we're up against that. It's, notsomething that we created and that we're pretty sure that it's not comingfrom any other country well to help us unpack this and go through the report.We've invited thomas wortman he's the director of the neutral ufo networkhere in ohio. For those you don't know, moon is one of the largest. I think thelargest and one of the oldest civilian groups that investigate will folreports and they've been around for a long time, and they do a very good job. They are not easily full. They don'tcome in trying to confirm that everything that people see are ufos. Infact, they kind of do the opposite, they're, not sceptics, but they take avery disciplined approach and just real quick before we get started just forour listeners. I d n, i don't know the exact details, but i do know that youeither had a call right before this or you have a call right after this andyou're at an end, demand guy right now. So we really do appreciate you takingthe time tonight for sure that's right! Well, it's it's been a little bit crazy, i'm doingsome newspaper interviews and because right now we kind of look at it. It'slike ufos are to sexy story right now on of news yeah, exactly me, the ghosthunters and a pair of normals been it for some time. You know, yeah, take asea dig foot! That's right! Well, i mean, like you know your field of study,there's actually tangible evidence that we all kind of knew was out there for along time, but how the government, who used to say we're crazy, is saying thatyeah it's for real. What are your first impressions? I guess of the preliminaryassessment, the nine pages that they gave us well. Actually i look at itthis way. If you go back and really count it and i'm looking at it from aneducation point of view, like being a being in the classroom for years as aneducator, the first first page is a cover page. So we throw that out. Youknow the the next page actually is about apartial pages, go it's kind of giving the scope of what's going to be goingon in the report. Okay, this is what going to be talking about so like,let's almost throw that out too. Let's see the the final page says: okay, thisis the topics we wanted to cover so really, when you get down to it,you're really about five and a half pages, a full report that page three isimportant because they say give us some money. So we can study more that,that's exactly it so you're grading what they did and probably what s orlower well on the third page yeah they that's, that's basically, where reallygood starts getting into the meat is on the third page, and what i did is a little bit crazy.As i went back to the final page when i started reading it and matter of fact, i forgot to mentionto that. One of the pages said: okay, a u ap is this anyway. P report is this: yes, it'slike oh come on, you know is a word account. They had a film. I exactlythat's what i was thinking of is. I had a thousand words and nine pages towrite. So, let's face it out, i've done that yeah. But in reality, when i lookat it, i was disappointed in one fact that youknow it's very very brief. It's very superficial, which i didn'texpect much death. That was where most of mydisappointment was at, but in reality it's actually what i expected from the report, and when i looked atthe report to me, it told me a number of things to begin with they're saying one of the biggestproblems that they had was getting data now a lot of the guys. I know uforesearch is going back on those s, i mean these guys are hard core they'vegot mammoth libraries and a number h were willing to offer.You know basilike terabytes of...

...information, which is greatly appreciate, there'smuch historical stuff there back from a realistic point of view. They said in december. They wanted thisreport do in ju, so you've got six months right, so you're only going tobe able to look at a limited data set and within that to me, you're going towant to get the most recent data, because why all these reports of mainreports has got the media's attention have been focusing on the recent stuff,primarily from two thousand four daily: lift an imien cower, so they're goingto be focusing on that because one they have to answer to congress. What iscongress interested in most of them are not looking at roswell in all these oldcases. They're looking at stuff- that's happening here and now with ourmilitary they're, looking at also for a national defense point of view, whichis completely understandable, so they focused primarily on this newerinformation. I'm glad you said that, because i've heard you know some fopodcast other ones, that i listen to you and they're mad- that they'reignoring a history or trying to restart history, and i don't think we shouldignore history, because it's super important. But you know, if you readthe report, they say we're looking at first hand by military aviators thatwere collected from systems we consider to be reliable. You know they can onlygo on the things that they know and i think going forward be getting a lotmore reports on them now that they, because there's like two thousand andnineteen and ay put the reporting kind of checklist in place in twenty,is when the air force got on board. So it's kind of early days, yeah,absolutely and i've got and i'm glad you mentioned a number- the other onesaren't really looking at it. That way. They're looking for historical point,believe me, i look at history too, because i've got half a garage full ofour chival material. Yes, you told me about from the from the floor to therafters of great research material, but i've gotten more logic behind. Why isay that- and i don't know if they're looking at this side or not when welook at all this, these newer cases, starting from like tenemos, yes, you'vegot pilot information and it's covering one of the things that they had inreport. In the report. They were mentioned that they wanted a certaintype of sensor. Data analyzed well in the old reports. To begin with, whatyou have is a lot of information being passed on by word ofmouth, either. Direct interviews with witnesses, secondhand information coming fromwitnesses, which is older information and the problem is, is you're can haveto be filtering that out to find out what is factual and what may not befactual, because you know that when a story is being retold over and overagain different individuals may forget stuff,different individuals may add stuff and they put their own take on it, so thatdata they really be. You know kind of like mixed up at thatpoint. That's a problem, but when you go tothese recent cases, they're getting stuff first hand, like you, saiddirectly from their own military pers melt right while they're getting it from the people themselves directly, andthey even had a comment in her about that. They said that these individualsinvolved in some o these instances were never talked to either formally or in formly bygovernment personel. So that's another issue. We can look atlater, but you've got the talk coming in from the pilots, their descriptions. Secondly, something that you don't havein lot of archival material. You don't necessarily have rad our data foreverything right. They can pull radar data, which falls into tolly differentcategory of censor data. They can go back and say: okay, let's,let's pull all the rated read our data from not just one ship in that region,but all the ships in this region for comparison. They can look for any radiosignals. I mean these ships are manned with equipment. In some casesthey were like spy ships more or less right out there, rick listening andcollecting information, so think about how many eye witnesses, because, likethe nimitz that was observed by like two other ships and they're all lookingat the same radar screen because they can share it and stuff. So you hundredsof people viewing these things and you're right, and that's all that youheard about. But when you have to met this out there there's a whole taskforce there. It's not just a minute to an two ships, you're going to havedestroyers you're going to have the litoral class ships is with you isays: omaha was ships like that may have also been the region that nevershowed up into reports in that instance one that they mentioned the most, andthat's how i you know it's this, not china, russia, flash in their jonesthat am lights at the ships out there in the pacifi ocean, like we wouldshoot them down...

...like to me. That's i don't know. That'sjust me, though, i don't know much about the military, but it seems to meif you're russia you're not going to zip over and flash of light and try tofreak out the navy, especially off of virginia beach for san diego right. Youknow the right, pretty sensitive, yether, there's certain areas that aregoing to be question, but there's even limitations about that. Ifthey're within the twelve mile limit, that's one thing: if they're outsidethe twelve mile limit that can be considered an active war exactly itcould be, i still that so you could be coming up, basically rubbing it in theus's eyes, hey look what we can do and you can't do a thing about it. Yeah,that's is r outside of territorial waters. That's actually a really goodpoint, because- and russia does do that, all the time out by their black sea andstuff, like that, don't they like fly pete they've had an incident off of oneof the areas over there already yeah. That is really is m. Yeah russia'sclaiming is like a territory and it's the us is saying: no, it's not yourterritory, but that's a whole nother yeah, georgia. That's what it isexactly well going back to censor data. I meanyou've got the radar you've got, they may be picking up. They mentioned inthe reporter rs signals that they weren't descriptive on. Was it radiosignals coming from the thing or was it information coming from? Let's saysomething that was transmitting something back like there is it was being controlled remotely? Doyou think they were manicatis? Well, i don't know because it was sovague when he just said urff his radio frequency and that can cover a lot of territory. So i mean you've got two differentcensor data there. Besides satellite imagery, you can be picking up things bysatellite, not just by photographs, but you be picking up in for red there's. So many things in that area, so you've got really multiplecategories that you could be looking at for potential for lack of better wordright now, trace evidence evidence that this thing was there. Besides thevisual sightings of the pilot to cruise etcetera, now that's what they focusedon the new material and i've even got a better argument for why they did. If somebody's looking at the report,long car montori the stuff over a long term basis, one of the biggest challenges withhistorical datas number one. You have to digitize everything number two. You have to fill her outthe good stuff from the bad stuff, which is a major major challenge andthere's people. That's tried develop algorithms for data mining, yeah andthey're. Just like scratching your head like. How do you really do that? But ifyou've got information coming in from similar radar system, similar type ofdata coming in there you've got the pilot reports. You have optical imageryand so forth on here you can date, a mine that stuff probably much easierusing artificial intelligence. That's what they learn as we go. That'sactually a composa in the in the preliminary report. They say they wantto use advanced algorithms, to search historical data captured and stored byradars, correct in flito. What you do from thatpoint, as you develop a system for artificial intelligence, you can screenout the stuff that you can eliminate as most likely really to aircraft or someother known phenomena. So you can really go after this unusual stuff oryou know, potentially things related to drones of an unornate or things likethat. You can go after those regions. Once you just start developing thatprogram, you get a solid program established then what she do as shestarted, adding in the older historical information, and you start looking for similarartifacts from the new stuff into the old stuff, and you start collecting more of ahistory, but i think you've got to really develop that new system and it's kind of like the sayingof throwing out the baby of the bath water but you're starting from scratch, and that may be the best way makes sense. It might be easier on thepsyche of the public to say no. These things started in two thousand and four,not that we had tick tax, one thousand nine hundred and forty two or thingsflying over the white house. Well, the problem is, is the big thingnow is people are turning in reports report after report after port, andthere saying i saw a tick tack. I saw ticktack well until they mentioned that word.You didn't really see that used a lot. So now everything is comparing it to detick tech, one bch yeah, yeah rasor yea more cigar shape. When you go back to the phoenix lightsback in th s, people started seeing...

...tons of triangles yeah and everything iwas just like the phoenix late. So one of the problems i have is nowpeople compare it back to major instance, and the thing is: is it really the same?Does that instant or not i'm sure that there's some amount ofband wagoning or mass hysteria or whatever you want to call it? Peoplecopy cats, but i least theoretical that what whoever's behind this technologycould be changing, also and as over the years go by the shapes and descriptions of thecraft would naturally change you think that is possible. It's a very distinctpossible possibility, look at our own aircraft. If you go back to what hundred and fifteen yearshundred and seventeen years to the right brothers m, you've got this twowing craft with our cake, arona capability and now, when you comeup, and you look at some of our newer craft, like the f, f, thirty, five andso forth, the things at these vectored engins is so forth. Look at for that matter. Look at space x, launching a rocket and landing it onthe same path. Yes, that was that was only things in the movies in on th s.Now it's reality. You would have to think that a alienculture, extraterrestrial culture or who's ever behind this would also advance their technologiesplus also there's another thing you can throw into it. Just throwing the extraterrestrial side.Let's say that we do have visitors coming in from other worlds, what's to say that maybe there'sdifferent windows of opportunity for different groups to come here very goodpoint, so that could be different races or species of extra tressil visitingthat different time. Maybe the ones from the fort saw whatever they wantedto see and, and they moved on. Who knows that's right, i mean look at whenwe do a launch for let's say mars: we have a certain window, that's a properwindow to launch a rock at the mothers. So maybe they do a similar thing andthat's just looking at it from the point of let's say what, if it's an etcoming here, what, if they're ets behind us when, when i look at the report, they mentioned it a hundred and fortyfour reports is what they analyzed: yeah, not a whole lot and the first thing people say ahundred and forty four a. I won't use their words. But are you kidding me?That's all i mean how many reports people have but again these aremilitary related, primarily between two thousand and four in up to baselypresent, and these are military reports that actually conclude video taken frommilitary craft and picked up on their radar. Eighty of them had multiplecensors, which is pretty exciting. I mean i believe that i'm not taking anything away from thecredibility of my witness account, because i think a lot of them can bebelieved. But here you have like tangible evidence, it's exactly what itis is evidence. It's like what time was saying earlier. Even like i've heardpeople are bummed out that this doesn't get into abductions or they'll knowpossible, like grays or whatever, but anything like that is subjective,necessarily like that. There's no data to go along with it, so they couldn't,even if they wanted to get into that on this one, that's right and when you'reinvolved with paranormal, when you look at reports coming fromwitnesses when you've got reports of motile witnesses two three years, so imean you look at that, probably stronger than which you do just oneindividual for sure the same here you said you said toeighty reports involved multiple censors, it's like to me multiplewitnesses now yeah you've got to support it from other means. What isamazing about this? Unlike other aspects of paranormal or anythingunknown out there is that, like scientific instruments are recordingthis now and i think to a lot of people outthere. That goes a long way, because instruments more or less are non,biased and not subject to a lot of the same mistakes that a human i could bemistaken, something natural for something unnatural it just to me. Ithink that is is pretty cool, that we have actual top of the line instruments,recording things own owen, you're right unless you're one of the sceptics, thenthe skeptics say it well- could be possibly instrument here. Well, that'st the other advantage by a lot of...

...military equipment. I mean, if youthink, how it o d probably be being monitored, track and so forth on. Here it's probably got a very high degree.Vacuity, oh yeah, i mean they're not buying cheap stuff. I seen the bills,and these are reviewed by radar experts by sun or expert video expert like it'snot like it didn't occur to them, that it could be a censor thing and it'slike the first sentence. The report is we rolled out since the that's that's correct and what theymost likely also did they didn't mention is in some of these cases theynot only looked at you know the different branches of the militarylooking at the video or that they shouldn't say video but rad our data.They probably e, went back to the manufacture of the equipment, theengineers to get their input to see if there is potentially flaws in a systemthat may have paraded these so they're. Looking at this whole thing frommultiple areas, that's another in geting, yeah yeah, and when you seethis eight number again, eighty that i mean you're with what fifty five tomaybe sixty percent of the cases off the top of my head, yeah or more havemultiple data. And if you go back and look at a historical data and did acomparison, i'm sure it wouldn't even be close and here's a good one for you ineighteen incidents described in twenty one reports. The observers reportedunusual, ap movement patterns or flight characteristics, they're talking aboutremaining stationary and winds. Aloft move against the wind maneuver abruptlymove at considerable speed. I just think it's interesting for a guy, likeyou, that's been involved in this community for so long. This is what youguys have been researching and talking about, since you know the s and s andstuff like that, without a doubt, because when i doreports and investigations myself, i got some in this morning where peopletook videos of objects moving across the sky. One of the things first thingsi do is i actually pull up weather conditions and i look at the weather conditionsoutside to see what direction the wind is going in. What this ceiling height is a roughlycalculate out to know what the cloud cover is. So if you see an object, isit below to cloud cover and the cloud courses altitude, and we know that theobject must be below that cloud cover. Also, if you see the object, movingwith the wind or against a win can be a big fact: yeah yeah, the one one i asplay. Well, i had a video coming in came in to me today. I've reviewed- andit was a great video- the witness actually did a very accurate report and he could see objects rising from the ground coming across and it was roughly aboutfourteen objects flying not in unison, but- and i don'twant to say c- quenche is almost like randomly released. Some were releasedin palacia of two or three other ones came out like one and so forth, andthey're moving across the sky and based on the geography in the photograph. Icould track it on google earth and say: hey these things are coming from thesouth west and moving to the northeast ahi could roughly calculate out theirspeed based on how fast it they want to cross the frame kind of like based on an angle ofdifferent points, depending on how far they were away. So i could see that okay, if they'recoming from the southwest going to to northeast check the wind conditions andthe wind conditions for the day of deciding were wins from the south westat seven miles an hour now when they say the windsor from the south west.That means dasted a direction to win. Is originating from not not thedirection it actually ends up at so it was going in the exact same.These were going to sack same direction as to wind. They were following it. Iam tinints right, that's exactly what they were m, always chinese lantern,always chinese landers, and the thing is interesting: they were launched from her. They wereactually seen in a relatively condensed area of housing and businesses, but thearid i saw him coming up in the video. When i want on the google earth, thereis actually a large playground right there that had ballfields and everything else which have been perfect launching site o sins is agood way to proof test your investigation skills, though oh it is,i mean, that's why i look at it mean you're, building your skills onincidents like these, so when the bigger things come along, you'reprepared for it, you've, tone your techniques and that that's lice sorrygo ahead. I mean it coushatta. I see some individuals not doing as they lookat the case and profecia and say: okay, it's got to be chinese landes, basemen,video boot and in bulan wolka go back and just go through these differentskill sets. I call them challenes to...

...test. You know my knowledge ability.Okay, let's see where these things could potentially come from. Let's seeif the math would work out based on the wind conditions at okay, if it they'reactually moving at seven miles an hour how long it take him to get from pointeight to point b, so you build your skills. It's cetra issuper important, not not only for the unreasonably skeptic but for peoplelike me, like i get excited at every video i see and it's like oh yeah, itreally was a balloon or the bouquet effect or whatever. So it's good thatwe have people like you, unbiased kind of cut these up for us. I think that'swhat i respect about move on to as it you know they do. You guys do a greatjob of investigating and you're, not so sold on any one theory that you're. Ifit's, you can't explain it, you'll say you can't explain it, but if you canyou'll be honest with what the explanation was, but i was i've beenwondering, and i really wanted to ask you this because ever since that'sreally started taking off i've dying to talk to you, i part of you: do you feel kind ofvindicated that this is coming out now, after being an investigator for so manyyears, and i'm sure that there's been times where you know, people have toldyou that you're, crazy or you're wasting your time and now all the leading scientists and militaryindustrial, complex and everything is coming out and kind of indicating whatyou've been talking about. There's a degree of that i mean i've.I've been picked on by the friends. I've been the one who is oh yeah where's your tin foil, had attoday you know and and all the basic jokes like that, or you know they kindof in that was in a business mein. The oneday on i was in the universities and one of my superiors looked at me.He says what do you do for a hobby and i said well and i knew he had amilitary background and i said i kind of research ufos andhe said, and he didn't laugh, he says yeah. I know all about you. He reallyhad a sarcastic, arrogant, appearance comments. You know towardsthe whole thing and it was disappointing. You know so. I've been through all that, but now a lot of people want talking, but theygo. Oh yeah, yeah. I saw that stuff on tv. You know like like this. We canspend twenty four seven ufos on travel chap and i hate to tell you what ithink of some of the shows. But but the thing is you know i do feelthat he, the government, is at least moving forward, because that's what theother point said i going to make is you mentioned earlier about, in this casethe navy starting their own program to basically start looking at cases in aserious manner in two thousand and nineteen, because when project bluebook went out in one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine, i look at this.We had all these old hard copy reports, stuff wasn't being done on computers,you can't kind of an archaic system and that system was extremely biased,depending on who was running it at the time on what the outcomes were going tobe. If he had, somebody was a skeptic they're going to be basically trying todebunk a lot of stuff, put it down yeah. Now they basically said that hey, you know.After blue book shut down, we we might have taken information most likely, butthere was nothing in a formalized manner is the key that nothing that wasstandardized, and i could see that then they said that the air forced,like he said, jumped on board like what two thousand and twenty something likethat und twenty yeah, two thousand tousand twenda nineteen. They jumped onboard an about a year and a half two years after the nati. I could also see that because thebranches of the military are very competitive, i mean think about this way. You yourfirst while you're competing for money for your different branches. Also, you've got your pride in your ownorganization and you're going to be to me lookingout for your own organization first, so you're going to be looking what'sbest for that. So if the air force develop something they say hey, whatwe've got is good. We don't care really what the navy does we're, not workingworried about being uniform. It works for us that was the rumors for thiswhole report too, that the navy was helpful and that was about it yeah, and there is actually a follow upletter to this report that basically stated that they want a standardizedsystem developed period and the standardized system needs to goacross to board. With the structure i mean it needs tobe in the navy, the air force, the marines,the army coastguard. Everybody should be usingthe same. Standardized form feels like it's self disclosure. Doesn't it yeah yeah now? Are you skeptical thatthey're going to misuse this i mean now...

...we have the military and whether or notthey standardize how they're going to report it and release it to us. You know what are they going to leaveout? Are they going to utilize us for their own purposes, to either get moremoney or or who knows what just part of me? I think i know a lot of people veryexcited about this part of me is sceptical. The people that are going tobe telling us you know the military, this going to be given us littleinformation if we can trust them, yeah, i'm always skeptical. That's whygoing to looking at things? I said: okay, let's go and cautious as i callit and let's see what they're saying, butone of the first things i picked up on the report was well. We've establisheda fact that we are observing things our military's observatis. We can't explain so we need to continue this and we alsoneed more money to go along with it yeah. That was one of the first thingsi picked up on. So i'm like wait a minute. Is this a way to say? Okay,let's get more money for defense spending in some manner, every seemedlike it kind of right. It did seem like it the the thing it's going back to mythoughts so in they had done the standardization. If you get these reports first of all,all standardized, then we need to go back to use the artificial intelligencefor basing everything from a standardized system which, to me wouldbe much easier to crape the architectural for artificialintelligence. Then, once you create that report,here's the that's the problem. You mentioned what is going to be in andwhat's going to be redacted, basically, all we good stuff are they going to?Are they going to take and come out and say? Oh by the way, yeah, we canexplain the the twenty nineteen things seen by dyoma hall. Those weredefinitely drones. The question still out, though, whothey really were. I really appreciate the way you think, though, and i'vesaid that, before wanting to talk to you but you're watching the hands andnot the rabbit in the hat or whatever it so they're standardizing the reportsthat they can for their serious business with this in their artificialintelligence and actually figure out how to build their own ufo is basicallywhat i think they're trying to do well and if you look at this way, if you've got all this information- andyou use your artificial intelligence, it's you're right. It's going to bemuch easier to tan anything! You want out of those reports if you findsomething, that's related to et you're right, you're, going to be able to maybe gathered, an information, much quicker about et the sidings are beingmade, on the other hand, for national defense site if you track certain objects in certainregions a lot or if you detect certain sensor data in this region- and youfind out it's related to these things- maybe you can predict where thesethings are at and also what type of systems they may be using. I hate to keep interrupting, but youkeep gran good points and when you just said that they even mentioned in thereport in the the next steps phase, basically they're going to startstudying, i think they said three places. I'd have to find the way theyactually said. If they mentioned three places or areas of the world where theycan expect the up phenomena and i'm interested in where that is, i thinkone of them is probably virginia beach, o one's going to be off of virginiabeach, most likely going down to the caribbean and not just because of a ometo triangle. But it's really because that's where a lot of the militaryoperation area is m off the east coast, then when he go out into the west coastor looking off of california predominantly canons the third area.That's that's kind of hard to say that could be so many different regions. Isit something in a pacific? Could it be some place that we don'treally anticipate? I think it could be the pacific ocean, near china, where alot of stuff has been building up and at least if it was some of it, wasterrestrial and origin. That would be a good place to look of his extraterrestrial in virgin. Then we don't really know what their motivationswould be. Your right were to look for them yeah. I don't know where i likethe number three. By the way, sorry, they just say they're, going to clickin the most likely areas to encounter up yeah and- and if that's the big thingis, you want to try to predict where they're at an so that's why they want to reallycrack those areas. But you know, i think, that's what whatthey really want to develop is a standardized system to really tritidentifies an a lot of stuff. I don't know if you saw the new videobe came out like yesterday day before. Yes, i did it was. I heard somebody term, it is lame andit kind of was i had i come around yeah.

You had two objects, which appeared tobe kind of, like maybe drones, and i was almost i may be it completelymisinterpreting, but it may be something like a clod copter typedesign. Yes, because they're able to hover- and you had lights on the edges now whether they'relike on the corners of a quad cop right, don't know, but you had two lights or can observe,and then it appeared there was almost like an aircraft moving over to regionin the background because it had a flashing like and one of the things i'd want to knowis for that is that if that's an aircraft in the background, isn't oneof ours moving around back here trying to track something- and i just wonder you know behind those,but the videos themselves didn't offer a whole lot- that real, quick yeah, the the video is interesting. If it'sas german corbel says in the video of that goes along with the radar and withthe other flear from that nimitz attack, and then it glines up with them sayingthat they were flashing and just as another piece of the pie for peoplelike move on to put together and try to come up with, like a threed battlefieldof what actually happened and that's the real challenge, because the video he released almost pictureddebt is like okay, he turned out the video to beginwith a trans, medium ob or i mean the the night vision. Then he had the trans medium object.Then he had the radar data and i could picture him waiting for the report tocome out and say: okay, if you come out completely shoot everything down, i'mgoing to drop this one on you too. I here's another video and i've got more,probably in the background, so he keeps supporting the thing of theomaha o there in multiple ways, which is good but you're right, creating the pitcherto thred model of everything. This is where you'd really need, likeall the satellite data. From all the ships to be able to plot out theirmovements over like a three day period, you'd want to add, on top o, that, likea layer of like air craft that were moving around because i've seendifferent ones say, oh, maybe they saw a different aircraft, maybe helicoptersfrom sooty islands, where you need that date,a layer on top of it and almost and really be able to like peel stuff awayand put it back on. So you can. I see it and take it away to really visualizeeverything. It may be hard to get some of that, because some of that i'm sureis going to classified even just how the navy, movies and formation or howmany planes i have out there who knows right. They you're right, are going tobe difficult, there's so much going on in that reach knocker, because you notonly have our navy out there, but they're also flyingplanes from up around oxnard. One of the base isgoing up round. Mirmir, oh yeah, flying them down in here, and it's not justour fighters are flying foreign flier fighters down here to test out theoperations i just had an article by hes and that retired pilot, as i think hisname is matt graves aryan graves he's, one of the the up wines is, and he said,and this article came out this month. He said he talked to someone that is inthe school now that they're still seeing them as of june two thousand andtwenty one. I can believe that ryan graves is the one who was in thesquadron on are at actually the second, a third video that came out.The video called the gimble and a wold go fast, we're takingby his squadron. Okay, the the first video of the one that was called the non gimble. That was actually the onetaken a with david david fraver squadron, often limits, so that was only one video off the westcoast and two of them off the east coast. But that's where they get confused.People get confused a lot on the videos. They think that they may all be off.West coast- or you know, i get a mix together, so i just want to sharesomething with you that the rick- and i were talking about- and you know if youread the report and kudos to the government for saying this-they say yeah. We have a lot of ufo stuff, but it could be witness by usbecause we're out there recording stuff all the time. So we have a bunch ofufos and maybe they show up everywhere, but i'm just tring to think. I've beenreading theories that the ufos are shown up in front of the military,doing highly sensitive stuff and then just just kind of floating there andsaying hey interact with us and now there's maybe radio frequenciesinvolved or they'll go shut down a new site and just sit there, like, i think,they're picking on the military to force them to communicate. Almost i don't know what theories you mighthave yeah they're trying to get more information out. I think they're reallytrying to gather more information,...

...because one of the things they mentioned reportis that stigma is still there within the military and that's why differentones don't want to talk because they're afraid that hey. If italk i'm going to into some base of alaska, i min paper worded yeah, exactly i'mnever going to be promoted, i'm going to really be crapped on, if not thrownout of the military or whatever. So there's still that stigma about nottalking and they're trying to believe break that to a degree now i thinkthey're still going to be biased inside by different ones, because if you'veprobably got to see certain, maybe senior military personal been there foryears, they still may be under depth, bias andsays: note these things don't exist, there's nothing like that and they could petenti still affectsome of these people's careers. Now i think they're trying to breakdown that stigma. What happens if the government deems these being a threat,then? Can they say that you know guys are not allowed to talk about thisoutside of the military and just shut it all down? Well, that goes back towhen we're talking about collecting the data of what gets basically redactedwhat gets taken out, because it could be very easy for them to say that someof this stuff is national security. We can't tell you that, for whateverreason, we're tracking these objects, but yetwe don't want you to have information when it out there in public, because hegoes up in public. They know what we know. One of the things that drives me, thatis, there's a website, called a drive which tedo a great job on reporting andthey get into military, but sometimes it's almost like. Arethey telling too much? I mean if i a foreign power. I may bewatching this website lot, just to see what they're putting out there for methat i don't really have to work to get. You know, there's no doubt and if anyof the nations that are not involved in this, if any, i'm not saying that anynations on earth created these things, but if they did the ones that didn'tcreate it are watching as closely as the rest of us are tryin to figure outwhat this is and what they really learn from about our military. At about whatthese things are and you're correct, because that'sanother good way to do what you track, what the other countries doing, whatthey're putting out their media when t e the cia letters came out about ufos. Actually a number of yearsago, we were tracking a lot of stuff in, like england and other countries to seewhat was being put out about ufos in those countries and they're just kindof looking again to say. Okay, i wore these reports coming out to give some sort of indication. It maybenefit us of what these things are. You're running almost like a counterintelligence operation to see what yeah well, how the russi world was reactingto the news and what they were puting out. The sius come in, that's it andi've always wondered part of me if this was a sip ether for the benefit ofchina, like the united states government, showing that they hadsomething which it's still really hard to fathom that we would have somethingcould do some of these things. But if we were putting out for the benefit ofother countries to it's kind of a warning or if it's some kind of side upto the government's going to run on the rest of us, it's just so hard to know you're right and that's where a bigchallenge is separated, because some things in may be putting reportslike this one. And it may not necessarily be the one that we'reseeing the public one. But what? If they put something? Maybe in the when it went to congress. That would be kind of disinformation.What if you planted some seeds in there that you're looking to see if somebodypicks up on yeah- and you know tom, like we're all having this conversation,because we all have an interest in ufos and what else could be out there butand you're someone? That knows a lot about this and knows way more than mybrother and i, but would it be easy enough for the government to have fakedall this? I mean i've heard that theory being floated around out there that itall just be c gi. If you said eve cross your mind. No,actually i've looked at that stuff because i'm the same i've seen all thisstuff on, let's say going back to like apolloprogram, potentially the mood landing being faked and yeah the face is on mars. I mean i look atall that stuff from a curiosity point of view, and- and i go back on some ofthe stuff and actually do my own analysis on the photos and so forth, tosee what i can come up with and when he gets to the point of, let's say: puthim all these videos out his disinformation. I don't see all of it like when you look at this report,they're saying a lot of stuff, uapes they're, looking the fact thatthey may be a drone of some sort, but when i look att that whole event fromtwo thousand and four to two thousand...

...nineteen, the favor encounter is the biggest oneto me that they're going to have a problem with here. You've got witnesses citing themfrom two different viewpoints. They most likely have to read our databehind it at some some location that one's a real challenge when it comes down to the droneactivity, the videos from the nimis from the deck and you seeing objectsflying around something like that could bepotentially hoaxed fake. But then you get the right art screensand the big questions when you startedseeing all this stuff is who provided this information, becauseyou'd like to hear witness testimony to support the videos and so forth, werethey originated from who took him? What times did i like you're saying earlier,put the ted picture together and if this whole three, the picturesget the come, starts coming together and really good. It makes it moredifficult to kind of oaks this stuff, and if you follow the kind of time lineof the current events, it's that basically pilots were getting pissed,that their superiors were laughing the stuff off, so they started leaking. Sure i mean when you're doing, i think is a grave said that whenyou're flying out there and an object goes between two jets yeah, that makesit look like the jets are just standing still. The report says the ua ptf haseleven reports of documented instants in which pilots repear piles reportednear misses with the up so eleven times at least where they almost crashed. That's right, they could have been amajor instant. All you had to do is suck something up in an engine and theycould have gone down real easy. The question i have is: where werethose near misses that i wish i knew where they, i don't know they had oneoff off the coast of virginia yeah? Well, if you, if you read- and it's notlike you- have all the ryan graves reports him and someone else, it's notlike it was right in between them and they had like go off. Sorry fonte mikegot to go off in it, either direction now as virginia beach and it's hard to say exactly how farthey were apart, but a number of times when they've seenyou seen flying in formation, ter their clothes yeah, it's like completelyunderstand how they mave to veer off. If something went between them on he'vebeen to an air show, you can see, they are almost wing, the wings, a yeah,it's crazy of plus they get in and they say these, the tick tack or cigarshapes or whatever you want to call them about the size of school buses.Basically, so like right, i mean that's a that's a big little thing and it'snot a radar bliff. If it's making you freak out, probably i'm there seeingsomething, no, and even when they said that the oneobject one object was identified out of the whole report, forty four yeah, andthey said it was a defilade balloon. Well, first of all, where is thedeflating balloon? Whose deflating balloon was it? Was itours right? Was it somebody else's off the west coast camile as on well,google has taken blues, go along the coast, i was looking earlier and there wasactually a balloon over to. Was it wasn't cancer, maybe he's up byarizona more flying around that region? You said google does, that is that partof, like their google earth or something well, google had a programcalled loon that suppose it was done away with, and these balloons are large andthey've normally gope about sixty thousand feet, sixty five thousand feet and what they do as they change theiraltitude up and down, and by change her attitude, they hadhit different wind currents and they can really be relativelymanifera on where they want to go. So they had some within the last couple of years, goingdown to the west coast along that region and the whole purposebehind him is the loom project was to create, like internet access, opatickind of like what you know on musis doing with starling exactly it. Theonly difference is he put up they with some google bloom balloons down aroundlike venizel. I think they had him over in puertorico after the hurricanes, because i mean so much stuff was taken down. So you want to get communicationsbackup, that's pretty cool, actually yeah, so that i mean that's, that's onething, but then we've also done our own stuff of balloons, to, like you say, spine, oh yeah, on othercountries putting equipment up to certain albutus, especially van as well,like hey vans. Why do you want a google balloon? That's not a spy right of your oil field, but yeah yeah, but othe lines, though, and they show these...

...things on radar going up. Eightythousand feet in the air and basically leaving the atmosphere like loons, are doing that and comingback down, and you know yeah. No, it's just it's coolthat they figured out what one of them was and found an explanation, but theother ones. They said we might need signs to advance like another centurybefore we can figure out what these things are. So there has to be a fixedrate for the altitude that a balloon could reach anyway, i would imagineright: yeah, there's got a yeah. There's got to be a rate that they goup and also, i don't know how they're to be picked tracked on raiders thatwell, but you've got a balloon of a certain size and i don't know how wellit picks up. You know the the balloon itself on radar as far as size, wise, but you're tracking, that object and weeverything don't we and we check everything. Well, the limitation of theradar, though, when you look at flight flight chart, they mentioned in thereto the in the military operation areas theytrack things from like sea level. Eighty thousand feet because that's pretty much what theirradar systems are designed to track that a range zero to basically eight.Eighty thousand eight sand. That's way high right, themost commercial aircraft isn't up there. It's like thirty zand for commercial.You got like an. You may have business chess going to maybe like forty fortyfive sand, the outo, which is one of our higherflying planes. This goes back in one thousand. Nine ed is technology. Itgoes up the in sixty five thousand feet and once you get that high there's amajor problem of getting lift under the wings that has a speed. It has to travel atonce. It's there that if it varies from this speed, likeso many miles an ower, and it's not like a hundred miles now, it's onlyit's a very, very tiny range. If it varies one way, the other too much, itactually falls right out, o guy installs, oh wow, and that's what thisthe flighter just for saying, is so amazing about these ufos. They keep seeing because they seethem sitting there against the wind just hang in, and they said for them todo that. They'd have to be almost completely nose up and you're stillfalling, but you're falling at like fifty miles an hour yeah and thisthing's just sitting there, and it has no like helicopter propeller, novisible thrust, no heat signature. So i definitely weird and the only thing wehave to con vasily hover there to a degree is a balloon type object and the challenge that is going to be,as is not going to go from basically a zero to a thousand miles an hour.That's not going to happen no yeah and and these things they see them, leavingour atmosphere. You know coming back in, and i know that, like we have the us atleast the us air space is covered by satellite with regards to things goingin and out, and so it leads me to believe and thenalong the same lines, they say the day that this night page report came out, ocongress or whoever got the sea to report, and they saw like seventeen newvideos as the rumor and all this stuff. Like we've known the government, i think iswell aware of the o o thing way more than they're pretending, their deaf onethousand nine hundred and forty seven at least yeah yeah they're aware, butnow the reporting process. I think that fell apart the documenting and so forth,because i can see that a certain reports came in well, let's see we're trackingsomething here on the radar ser, it's going four thousand miles an hour. Wedon't have a plane to goes that fast. I forget about it's, probably read artlitch. I could see that happening to a degree exactly for i'm not going to report that becausepeople are going to think i'm nuts, so i'll just shut up. So i can see, is stuff overlook likethat, but that going back that standardizedreporting process that i think is a mandatory. They have to have, if they're, really looking at thesubject seriously, when there's something too called a, i think it's fast walkers or something,but like the people that watch space they see, like things, finds ouratmosphere real fast all the time and more often than not, it is like a pieceof a medio rite or something a lot of times. The huge ones come in and theydisappear. The international space station has a camera that seems like itcuts out a lot when interesting things start to happen out there. Well, that's where the channel is fieldcomes in up, because now you have to start separating fact from fiction and then also how ittranslates over to the public. There is a video i reviewed not longago, of which i explained a lot of stuff inthe video and the person who's was working on the video. Well, whatabout this? What about this limit? Here's fast moves and when they saidthat term, i cringed, because i'm like ohyou've, been watching too much tv.

I don't like the categorize things likethat. Yes, if things are moving fast, that's one thing but be careful: theydon't start categorizing things. I got my n y ar it and i had to come back forthem. I said you know what there is a fast fast walker or fast mover release.What he used fast mover, that's called an insect, and i said you want me to show you aframe by frame where you can see the wings moving. Oh yeah, no, i agree withyou on video yeah and then i didn't get a whole lot of response. I said i cando a frame by frame trust me time. Some one appreciates a deep punker yeah andthe thing is is that's one of the problems it sometimes creates. Nowthere are anomalies that, yes, i definitely agree with out there thatyou are questionable. That's. Why i'd like this to really seegood analysis on this, because some may be explainable, so may not be, andthere's always that question: did they block out a cameraintentionally at a certain point to maybe you know eliminate somethingfrom being cracked on the screen, and i think that the answer is probably is atleast some. It is it's very likely yes, but then it's also the system that, in a sense that you know we createdthat conspiracy type thing to look for something like that automatically. Well,you know what it is once you start lying is really hard to start tellingthe truth without looking terrible for years, and so oh you're, exactly right, i mean i'm a senior group and is whensomebody looks at me and says i geta say we know what the govern governmentever do any cover. Ups, i said. Oh, let's think about ancient orange andthe end of vietnam, and things like that. You know yeah stuff like thatwere overlooked or let's go to area fifty one and people dying of likecancerous types diseases and then clinton put out a thing that hopes these people can't talk about whatyou're exposed to what the round anything else, because it's nationalsecurity yeah i mean, i don't trust the government,no matter who was in power years and years and years of them pulling thewool over our eyes or lying to us when it was convenient and only tell us thetruth. When i got caught out yeah i mean there's very recent and i prettymuch like listen to dr fouche to this day still, but like i don't like that,they like to us about the masks early on, i get why they did it and that'snot what we're here to talk about, but, like the government lies all the timefor sure and they yeah they tell the truth when they get caught, but a exactly tom. Did you ever think thatyou would get to this point in your career, where the government would beacknowledging these ufos? I mean five years ago. Did you think that this whathappened in your lifetime? Oh no, i mean to be as open as they are now. Inever saw that coming again, i'm on the skeptical side. Icould see them withholding information that they had it for who knows how long that's why i think it's such a such a you know pleasant, feeling, thehay, the art coming out at least now saying we have stuff that we cannotexplain. We have pilots, saying that we have other military personnel sayingthat i got one more question and i justwondering with all your your kind of connections and stuff out there haveyou heard anything about the full report, the seventy two pages and maybemore videos, and all that no having everything about the fullreport. You t to kind of keep my ear out there, just listening the full report and that the same withany other videos that may be out there kind of floating around. I'm nothearing that sometimes i'll hear like a lot of people. Do the secondhand, stories from people who were potentially in the mirmilitary at times were people who were in the military times some of the stories that they relate orsome of the stories that their friends are told by being involved in some ofthese situations. Those i hear, i'm always keeping my my ear out for those.But again the thing that i also see is the number the ones who were in the military still respect thejob that they did yeah and the o, and they still feel that responsibility.I'd love to tell you about this, but even though i'm not bound by anagreement, lissy of any sort, i still feel a responsibility to maintain. Let's say that that's tayte us onsecurity or whatever certain my knowledge on certain things. Yes- and ido have to respect that yeah, the people that take the oath, the men andwomen that take that oath- they mean him when they when they swear and theythey don't do anything to disrespect that. So we can respect that toothoughi. Sometimes we wish that we...

...could know more in also more pouch. Thewhistle blowers like like luezen do none of this none of his change that ithink he kind of helped start would have happened if he hadn't rent thatresignation letter, because within the chain of command he didn't feel like hecould be a whistle lower. But that's why people like him to do stuff likethat yeah you got the stuff like from alezan do, and it was all a really big,like a snowball with everything chris mellon. The way it sounded, he kind oflike passed a dvd with some of the videos on to the parking lot stuff,like that. That's tita's cool, like de trot, stuff yeah, that's that's what i heard is. Hewas doing an interview the one day and he says guy had a dvd and he says achange hands in a parking one wow i but that's true. I make the thefamous to tech. Video, they say was actually online since, like twothousand and eight or something unlike some random message, board form the guyleaked it yeah, and everyone said it was fake that all the debunkersimmediately debunked it yeah, because the guy that owned the hosting companywas like a computer, graphics firm. It just shows you how much we think we know everyone, i think,thinks they're more of an expert in any subject matter than they actually areyeah. If you never believe in anything, you're, never wrong. You look smart yeah, and i run that all the time outthere different ones that that's want to act like they know everything aboutus m. Then me i rather set back and listen alot of times, i'm handy dumb. He hear what people tell me to kind of like goback and filter it go back and look at it from a scepticalpoint of view. Are they telling me? Is that accurate? Is it possible because i've been in groups wheredifferent ones were the military talked about some of their experiences, and i want to look at a couple. Peoplestraight out and say: have you been on crack half your life? Are you seriousof some of the stuff that you're trying to get me to believe you may be getthis schmuck over here to believe everything you're telling me, butseriously. You want me to believe that what you let me group, you know youwere telling us when we talk to you before that you left another ufosociety or investigator society, because they wanted to go on thefanciful side of things and that more of a evident space, guy, you're right and because the groupitself i mean, was a clevis project. A great group they were found in back inthe s has had a lot of great individuals with them over the group. There's, unfortunately, a number to a lot ofhistory behind the group is going up what they where they started from whatthey did. But the kind of give you an idea aboutsome of the stuff they were involved with is back and it had to be like the early s sometime during sers, dad a director byname of george neff, who did a great job very active in the subject. I'm sorry, earl, math roll miss goblank there for a second there ol net and i was going through archivalmaterial of mine and there was an investigator in theakron agree named george papa, which who was researching a case of a america,i think, is american airlines plane which had an encountered with a ufoaround the cleveland region. So he told ask girl, he says: can you go out andtalk to these pilots for him and earl actually went out to theairport track a pilot down and talk to him, even though there hasn't aboutdoing so? And you see these these letters goingback and forth hard copy letters and says don't mail, the stuff to me anymore,about you know this case because our males being intercepted and they thought their phone calls arebeing cracked. I mean that was clear back in like the s some time, you thinkthat they actually were being watched, it's very possible. I know some of thestuff i've been doing has been track, gossoon, it's kind of scary, but theydid a great group, a job, and i think at that history, where the group was atand all the cases i've got a lot of their investigations from like the sand s to hard coffees, a lot of great research there. But now- and i thinkparfit goes back to the changing climate of ufos to paranormal everything else. Nowthey were leaning more towards the interesting stories yeah which which okay you know. If youwant to talk about them, fine, but that doesn't mean i'm going to be agreeablewith them. You know and the way i look at it. I msorry, i'm kind talking over you, that's right, the new age movement whenit got into the ufology and they kind of merged it didn't do anything for thescience of all became about experience and some kind of transcientialencounters yeah i mean they got into...

...things like. I even helped a person puttogether a presentation on underground tunnels, secret bases underground across the country, in one of the things that they werethey wanted to put in. There was all these tunnels going clear across theunited states underground, there's tunnels going from las vegas to like los angeles underground. Is thateven feasible? Well, i helped him put the stuff together to stuff that theyprovided to be in a format, and i said well, first of all, wheredid you get this stuff off youtube and the video they gave to me showed atruck going into a tunnel and they're talking to the driver, ghost yeah? Hesays these tunnels go back, and here he says man. I forget how many hundredmiles i got drive under ground in me. Doing this he says yeah, they run aclear across the country and he's doing his whole story and the tunnel was actually theentrance to the one. It's a storage facility likedown in missouri you where they've got these undergroundtunnels that they use for story, storing everything like there's a company like ironmountain who stories documents, yes and that's what you're looking at and itwas just a whole bs made up story. I mean i'm sure, there's secretivetunnels that are actually part of the government's infrastructure, but ialmost got across the country. The tailings would be the size of mounteverest. If not bicker. You know i mean the from pulling that dirt out. It'ssay i am coming around to the whole. They live under the oceans thing withthe aliens yeah i mean they're so unexplored, and the fact that we'rekind of getting down there more in favor he talked about the water roilingand, seeing like a giant cross, shape kind of you pho down there and some ithink detroit dietrich the female pilot. So she saw that and then there's another story where they talkabout they would they would test like thesemissiles out there in the navy and like shoot them out yeah and then crash inthe water and they'd? Have the frog men jump off the ship, you know, go, getthem and at one point they're going down to recover of this cruise nes sothat they were testing and a circular shape, like almost the size of like anisland. They said, came out of the deep sea and pulled the missale away fromthem and they just got the hell out of the way i would get the hell out ofthere too. That was that story came from one of favors buddies. I mean hesaid his buddy was, i think it. His buddy was in the marines because yougot the navy and the emrine still ofering off the same ships. Yes and hisbuddy was off the coast of virginia in had happened, and he said there was one instant where they were recovering like a torpedothat was launch rom, a sub or a ship. They were recovering it and the divergoes down and he's looking on. This object comes up from below and they hooked on and they raised thetorpedo to recover it, but they saw this huge black mass under the water.He said it wasn't is up, he says in the thing, then go dropsdown and disappears, but they said like a month or twomonths later. That's when the second incident happened, that they are doing.Another recovery, like you, said, of something like a missile. Any objectscoming up in the pilot screaming screaming throughthe intercom at the recovery guy hate, hey, hey, hey, something's, coming upfrom down below and they went in retracted. The diver pulled him back up and that'swhen they saw that that torpeo basely being sucked down or the missile beingstuffed under water and they lost it at o. That story a blue fraver away and when you think about it, like idon't know like on paper, how fast they tell usthat our fastest, like nuclear stuff, can go it's not fast. They go like nofifty miles now or something like that and there's no visibility down underwater and we can stay under for like a couple hours like at the marianastrench or whatever, but mary as transes. That's like mount everest everyone'sdoves. You can go yeah yeah, but that's not where anything's happening like andit's dark and it's silty like there could be anything down there, there's so much of the ocean. It'sunexplored think of one just something simple: when they were looking for the airliner off of yeah be lost off of india yeah i fiftyor whatever it was years ago. How many ships were looking for that thing andthey found nothing, but they admitted how much of the ocean out there. Theyhad no real knowledge of, and so in that other they've ever found it havethey. No, they found things that they believe were from it. They havefragments a as lain yeah, then do you throw into it going to thearchic you throw in those regions which ofyeah we have a subs up there. We have...

...different things going on, but how muchthat ere is still unexplored yeah. The arctic is an interesting one, because if that don't let you exportnow, oh yeah, there's a crazy story's, alwaysgoing back to admiral bird and stuff like that and different areas being black bout. If wes get into the conspiracy side little it again, you know, and the things likethat- which i don't have a research a whole lot of or you've got to report at nazi basesin the arctic yeah a sister base of the nazi moon base.It's going to be interesting, though, like so just you know. Imagine fiveyears from now we have the overton windows already shifted so much right.So imagine, ships even more i's, like okay yeah us has ufos, like all thecrazy nazi stories and all this sudden. That would be the same time period likeroswell, is forty, seven right, so they were visiting them. They re visitingearlier, and i mean at the end of the world war two. There are supposedly things thatdisappeared from germany and went to down the south america region, yeahsure and the war's operation paper clip where we, you know, definitelybenefited as far as the space program goes with nazi. What do you call them rocket scientist?I don't know where they gone: aron, yeah, yeah, bon bran and different oneson here i mean that we definitely benefited from, but the question ialways have behind that is, i don't think you're seeing thedifference in technology from what they had. What we're seeing now you're absolutelyright. I mean we had scientists that had that stuff on paper, maybe not goneas far with some of the test programs and stuff that they did, but it wasn'tradically different like wither. What we're discussing with these uapes isradically different from anything that any nation think we know puts in thesky. That's it because one of the things i always wanted to dois a video on the german technology, because there's some interesting pointsthey bring up that there's some other stuff. That's like total crap. They say well, you know, look at thegermans with both the flying wing and the stealth technology they had goingon and stuff, but we had a guy called north or doing the same thing at thesame time, yeah you're right, the flying wing. You see it as it isnow, but he was in to flying technology in thu s in their rocket program. Wehad scientists at universities in the us that were experimenting with rocket.Try to that wasn't very different. I mean we learned a lot from theirexperience when we made that deal with the devil and brought these guys over,but isn't that almost more evidence for these ufos or ups being off world,because even with the us and the manhattan project, and everything likethat, like russia, had just started messing withatomic energy like it had just shown up, you know like people knew about it, andthis thing, like, i think now we're thinking. Maybe they somehow have agravity propulsion drive, but no one is even close to messing with that. No, ido. I don't think it's when you get into like the anti gravity drives, etc.I don't think that's a trestraou at least terrestrials. We know it put itthat way. Yeah from earth is we nolit. It could belike a mentioned earlier, going back to some having an origin we're just notcompletely aware of yet there may be something out there. We don't knowabout. Well, let's be real as far as asian say so we know now, china, us s ror russia. Excuse me, the united states, south korea, japan these countries have been experimentingopenly with anything close to this. Having hinted in any way of havinganything close to this usa is the only only one i would believe yeah. We, whenyou look at let's say, for example, the focusingright now on the objects moving at tremendously high speed the objectsmaking the extreme rapid turns that the speeds it's have been claimed and thatcreating sonic booms by the way yeah yeah. When you look at those singularlyright now, i don't believe that there's any powerthat we know of in the world that has the capability of the engineering anobject, they can withstand the g forces and so forth involved with like yeah, imean it doesn't even exist. Theoretically, on pay for reallyanywhere that's been published. No, you got to have either a knowledge on howto basically devoid you know those te forces like when you have the transmediaobject, something go from the here to under water and maintain speed. You'vegot to have something that can...

...overwrite that yeah you're, right andand let alone not get ripped apart by going from entering the atmospheregoing through our atmosphere entering the water, maintaining the integrity ofthe hall may that your nominal you're right, i t- i don't see ushaving the technology and it kind of getting the german thingagain. Anybody who suggested well, you know they had german technology.Germany were flying ufos. I don't believe that they would have won worldwar two if they had a well e beginning with, if the individuals reallyresearch that some of their jets that were flying were made out of wood, the jet that they brought over andrecovered at the very end, was wood plain really it was. It wasmade out of what did it perform any better than the hostile get there performed very well. You know wecould do a nazi podcast and i love it because what screwed up the germans washis supply lines were so crazy. He thought he could just be in russia inthe winter. All the time send all supplies there, while genocide, a wholeethnicity for no good military reason or any reason like there's no way t upand then over engineering, all the mechanics of the tanks and the planeyou we wako of his brain. He just assembly line them and just to clarifythat when, when you looked at the plane, like the n, o o ded and sixty two,which is a german fighter, came out of the very end, hitler really screwedthat up and and put that plane behind on development. But there was an all metal plane.They've got the engine of one of those down at right, patterson and i looked at the engines and from amechanical point of view, its great engineering for that time frame. Well,they were were like mercedes engines or something or the junk they might have been junkers,or something like that. Younkers. Okay, because i know they were pretty goodright, yeah i've talked to engineers. That said, that is when you look atlike the united states, the mustangs we had so many different moving mill partsin it that things that go wrong and the german particularly like very few parts.It was beautiful engineering, but it took so long to make what the expand.That was the thing i mean the engineering behind that plane wasfantastic. The comet, which is another one of planes, actually had a rocket init. That thing was basically designed that if he saw a bomber coming, theywould launch her from the ground. It was designed to go up and basic. Try todo, one intercept, get one shot off and it would come downand it landed on skids that was an all metal plane, but thechemicals that they used for prepulse to time. They said if they mixed two ofthe chemicals together accidentally, the plane would explode. That's notgood for the violet, no and and they're flying wing design is the one which wasall wood at the very end is a rocket with a seat on it. Yeah it did thatwhen they were having they're working on the technology for the engines. Fromall my research, which is kind of improven, they basically had theconcept down they were working on, but at the end of the war, they're out ofresources, running out of resources and time, basically yeah, so that planenever really got off the ground. They did some a couple test versions, but again it was just like very earlystages but you're. Looking at an all wood flying wood covered flying wing. What you havethere is a country with lots of really talented engineers that got everythinggreen lit, but it wasn't extra trustall and it wasn't like how we were talkingabout thousands of years ahead of technology,that any other nation had a a time you're right and the one thing thatthey had the rumor out. There was oh, they had what was called the glock termed. Isthe bell ufo thing that you see polin yeah yeah? Do you all follow a thing,but you've got individual, saying yeah.They developed the bill here. It use like mercury, spendid, super highspeeds or something like that and again, and then they fall up and say yeah andat the end of the war there is one transport plane that was a super largetransport plane that took it to south america. They think, i'm sure, that's real, i'm sure that'sreal, i'm sure, i'm sure there's some guy in, like you know, n s, usa, that figured outlike elettra magnetic had of make something hover for like twenty minutesor whatever two minutes even and i sure we've been tinker with that since then,but it's obviously not good enough for prime time yeah, it's they may havetheories down ideas behind stuff, but the thing is that they reallydevelopment to the level that the different ones were claiming they'd befine in them. Yeah we be going commercial and yeah other ships. I andone of my buddies sent me a picture of...

...one of the german ufos. Well look at this. Look atthis here's a hus picture. He said: what's the origin of the picture, i said i could probably argue it's.It's not cg prec right, that's like when stan remove people from hispictures yeah, and it also doesn't mean that it wasn't a real prototype thatnever went anywhere either yeah, i'm sure you could figure out how to wireup some batteries and a magnate and make yourself float inefficiently fortwenty minutes or something gossome. You've seen videos from i've seenvideos from like the military in like the forties with the guy, so we wentdown a big rabbit hole, but one of the things that i wanted to ask you tom b s:where do you think we're going to be five years from now? As far asdisclosure were, with this conversation, wili sound like five years from now, five years from now, here's the big fitdepends on what direction you're really coing. If they go in the directionwhere they establish a standardized system, they put a standardized system acrossthe board and reporting of all branches of the government. That's involved,they get the structure to it. They get a true team, that's looking at this for me, a good objective point of view. Let'slook at this and yes, you're going to be skeptical, butin the other hand, you're also going to be not debunking everything you look at in that light, and they sayhey. We have to look at this from a national offense point of view also have to look at it from the factthat can we recover something that you know if they do that in five years, i think you may be amazed at how manyencounters that they start putting in some of the reports. I really do. Ithink you may see a big increase in that now. At the end of the day, though, ofthat increase, how made him were the david fravers it may be, like with cases wereinvolved with a lofin. You may have a handful of them ud. You think that other nations aregoing to start doing this too, with their military other nations claim to, but sometimes when you watch the shows, ilove to read between the lines too. They were mentioning one of thecountries the other day or some place like chile or somewhere, like that. Ohwe've got this great program set up in anyone, you're really listening on howmuch well we got in like sixty cases this year and i make sixty cases. I get that intwo months for sure you know and that's just a hile- that's not even the unitedstates. So it's like. That's not many. You know,and what are you really doing with him? Sometimes like concern is when you get they come in from other countries? Arethey really looking at the things like a mention from a little of a skepticalpoint of view? Well, liris their culture more to really get excited andstart promoting the stuff? What about other major western powers like the uk,germany, australia, these countries? Now i know australia is a pretty active,uf reporting base from the citizenry when, if their military will start aprogram, i think they already are to a degree that you're right, though, from theprivate citizen point of view, they've had a good program going on for years down here, because i know some peoplein a like i've got some magazines in my archies ef, i'm correct. They go backto the s o s, all from australia yeah. I know they've been reporting kind ofsimilar. You know to the us for quite a long time and i'm not sure how they're going torespond. I can see, maybe uk being similar to us, possibly australia, may kind of bealong the same lines since the relationship between the countries, but when you get into some of the otherother countries, though that's hard to predict when you go into countries, france hasbeen very open about stuff, but the big question mark is: is everyone is going to have their ownagenda and it's really hard to predict whatthey're going to be doing? I can see you know the different ones trackingthings like. I can really see china and russia tracking what the us is doing.Oh yeah, for sure i don't see china disclosing anything or encouraging anyone. To ask questions, though i don't think no, china is going to discloseanything now. If anything, i can see disinformation coming out to a degree for promoting things. That may beunusual just to get attention, and i think we know realistically thatany any announcement that the or military makes they know that theiraudience is going to be countries like...

...china and potential adversaries to so ithink in as being filtered, and our government also knows thatyou're not only going to have the pro ufo people looking at but you're, goingto have the deep bunkers really looking at stuff and you're going to have them out therereally analyzing their reports. Yeah tearing a part and- and the good thingabout the united states is we're free to you know. We fire posting stuff out there on websites onyoutube. Different forms of media, like other countries, may be restrictedyeah. We can have these conversations together and raise whatever questionsor objections. We want and not worry about, someone knocking at her door.Hopefully you know sure i mean that to me is a greatadvantage, because if they do put something out, they know that thepublic is going to be looking at it and they're going to be analyzing it andthen there's going to be media attention to this stuff. That's why it's it's great that thiswhole thing came out the way it did, because now you've got the majornetworks buying into it. Looking at it will they they put it on a month fromnow too much from now, that's hard to say, but it got their attention really,for you know in a more mass form than ithink what you've seen in years, it feels like there's definitely been ashift yeah, i mean huge it's night and day and i'm excited about where it'sgoing to go in the future, but you know next time, there's another big break inthis. I would like to be able to reach out to again- and we just we my brotherand i and our audience really appreciate hearing from you, like. Youhave insight and history in this that hardly anyone else out there does, andwe love talking to you yeah you just great guy to talk to. I really enjoy itand and i'm one of those guys that i used to get chewed out a lot when i would go into meetings at theuniversity and say, hey, remember back when this happened. Remember that wouldbring up the history of things that went on at the university one of itsthat's old days. Forget about that. That was yesterday. Well, we learn fromhistory and we learn from these events and that's why i mentioned earlier thatwe could look at all these new cases really analyze and maybe create asystem for artificial intelligence that you can go back and look at thesecases like the roswell's look at the rendal's forest from a different pointof view, looking at letting it analyze this these old cases- and you may finda number of correlations in these old cases that relate to what's going onnow. Yeah well minute says yeah and it says: hey guess what these things wesaw in two thousand nineteen eight. They were here, one thousand ninehundred and forty seven. You know that's what blows my mind and theylooked the exact same like we're saying earlier there, this tick tax cigardoesn't matter what you call. It's been showin up, yeah pretty much it's thesame thing just now that they're admitted insteadof trying to say that it's wanas or that you're crazy yeah. We sure doappreciate your time. Yeah no problem. I know you got some other interviewsand articles to write. So thanks for joining us, we really patati have agood holiday any time. Just let me know- and you guys have a good holiday toguys thanks for joining us. I hope that you enjoy this episode. I want to steeryou to our web page www in visible chips. Podcast i've included a lot oflinks, including links to thomas wortmann's, own podcastcalled euphotic, which is a fantastic podcast that covers all different typesof ufo sightings. We also have the official up report on our web page andsome links to move on and other resources, so go to www invisible shipspodcast to check that all out and until next time, ship mates, an invisibleships podcast out o his shabe re produced any way withoutthe mission i invisible ships productions and i see next time shemeans a.

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