Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode · 10 months ago

Look AT That UAP Report!

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Good news America! A group of elected officials succeeded in doing something useful for a change and we are finally going to get to the bottom of the UFO phenomena. 

Ok maybe not, but that is what we were hoping for. What we got instead was a 9 page summary of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) that the Pentagon has been quietly studying. 

Tonight we are joined by Ohio MUFON Director, Thomas Wertman, a man who has spent decades studying and investigating UFOs and other encounters with unidentified aircraft. We will go through the report with him and get his reaction. Your gonna wanna hear what he has to say.


 

On tonight's episode of the invisible ships podcast, it's all about the dods report on you apes, which is a very confusing way of saying that the government has something they want to tell us about ufos. Any time before two thousand and twenty, I'm sure none of us could have imagined that the government would be telling us anything at all about Ufos, but then you couldn't have imagined that the government was going to pay you to stay at home and not work either. Anyway, we got what we always wanted right that government is actually confirming that there is something going on above our heads that none of us can explain. So why are people still disappointed? You know there's some people out there there were really hoping that there would be some kind of mentioned of aliens or some kind of release, that we are already in contact with them, that maybe we got a moon base or something with aliens. But that wasn't what this report was going to be about. The report was always going to be about what the military had been tracking in and what their explanation of what they're seeing was. And basically they're saying that they have no idea what we're up against, that it's not something that we created and that were pretty sure that it's not coming from any other country. Well, to help us unpack this and go through the report, we've invited Thomas Wartman. He's the director of the mutual UFO network here in Ohio. For those who don't know, moufon is one of the largest, I think the largest, and one of the oldest civilian groups that investigate will fhoe reports and they've been around for a long time and they do a very good job. They are not easily fool they don't come in trying to confirm that everything that people see are ufos. In fact, they kind of do the opposite. They're not skeptics, but they take a very disciplined approach. And just real quick before we get started, just for our listeners, I don't I don't know the exact details, but I do know that you either had a call right before this or you have a call right after this and you're at an end demand guy right now. So we really do appreciate you taking the time tonight, for sure. That's right. Well, it's it's been a little bit crazy. I'm doing some newspaper interviews and because right now, awake, I look at it it's like ufos or two sexy story, right, yeah, hot blond of news. Yeah, exactly, mean the ghost cutters in the paranormals minute for some time, you know. Yeah, take a seat your big foot. That's right. Well, I mean, like you know, your feel to study. There's actually tangible evidence that we all kind of knew was out there for a long time, but now the government, who used to say we're crazy, is saying that yeah, it's for real. What are your first impressions, I guess, of the preliminary assessment, the nine pages that they gave us? Well, actually, look at this way, if you go back and really count it, and I'm looking at it from an education point of view, like being a being in the classroom fears as an educator, the first first page is a cover page. So we throw that out, you know. The the next page actually is about a partial page. Let's go. It's kind of giving the scope of what's going to be going on to the report. Okay, this is what we're going to be talking about. Some like let's almost throw that out too. Let's see the the final page says, okay, this is the topics we wanted to cover. So really, when you get down to it, you're really about five and a half pages of full report. Well, that page three is important because they say, give us some money so we can study more that. That's exactly it. So you're grading what they did and probably what see or lower. Well, on the third page. Yeah, they that's that's basically if we're it really get starts getting into the meat, is on the third page. And what I did is will be crazy, as I went back to the final page when I started reading it. In matter of fact, I forgot to mention to that one of the pages said, okay, U AP, is this an APE report? Is this? Yes, it's like, Oh, come on, you know is a word count they had to fill exactly. That's why I was thinking of is I had a thousand words and nine pages to write. So, let's face it out, I've done that. Yeah, but in reality, when I look at it, I was disappointed in one fact that you know, it's very, very brief. It's very superficial, which I didn't expect much depth. That was where most my disappointed, what was at. But in reality it's actually what I expected from the report. And when I looked at the report, to me it told me a number of things. To begin with, they're saying one of the biggest problems that they had was getting data. Now, a lot of guys I know or ufo researchers going back in S. I mean these guys are hardcore. They've got mammoth libraries and a number more willing to offer, you know,...

...basic like terabytes of information, which is greatly appreciated. There's so much historical stuff there. But from a realistic point of view, they said in December they wanted this report do in June. So you've got six months. So you're only going to be able to look at a limited data set and within that, to me, you're going to want to get the most recent data. Because why all these reports, of main reports has got the media's attention, have been focusing on the recent stuff, primarily from two thousand and four, dealing with the mimics and counter so they're going to be focusing on that because one day have to answer to Congress. What is Congress interested in? Most of them are not looking at Roswell and all these old cases. They're looking at stuff that's happening here and now with our military. They're looking at also for a national defense point of view, which is completely understandable. So they focused primarily on this newer information. I'm glad you said that because I've heard, you know, some UFO podcast other ones that I listened to, and they're mad that they're ignoring a history or trying to restart history. And I don't think we should ignore history because it's super important. But you know, if you read the report, they say we're looking at firsthand by military aviators that were collected from systems we considered to be reliable. They can only go on the things that they know and I think going forward and get begetting a lot more reports on them now that they because it's like two thousand and nineteen. The navy put the reporting kind of checklist in place in twenty s when the Air Force got on board, so it's kind of early days. Yeah, absolutely, and I've got, and I'm glad you mentioned number. The other ones aren't really looking at it that way. They're looking from historical point. I believe me, I look at history too, because I've got half a garage full of archival material. Yes, you told me about from the from the floor to the rafters of great research material. But I've got more logic behind why I say that, and I don't know if they're looking at this side or not. When we look at all this, these newer cases, starting from like the Mimis, yes, you've got pilot information and it's covering one of the things that they had in report and the report they were mentioning that they wanted certain type of sensor data analyzed. Well, in the old reports, to begin with, what you have is a lot of information and being passed on by word of mouth, either direct interviews with witnesses, secondhand information coming from witnesses, which is older information, and the problem is you're going to have to be filtering that out to find out what is factual and what may not be factual, because you know that when a story is being retold over and over again, different individuals may forget stuff, different individuals may add stuff and they put your own take on it, so that data and they really be, you know, kind of like mixed up at that point. That's a problem. But when you go to these recent cases, they're getting stuff firsthand, like you said, directly from their own military personnel right while they're getting it from the people themselves directly, and they even had a comment in there about that. They said that these individuals involved with some of these instances we're never talked to, either formally or informally, by government personnel. So that's another issue we can look at later, but you've got the talk coming in from the pilots, their descriptions. Secondly, something that you don't have a lot of archival material. You don't necessarily have radar data for everything. Right, they can pull radar data, which falls into totally different category of sensor data. They can go back and say, okay, let's let's pull all the rated regard data from not just one ship in that region but all the ships in this region for comparison. They can look for any radio signals. I mean these ships are manned with equipment. In some cases they were like spy ships, more or less right out there correct listening and collecting information. So think about how many eyewitnesses because like the NIMITS, those observed by like to other ships and they're all looking the same radar screen because I can share it and stuff. So you know, hundreds of people viewing these things. And you're right, and that's all that you heard about. But when you have tom it's out there there's a whole task force there. It's not just a minute student two ships. You're going to have destroyers, you're going to have the latoral class ships, is what us, as Olmohall was ships like that may have also been the region that never showed up any reports, and that's instance one that they mentioned the most, and that's how I you know, it's this is not China Russia flash in their drones at and lights at these ships out there in the Pacific Ocean like we...

...would shoot them down. Like to me that's I don't know, that's just me that. I don't know much about the don't Ay, but it seems to me if you're Russia, you're not going to zip over and flash of light and try to freak out the navy. It's well see off of Virginia beach or San Diego, right. You know that? Right? Pretty sensitive. Yeah, there's certain areas that the are going to be questioned, but there's even limitations about that. If they're within the twelve mile limit, that's one thing. If they're outside the twelve mile limit, that can be considered an act of or exactly it could be high so that so you could be coming up basically rubbing it in the US's eyes and hey, look what we can do and you can't do a thing about it. Yeah, that's it. Are outside a territorial waters. That's actually really good point, because and Russia does do that all the time out by their Black Sea and stuff like that, don't they? Like five Patas? They've had an incident off of one of the areas over there already. Yeah, that's really DIFFICA. Yeah, Russia's claiming is like a territory and that it's the US is saying, no, it's not your territory, but that's a whole nother yeah, Georgia, that's what it is exactly. Well, going back to the censor data, I mean you've got the radar, you've got they may be picking up they mentioned in the reporter Rs signals, that they weren't the script. Eve. WAS IT radio signals coming from this saying, or was it information coming from, let's say, something that was transmitting something back like there is it was being controlled remotely? Do you think they were communicating? Well, I don't know because it was so vague when he just said our FRF as radio frequency, and that can cover a lot of territory. So, I mean you've got two different sensor data there. Besides satellite imagery. You can be picking up things by satellite, not just by photographs, but you could be picking up in for red there's so many things in that area. So you've got really multiple categories that you could be looking at for potential, for lack of a better word, right now, trace evidence, evidence that this thing was there, besides the visual sightings of the pilots to cruise, etc. Now, so that's why they focused on the new material and I've even got a better argument for why they did if somebody's looking at the report long term, monitoring the stuff over long term basis. One of the biggest challenges with historical datas. Number One, you have to digitize everything. Number two, you have to filter out the good stuff from the bad stuff, which is a major, major challenge. And there's people that's tried to develop algorithms for data mining. Yeah, and they're just like scratching your head, like how do you really do that? But if you've got information coming in from similar radar system, similar type of data coming in there you've got the pilot reports, you have optical imagery and so forth on. There you can data mine that stuff probably much easier using artificial intelligence that's actually learned as we go. That's actually composed on the and the preliminary report. They say you want to use advanced algorithms to search historical data captured in story by radars, correct and flis to what you do from that point is you develop a system for artificial intelligence. You can screen out the stuff that you can eliminate as most likely related to aircraft or some other known phenomena, so you can really go after this unusual stuff or, you know, potentially things related to drones of an unknown, unknown source or things like that. You can go after those regions. Once you just start developing that program, you get a solid program established, then what you do is you start adding in the older historical information and you start looking for similar artifacts from the new stuff into the old stuff and you start collecting more of a history. But I think you've got to really develop that new system and it's kind of like the saying of throwing out the baby of the bath water, but you're starting from scratch and that may be the best way makes sense. It might be easier on the psyche of the public to say now these things started in two thousand and four, not that we had tick tacks in one thousand nine hundred and forty two or things flying over the White House. Well, the problem is is the big thing now is people are turning in reports, report after report, after a partner saying I saw a tick tack, I saw a tick tack. Well, until they mentioned that word, you didn't really see that used a lot. So now everything's comparing it to the tick tack one. We Singar Lights. Yeah, yeah, Sawcer more, yeah, more cigar shape. When you go back to the Phoenix s lights back in the S, people start seeing tons...

...of triangles. Yeah, and everything was just like the Phoenix slights. So one of the problems I have is now people compare it back to major instance and the thing is it, is it really the same as that instant or not? I'm sure that there's some amount of band wagoning or mass hysteria or whatever you want to call it. People copycats, but it's at least theoretical that would whoever's behind this technology could be changing also and as over the years go by, the shape's descriptions of the craft would naturally change. You think that is plausible? It's a very distinct possible possibility. Look at our own aircraft. If you go back about what, hundred, fifteen years, hundred, seventeen years, to the right brothers, you've got this two wing craft with our cake aeronautic capability. And now when you come up you look at some of our newer craft like the F F thirty five and so forth, the things of these vectored engines and so forth. Look at for that matter, look at spacex launching a rocket and landing it on the same path. Yes, that was that was only things in the movies in the s. Now it's reality. You would have to think that a alien culture, extraterrestrialslture or WHO's ever behind this, would also advance their technologies plus all. So there's another thing you could throw into it. Just throwing the extraterrestrial side, let's say that we do have visitors coming in from other worlds. Of what's to say that? Maybe there's different windows of opportunity for different groups to come here? Very good point. Hey, so they could be different races or species of extraterrestrials visiting a different times. Maybe the ones from the forty saw whatever they wanted to see. And they moved on. Who knows? That's right. I mean, look at when we do a launch for let's say Mars. We have a certain window that's a proper window to launcher rocket come on ours. So maybe they do a similar thing. And that's just looking at it from the point of let's say, what if it's an et coming here? What if ther et's behind us? When, when I look at the report they mentioned it, a hundred and forty four reports is what they analyzed, not a whole lot. And the first thing people say a hundred and forty four are I won't use their words, but are you kidding me? That's all. I mean, look how many reports people have, but again these are military related, primarily between two thousand and four in up to basically present, and these are military reports that actually conclude video taking from military craft and picked up on their radar sight. Eighty of them had multiple sensors, which is pretty exciting. I mean I believe I'm not taking anything away from the credibility of an eyewitness account, because I think a lot of them can be believed, but here you have like tangible evidence, and it's exactly what it is, is evidence. It's like what Tom was saying earlier. Even like I've heard, people are bummed out that this doesn't get into abductions or they'll know apostle like grays or whatever, but anything like that is subjective. Necessarily like that, there's no data to go along with it. So they couldn't, even if they wanted to get into that on this one. That's right. And when you're involved with paranormal, when you look at the reports coming from witnesses, when you've got reports of multiple witnesses, two, three, yarself, I mean you look at that, probably stronger in which you do just one individual. For sure the same here. You said you said the eighty reports involved multible censors. It's like to me multiple witnesses. Now, yeah, you've got it supported from other means. What is amazing about this, unlike other aspects of paranormal or anything unknown out there, is that like scientific instruments are recording this now, and I think to a lot of people out there that goes a long way because instruments more or less are non biased and not subject to a lot of the same mistakes that a human I could be mistaken something natural for something unnatural. It just to me I think that is it's pretty cool that we have actual top of the line instruments recording these. Oh, when you're right, unless you're one of the skeptics. Then the skeptics say it. Well, it could be possibly instrument error. Well, that's the other advantage by a lot of military equipment. Mean,...

...if you think how it's probably be being monitored, tracked and so forth on here, it's probably got a very high degree of accuracy. Oh yeah, I mean they're not buying cheap stuff, seeing the bills, and these are reviewed by radar experts, by Sun our expert video expert, like. It's not like it didn't occur to them that it could be a censer thing, and it's like the first sentence the report is we rolled out since they are. That's that's correct. And what they most likely also did they didn't mention, is in some of these cases they not only looked at, you know, the different branches of the military looking at the video, or not that shouldn't say video, but radar data. They probably went back to manufactured the equipment, the engineers could get their input to see if there's potentially flaws in a system that may have created these so they're looking at this whole thing from multible areas and that's another anything. Yeah, yeah, and when you see this eighty number again, eighty that I mean you're looking what fifty five to maybe sixty percent of the cases, off the top of my head, yeah, or more, have multiple data and if you go back and look at historical data and did a comparison, I'm sure it would even be close. Here's a good one for you. In eighteen incidents described in twenty one reports, the observers reported unusual, you AP, movement patterns or fly characteristics. They're talking about remaining stationary and wins aloft, move against the wind, maneuver abruptly move at considerable speed. I just think it's interesting for a guy like you that's been involved in this community for so long. This is what you guys have been researching and talking about since you know, the s and set s and stuff like that. Oh, without a doubt, because when I do reports and investigations myself, I got some in this morning where people took videos of objects moving across the sky. One of the things first things I do is actually pull up weather conditions and I look at the weather conditions outside to see what direction to wind is going in, what this ceiling height is a roughly calculate out. Then there what the cloud cover is. So if you see an object, is it below the cloud cover? And if a cloud covers this altitude and we know that the object must be below that cloud cover. Also, if you see the object moving with wind or were against the wind, can be a big factor. Yeah, the one and the one I had played that well, I had a video coming in team and to me to day. I reviewed and it was a great video. The witness actually did a very accurate report and you could see objects rising from the ground coming acrossed and it was roughly about forts and objects flying, not in unison but, and I don't want to say sequential, is almost like randomly released. Some were released in polly packs of two or three, other ones came out like with one and so forth. And they're moving across the sky and based on the geography in the photograph, I could track it on Google Earth and say, Hey, these things are coming from the South West and moving to the northeast. Yeah, I could roughly calculate out their speed based on how fast it they want to cross the frame, kind of like based on an angle of different points depending on how far they were away. So I could see that. Okay, if they're coming from the southwest going to the northeast, check the wind conditions and the wind conditions for the day of deciding were winds from the southwest at seven miles an hour. Now, when they say the Windsor from the South West, that means that's the direction to win is originating from, not not the directions actually ends up at. So it was going in the exact theme. These were going Zack same direction as to win. They were following by in Chinese imagings, right, that's exactly what they were. Always Chinese lantern, always Chinese landers in the thing is interesting. They were launched from, or they were actually seeing in, a relatively condensed area of housing and businesses. But the area that I saw him coming up in in the video, when I want on to Google Earth, there's actually a large playground right there that had ball fields and everything else, which had been perfect launching site. That sings. It's going to proof test your investigation skills, though. Oh it is. I mean that's why I look at it. Mean you're building your skills on instance like these. So when the bigger things come along, you're prepared for you've hone your techniques and the natural it's sorry, go ahead, I mean to cut you off. L's why I see some individuals not doing is they look at the case superficial and say, okay, it's got to be Chinese landers, based on the video boop and in. Move On. Okay, go back and just go through these different skill sets. I call them challenges to test, you...

...know, my knowledgeability. Okay, let's see where these things could potentially come from. Let's see if the math would work out based on the wind conditions. It okay, if they're actually moving at seven miles an hour, how long would take them to get from point eight to point b? See, you build your skills. It's say. It's super important, not even not only for the unreasonably skeptic, it for people like me who, like I, get excited at every video I see and then it's like, Oh yeah, that really was a balloon or the bouque effect or whatever. So it's good that we have people like you, unbiased, kind of cutting these up for us. I think that's what I respect about move on to is that you know they do. You guys do a great job of investigating and you're not so sold on anyone theory that you're if it's you can't explain it, you'll say you can't explain it, but if you can, you'll be honest with what the explanation was. But I was I've been wondering and I really wanted to ask you this because ever since this really started taking off I've been dying to talk to you. Did part of you. do you feel kind of vindicated that this is coming out now after being an investigator for so many years, and I'm sure that there's been times where, you know, people have told you that you're crazy or you're wasting your time, and now all the leading scientists and military industrial complex and everything is coming out and kind of vindicating what you've been talking about. There's a degree of that. I mean, yeah, I've been picked on by two friends. I've been the one who is oh, yeah, where's your tinfoil hat at today, you know, and and all the basic jokes like that. Or you know, they kind of and I was in a business, mean the one day when I was in the universities and one of my superiors look, that means is, what do you do for a hobby and I said well, and I knew he had a military background, and I said I kind of research Ufos, and he's and he didn't laugh. He says, yeah, I know all about you. He really had a sarcastic, arrogant appearance comments, you know, towards the whole thing and it was disappointing, you know. So I've been through all that. But now a lot of people like to talking about they go, Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw that stuff on TV, you know, like like this week it's been twenty four seven ufos on travel chap and I hate to tell you what I think of some of the shows, but but the thing is, you know, I do feel that at the government is at least moving forward, because that's what the other points that I want to make is you mentioned earlier about, in this case, the navy starting their own program to basically start looking at cases in a serious manner in two thousand and nineteen, because when project Blue Book and went out in one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine, I look at this, we had all these old hard copy reports. Stuff wasn't being done on computers. You can't kind of an arccake system and that system was extremely biased, depending on who is running it at the time, on what the outcomes are going to be. If he had, somebody was a skeptic, they're going to be basically trying to debunk a lot of stuff. Put it down you. Yeah, now they basically said that, hey, you know, after Blue Book shut down, we we might have taken information, most likely, but there was nothing in a formalized manner, is the key thing. Nothing that was standardized, and I could see that. Then they said that the air forced, like you said, jumped on board what two thousand and twenty, something like that. On Twenty, yeah, two twenty nineteen. They jumped on board, any about a year and a half, two years after the navy. I could also see that because the branches of the military are very competitive. I mean think about this way. You first of all you're competing for money for your different branches. Also, you've got your pride in your own organization and you're going to be, to me, looking out for your own organization first. So you're going to be looking at what's best for that. So if the air force develop something, they say, Hey, what we've got is good, we don't care really what the Navy does. We're not working worried about being uniform. Works for us. That was the rumors for this whole report. To that the navy was helpful and that was about it. Yeah, and there is actually a follow up letter to this report that basically stated that they want a standardized system develop period and the standardized system needs to go across the board with the structure. I mean it needs to be in the navy, the Air Force, the Marines, the army, coastguard, everybody should be using the same standardized form. Feels like it's Solf disclosure, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, now are are you skeptical that...

...they're going to misuse this? I mean now we have the military and whether or not they standardize, how they're going to report it and release it to us? You know, what are they going to leave out? Are they going to utilize this for their own purposes to either get more money or or who knows why? Just part of me, I think I know a lot of people a very excited about this, but part of me is skeptical. The people that are going to be telling us, you know, the military is going to be given us all some information. We can trust them? Yeah, I'm always skeptical. That's why, going to looking at things, I said, okay, let's go and cautious, as I call it, and let's see what they're saying. But one of the first things I picked up on the report was, well, we've established a fact that we are observing things. Are Military is observing these we can't explain. So we need to continue this and we also need more money to go along with it. Yeah, that was one of the first things I picked up on. So I'm like, wait a minute, is this a way to say, okay, let's get more money for defense spending in some manner? I seemed like it kind of right. It did seem like it the the thing it's going back to. I thought so in the done standardization. If you get these reports first of all all standardized, then we need to go back to use the artificial intelligence. You're basing everything from a standardized system, which to me would be much easier to create the architecture for artificial intelligence. Then, once you create that report, here's the that's the problem. You mentioned what is going to be in and what's going to be redacted, basically all the good stuff. Are they going to are they going to take and come out and say, Oh, by the way, yeah, we can explain the two thousand and nineteen things seen by the Omahall those were definitely drones. The question still out, though, who's they really were. I really appreciate the way you think, though, and I've said that before when I to talk to you, but you're watching the hands and not the rabbit in the hat or whatever. So they're standardizing the reports that they can for their serious business, put this in their artificial intelligence and actually figure out how to build their own UFO. Is Basically what I think they're trying to do. Well, and if you look at this way, if you got all this information and you can use the artificial intelligence, it's you're right. It's going to be much easier to tain anything you want out of those reports. If you find something it's related to et, you're right. You're going to be able to maybe gathered in information much quicker about EP if sightings are being made. On the other hand, for national the thin side, if you track certain objects in certain regions a lot, or if you detect certain sense or data in this region and you find out it's related to these things, maybe you can predict what these things are at and also what type of systems they may be using. I hate to keep interrupting, but you keep ramp good points. And when, when you just said that, they even mentioned in the report in the next steps phase, basically they're going to start studying I think they said three places. I'd have to find the way they actually said if they mentioned three places or areas of the world where they can expect UAP phenomena, and I'm interested in where that is. I think one of those probably Virginia Beach. One's going to be off of Virginia Beach, most likely going down to the Caribbean, and not just because of me get a triangle, but it's really because that's where a lot of the military operation area is. HMM, off the east coast. Then when you go out into the West Coast you're looking off of California, predominantly Catala Islands. The third area that's that's kind of hard to say. That could be so many different regions. Is it's something in the Pacific? Could it be someplace that we don't really anticipate? I think it could be the Pacific Ocean near China, where a lot of stuff has been building up, and at least if it was some of it was terrestrial and origin, that would be a good place to look. If it's extra terrestrial and origin, then we don't really know what their motive rations would be. You're right to look for them. Yeah, I don't know where. I like the number three, by the way. Sorry. They just say they're going to click in the most likely areas to encounter up. Yeah, and and if that's the big thing is, you want to try to predict where they're at, and so that's why they want to really track those areas. But I you know, I think that's what what they really want to develop as a standardized system to really try to identify these and a lot of stuff. Huh. I don't know if he saw the new video that came out like yesterday day before. Yes, I did. It was I heard somebody terminous lame and it kind of was and had come around.

Yeah, yeah, two objects which appeared to be kind of like maybe drones, and I was almost maybe in the completely misinterpreting, but it maybe something like a quad coptor type design, because they're able to cover and you had lights on the edges. Now, whether they're like on the corners of a quad copyright don't know, but you had two lights are get observed and then it appeared there's almost like an aircraft moving over the region in the background because it had a flashing light. And one of the things I'd want to know is from that is that if that's an aircraft in the background, isn't one of ours moving around back there trying to track something? And I just wonder you know behind those? But the videos themselves didn't offer a whole lot that real quick. Yeah, that video is interesting if it's as Jeremy Corbell says, and the video of it goes along with the radar and with the others flear from that Nimitz attack, and then it glinds up with them saying that they were flashing and just another piece of the pie for people like move on, to put together and try to come up with like a D battle field of what actually happened. And that's the real challenge, because the video he released almost pictured dead as like okay, he turned out the video to begin with a Trans Medium obj or I mean the night vision. Then he had to trans medium object, then he had the radar data and I could picture him waiting for the report to come out and say, okay, if you come out completely shoot everything down, I'm going to drop this one on you too. Here's another video and I've got more probably in the background. So he keeps supporting the thing with the Omaha there in multiple ways, which is good. But you're right. Creating the picture, to d model of everything, this is where you'd really need like all the satellite data from all the ships to be able to plot out their movements over like a threeday period. You'd want to add on top that like a layer of like aircraft that were moving around, because I've seen different ones say, oh, maybe they saw a different aircraft, maybe helicopters from some of the islands. We need that day to the layer on top of it and almost and really be able to like peel stuff away and put it back on so you can see it and take away the really visualize everything. May Be hard to get some of that because some of that I'm sure's going to classified. Even just how the navy movies and formation or how many planes I have out there? Who knows? Right there, you know you're right. are going to be difficult. There's so much going on in that reach knocker, because you have not only have our navy out there, but they're also flying planes from up around ox started, one of the base is going up Brown Mirmar, Oh, yeah, flying him down in here. And it's not just our fighters. Are Flying Foreign Flyer fighters down here to test out the operations. I just had an article by he's a not retired pilot, as I think his name is Matt Graves. Are Ryan Graves. He's one of the up witnesses and he said, and this article came out this month, he said he talked to us on that. Isn't that school now that they're still seeing them as of June, two thousand and twenty one, I can believe that Ryan Graves is the one who was sent to the squadron down there to actually the second, the third video that came out, the video called the Gimbal and the wonderfold go fast. We're taken by his squadron. Okay, the the first video, the one that was called the Non Gimbal, that was actually the one taking the with David. David fraver squadron often mimits. So that was only one video off the west coast and two of them off the east coast, but that's where they get confused. People get confused a lot on the videos. They think that they may all be off the west coast or, you know, get mixed together. So I just want to share something with you that the rick and I were talking about. And you know, if you read the report, and Kudos to the government for saying this, they say, yeah, we have a lot of ufo stuff, but it could be witnessed bias because we're out there recording stuff all the time. So we have a bunch of UFOS and maybe they show up everywhere. But I'm just starting to think, I've been reading theories that the UFOS are shown up in front of the military doing highly sensitive stuff and then's just kind of floating there and saying Hey, interact with us, and now there's maybe radio frequencies involved, or they'll go shut down a nuke site and just sit there like I think they're picking on the military to force them to communicate almost I don't know what theories you might have. Yeah, they're they're trying to get more information out. I think they're really trying to gather more information, because one of the things...

I mentioned report is that stigma is still there within the military and that's why different ones don't want to talk, because they're afraid that, hey, if I talk, I'm going to end up in some base of Alaska, I'm not on the paperworlded. Yeah, exactly, I'm never going to be promoted, I'm going to really be crapped on, if not thrown out of the military or whatever. So there's still that stigma about not talking and they're trying to, believe, break that to a degree. Now I think they're still going to be biased inside by different ones, because if you've probably got see a certain maybe senior military personal been there for years, they still may be under that bias. It says, note, these things don't exist, there's nothing like that and they could potentially still affect some of these people's careers. That I think are trying to break down that stigma. What happens if the government deems these being a threat, and can they say that, you know, guys, are not a lot of talk about this outside of the military and just shut it all down? Well, that goes back to when we're talking about collecting the data of what gets basically redacted, what gets taken out, because it could be very easy for them to say that some of this stuff is national security. We can't tell you that for whatever reason, we're tracking these objects, but yet we don't want you to have information when it out here in public, because it goes up public. They know what we know. One of the things drives me nuts is there's a website called a drive, which they do a great job on reporting and they get into military but sometimes it's almost like are they telling too much? I mean, if I may foreign power, I may be watching this website lot just to see what they're putting out there. For me I don't really have to work to get. You know, there's no doubt and and if any, of the nations that are not involved in this, if any, I'm not saying that any nations on earth created these things, but if they did, the ones that didn't created are watching as closely as the rest of us to try to figure out what this is and what they were to learn from about our military and about what these things are. Oh and your correct, because that's another good way to do what. You track what the other countries doing, what they're putting out their media. When the the the CIA letters came out about Ufos, actually a number of years ago we were tracking a lot of stuff in like England and other countries to see what was being put out about Ufos in those countries. And they're just kind of looking again to say, okay, as or these reports coming out that gives some sort of an indication and may benefit us of what these things are. You're running almost like a counterintelligence operation to see what, yeah, well, how the rest of the world was reacting to the news and what they were putting out. The psy ups come in. That's it, and I've always wondered part of me if this was a sci up, either for the benefit of China, like the United States government, showing that they had something, which it's still really hard to fathom that we would have something could do some of these things, but if we were putting out for the benefits bit of other countries, to it's kind of a warning, or if it's some kind of side up to the government's going to run on the rest of us. It's just so hard to know you're right, and that's where big challenge is separated, because you know some things and maybe putting reports like this one, and it may not necessarily be the one that we're seeing the public one. But what if they put something maybe in the one it went to Congress? Now would be kind of disinform in Congress. But what if you planted some seeds in there that you're looking to see if somebody picks up on? Yeah, and you know, tom like we're all having this conversation because we all have an interest in Ufos and what else could be out there. But, and you're someone that knows a lot about this and knows way more than my brother and I, but would it be easy enough for the government to have faked all this? I mean I've heard that theory being floated around out there. That could all just be CGI. Have you set across your mind now? I actually I've looked at that stuff because I'm the same I've seen all that stuff on, let's say, going back to like Apollo programs, potentially the moon landing being faked and, yeah, the faces on Mars. I mean I look at all that stuff from a curiosity point of view and and I go back on some of the stuff and actually do my own analysis on the photos and so forth to see what I can come up with. And when he gets to the point of let's say putting all all these videos out his disinformation. I don't see all like when you look at this report, they're saying a lot of stuff the UAPS, they're looking fact that they may be a drone of some sort. But when I look at that whole event, from two thousand and four...

...to two thousand and nineteen, the favor encounter is the biggest one to meet it they're going to have a problem with here. You've got witnesses citing them from two different viewpoints. They most likely have the radar data behind it at some, some location. That one's a real challenge. When it comes down to the drone activity, the videos from the limits, from the deck and you seeing objects flying around, something like that could be potentially hoaxed fake. But then you get the radar screens and the big questions when you start seeing all this stuff is who provided this information, because you'd like to hear witness testimony to support the videos and so forth, where they originated from, who took them, what times did, like you're saying earlier, put the D picture together and if this whole d pictures get come starts coming together really good, it makes it more difficult to kind of fas this stuff and if you follow the kind of timeline of the current events, it's that basically pilots are getting pissed that they're peers are laughing the stuff off. So they started leaking. Sure, I mean when you're doing I think this is a grave said that when you're flying out there in an object goes between two jets. Yeah, that Nice. It look like the jets are just standing still. Well, the report says the UAPTF has eleven reports of documented instance in which pilots repaired. Pilots reported near Mrs With the UAP so eleven times at least, where they almost crashed. That's right. They could have been a major inst at. All you had to do is something up in an engine and they could have gone down really easy. The question I have is where were those near Mrs Ad? I wish I knew were they? I don't know. They had one off off the coast of Virginia. Yeah. Well, if you if you read, and it sounds like you have all the Ryan Gray's reports, him and someone else. It's not like he was writing between them and they had to go off sor right pump the MIC bead to go off in the either direction. That was Virginia beach and it's hard to say exactly how far they were apart, but a number of times when they've seen him, you see him flying in formation their clothes. Yeah, so I can completely understand how they may have to beer off of something went between them on the never been to an air show? You can see they are almost wing to wings all. Yeah, it's crazy how for us they get. And they say these tick tack or a cigar shapes or whatever you want to call them, about the size of school buses. Basically it's like right, I mean, that's a that's a big old thing and it's not a radar. But if it's making you freak out, probably I'm they're seeing something now. And even when they said that the one object that here, one object was identified out of the whole report, one hundred and forty four. Yeah, and they say it was a deflating balloon. Well, first of all, where is the deflating balloon? WHO's DEFLATING BALLOON WAS IT? Was It ours, right, was it somebody else's? Off The westcoat coades spinal has going well. Google has taken balloons down along the coast. I was looking earlier and there was actually a balloon over the was it wasn't cancer. Maybe's up by Arizona more flying around that region. He said Google does that as a part of like their google earth or something. Well, Google had a program called loon that that supposedly was done away with, and these balloons are large and they've normally couped about sixtyzero feet, sixty fivezero feet, and what they do is a change or altitude up and down, and by changing your altitude they had hit different wind currents and they can really be relatively maneuverable on where they want to go. So they had some within the last couple of years going down to the West Coast along that region, and the whole purpose behind them is the loon project was to create like Internet access oh patients, like what Helon must was doing with Starlink exactly. It's going differences he put up. They put some Google loon balloon ballooons down around like Venezuela. I think they had him over in Porto Rico after the hurricanes because having so much stuff was taken down. So you want to get communications back up. That's pretty cool. actionally. Yeah, so that I mean that's that's one thing, but then we've also done our own stuff with balloons to like you say, spine. Oh yeah, on other countries, putting equipment up to certain altitudes, especially Venezuela, like, Hey, venecuity, do you want to Google Balloon? That's not a spy right. But Yeah, put it right of your oil fields. But yeah, but all of the signs, though, and they show these things on radar going up eightyzero feet in the air and...

...basically leaving the atmosphere like wounds aren't doing that and coming back down. And you know, yeah, no, it's just it's cool that they figured out what one of them was and found an explanation, but the other ones, they said, we might need science to advance like another century before I can figure out what these things are. So there has to be a fixed rate for the altitude that a ballooon can reach, anyway, I would imagine. Right, yeah, there's got to be. Yeah, there's got to be a rate that they go up. And also I don't know how they're going to be pick tracked on radar. Is that well, but you've got a balloon of a certain size and I don't know how well it picks up, you know, the balloon itself on radar as far as S I is wise, but you're tracking that object and when everything don't we and we check everything. Well, the limitation of the radar, though, when you look at flight flight charts, they mentioned in there that the in the military operation areas they tract things from like sea level, Eightyzero feet, because that's pretty much what their radar systems are designed to track. That range zero two, basically eighty eightyzero in a thousand. That's way high right. Most commercial aircraft isn't up there like thirtyzero. Ferre commercial you got like in but you may have business chests going to maybe like forty, forty five thousand. The you two, which is one of our higher flying planes. This goes back to s technology. It goes up there like sixty fivezero feet, and once you get that high there's a major problem of getting lift under the wings. That has a speed it has to travel at once it's there that if it varies from this speed like so many miles an hour, and it's not like a hundred miles an howe. It's only it's a very, very tiny range. If it varies one way the other too much, it actually falls right out of Guy Installs. Oh Wow, and that's what this the fighter juster saying. Is So amazing about these ufos they keep seeing. They see them sitting there against the wind. Just hang in, and they said for them to do that they'd have to be almost completely nose up. And you're still following, but you're falling at like fifty an hour. Yeah, and this thing's just sitting there and it has no like helicopter propeller, no visible thrust, no heat signature. So it's definitely weird. And the only thing we have to can basically hover there to a degree is a balloon type object. And the challenge that is going to be is it's not going to go from basically a zero to a thousand miles an hour. That's not going to happen. Yeah, and these things, they see them leaving our atmosphere, you know, coming back in, and I know that, like we have the US, at least the US air space is covered by satellite with regards to things going in and out, and so it leads me to believe. And then, on the same lines, they say the day that this nine page report came out, Congress or whoever got the seventy two report and they saw like seventeen new videos, as the rumor and all this stuff like we've known. The government, I think, is well aware of the UFO thing, way more than they're pretending their just sounce in one thousand nine hundred and forty seven at least. Yeah, yeah, they're aware. But now the reporting process, I think that fell apart, the documenting and so forth, because I can see that if certain reports came in, well, let's see, while we're tracking something here on the radar stir it's going fourzero miles an hour. We don't have a plane to go set fast or forget about probably a radar glitch. I could see that happening to a degree exactly. or I'm not going to report that because people are going to think I'm nuts, so I'll just shut up. So I can see a stuff overlooked like that. But that going back that standardized reporting process that I think it's a mandage where they have to have if they're really looking at this subject seriously. Well, there's something too, called a I think it's fast walkers or something, but like the people that watch space, they see like things finds our atmosphere real fast. All the time, and more often than not it is like a piece of a meteorite or something. A lot of times the huge ones come in and then disappear. The International Space Station has a camera that seems like it cuts out a lot when interesting things start to happen out there. Well, that's where the challenges field comes in at, because now you have to start separating fact from fiction and then also how it translates over to the public. There is a video I reviewed not long ago of which I explained a lot of stuff in the video and the person who's was working on the video, well, what about this, but about this? I'm it. Here's fast movers. And when they said that term I cringe because I'm like, Oh, you've been watching too much TV. I don't like the categorize things like that.

Yes, if things are moving fast, that's one thing, but be careful they don't start categorizing things. I got and I and I had to come back for them. I said, you know what, there is a fast fast walker or fast mover. Release what they used fast movers. That's called an insect. And I said you want me to show you a frame by frame where you can see the wings moving oh, yeah, now, I agree you. On video. Yeah, and and then I didn't get a whole lot of response. I said, I can do a frame by frame. Trust me. Time someone appreciates a deep bunker. Yeah, and the thing is is that's one of the problems it sometimes creates. Now there are nominalis that? Yes, I definitely agree with out there that your questionable. That's why I'd like this to really see good analysis on this, because some maybe explainable, some may not be. And there's always that question. Did they block out a camera intentionally at a certain point to maybe, you know, eliminate something from being tracked on the screen? And I think that they answer is probably yes, at least something is. It's very likely yes. But then it's also the system that, in a sense, to you know, we created that conspiracy type thing to look for something like that automatically. Well, you know what it is. Once you start lying, it's really hard to start telling the truth without, oh, looking terrible for years. And so, Oh, you're here, exactly right. I mean I I'm a senior group and when somebody looks at me and says I open say we know the governed government ever do any cover ups? I said, Oh, let's think about ancient orange and in the Vietnam and things like that. You know, yeah, stuff like that we're overlooked. Or let's go to area fifty one and people dying of like cancerous types diseases. And then Clinton put out a thing that hopes these people can't talk about what you're exposed to, what they're around anything else, because it's national security. Yeah, I mean they I don't trust the government, no matter who's in power. Years and years and years of them pulling the wool over eyes or lying to us when it was convenient and only tell us the truth when they got caught out. Yeah, I mean there's very recently. I pretty much like listen to Dr Vauchi to this day, still by like I don't like that. They like to us about the masks early on. I get why they did it and that's not what we're here to talk about. But, like, the government lies all the time, for sure, and they yeah, they tell the truth when they get caught but exactly, Tom did you ever think that you would get to this point in your career where the government would be acknowledging these ufos? I mean, five years ago, did you think that this is what happened in your lifetime. Oh No, I mean to be as open as they are now. I never saw that coming. Again, I'm on the skeptical side. I could see them with holding information that they had it for who knows how long. That's why I think it's such a such a you know, pleasant feeling that hey, the art coming out least now, saying we have stuff that we cannot explain. We have pilots saying that, we have other military personnel saying that. I got one more question and I just wondering all your your kind of connections and stuff out there. Have you heard anything about the full report, the seventy two pages and maybe more videos and all that? No, I haven't everything about the full report yet. I kind of keep my ear out there just listening the full report, and that the same with any other videos that maybe out there kind of floating around. I'm not hearing that. Sometimes I'll hear, like a lot of people do, the secondhand stories from people who were potentially in the mirror military at times, where people who were in the military at times, some of the stories that they relay or some of the stories that they're friends have told by being involved in some of these situations. Those I hear and I'm always keep my my year out for those. But again, the thing that I also see as a number of the ones who were in the military still respect a job that they did. Yeah, and the only and they still feel that responsibility. Hey, I'd love to tell you about this, but even though I'm not bound by an agreement, let's see, of any sort, I still feel a responsibility to maintain, let's say that that's at us on security or whatever, certain my knowledge on certain things. Yes, and I do have to respect that. Yeah, they people that take the oath. Amount of women take that oath. They meet and when they when they swear, and they they don't do anything to disrespect that. So we can respect that too, though sometimes we wish that we could know more and all some...

...more powers the whistleblowers, like kind of like Lue Alsando. None of this, none of his change that I think he kind of helps start. What have happened if he hadn't read that resignation letter because within the channel command he didn't feel like he could be a whistle blower. But that's like people like him do stuff like that. Yeah, you got this stuff like from L os onto and it was all really big, like snowball with everything. Chris Mellon the way it sounded, he kind of like passed the DVD with some of the videos onto the parking lot, stuff like that. That's three. That's cool. It's like Das art stuff. Yeah, that's that's what I heard, is he was doing the interview the one day and he says, yeah, I had a DVD and they says a change hands and a parking lot. Wow, I'm but that's true. I make the the famous detect video, they say was actually online since like two thousand and eight or something, unlike some random message board form. The guy leaked it. Yeah, and every one said it was fake, that all the debunkers immediately debunked it. Yeah, because the guy that owned the hosting company was like a computer graphics firm. They just shows you how much we think we know. Everyone, I think, thinks they're more of an expert in any subject matter than they actually are. Yeah, and if you never believe in anything, you're never wrong. You look smile. Yeah, and I reun that all the time out there different ones that that's want to act like they know everything about stuff. MMM, and me. I rather set back and listen a lot of times and see dumb here what people tell me and kind of like go back and filled it, go back and look at it from a skeptical point of view. Are they telling me? Is that accurate as it possible? Because I've been in groups where different ones who were going to literary talked about some of their experiences and I want to look at a couple people straight out and say, have you been on crack half your life? Are you serious of some of the stuff that you're trying to get me to believe? You maybe get the schmuck over here to believe everything you're telling me, but seriously, you want me to believe that why you left the group. You know, you're telling us when we talk to you before, they you left another UFO society or investigator society because they wanted to go on the fanciful side of things and more of an evidence base. Guy, you're right, and because the group itself, I mean, was a cleanly fology project. Great Group. They were founded back in the S. have had a lot of great individuals with him over the group. There's unfortunately a number two hit. A lot of history behind the group is going up. What they where they started from, what they did good, but to kind of give you an idea about some of the stuff they they were involved with. Is Back in it had to be like the early S, sometime during Ser's dead a director by name of George Neff who did a great job, very active in the subject. I'm sorry, Earle Neth Girl, myth go blank there for a second. Earl nef and I was going through archival material of mine and there was an investigator in the akronegery named George Papa which who was researching a case of a America, I think is American Airlines, plane which had an encounter with a UFO around the Cleveland region. So he told asked early said can you go and talk to these pilots for and earl actually went out to the airport track of pilot down and talk to him, even though there hasn't about doing so. And you see these these letters going back and forth, hard copy of letters and says don't nail the stuff to me anymore about you know this case because our mails being intercepted and they thought their phone calls are being tracked. I mean that was clear back like the s sometime you think that they actually were being watched. It's very possible. I know some of the stuff I've been doing has been tracked off and on. Kind of scary, but they did a great, grew a job and I think of that history, where the group was at and all the cases. I've got a lot of their investigations from like the S and s, two hard copies. A lot of great research there. But now, and I think part of it goes back to the changing climate of ufos, to paranormal everything else, now they were leaning more towards the interesting stories, yeah, which which okay, you know, if you want to talk about them, fine, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be agreeable with them, you know, and the way I look at it, I am sorry, I'm talking over you. That's right. The New Age movement, when it got into the UFOLOG and they kind of merged it, it didn't do anything for the science. Of all became about experience and some kind of transcendental encounters. Yeah, I mean they...

...got into things like I even helped a person put together a presentation on underground tunnels, secret basis, underground across the country, and one of the things that they were they wanted put in. There was all there's tunnels going clear across the United States underground. There's tunnels going from Las Vegas to like Los Angeles Underground. Is that even feasible? Well, I helped them put the stuff together, the stuff that they provided to me in a format, and I said, well, first of all, where did you get this stuff? All for Youtube and the video they gave to me showed a truck going into a tunnel and they're talking to the driver. He goes yeah, I says, these tunnels go back and here he says, man, I forget how many hundred miles I got drive under ground and make doing this. He says, yeah, they run a clear across the country and he's doing this whole story and the tunnel was actually the entrance to the ones. It's a storage facility, like down in Missouri you were they've got these underground tunnels that they use for story storing everything. Like there's a company like Iron Mountain whose stories documents. Yes, and that that's what you're looking at. And it was just a whole bs made up story. I mean I'm sure there's secred of tunnels that are actually part of the government's infrastructure, but I hope was going across the country, the tailings would be the size of Mount Everest, if not bigger. You know, I mean just the from pulling the dirt out. I'd say I am coming around to the whole they live under the oceans thing with the aliens. Yeah, I mean there's so unexplored and the fact that we're kind of getting down there more and favor. He talked out the water roiling and seeing like a giant cross shaped kind of Ufo down there and some I think, D Trick d trick. The female pilot said she saw that. And then there's another story where they talked about they would they would test like these missiles out there in the navy and like shoot him out, yeah, and then crashing the water and they'd have the frog men jump off the ship, you know, go get them. And at one point they're going down to recover of this cruise missile that they were testing and a circular shape, like almost the size of like an island, they said, came out of the deep sea and pulled the missile away from them and they just got the hell out of the one. I would get the hell out of there too. That was that story came from one of favors buddies. I mean he said his buddy was, I think his buddy was in the marines, because you got the navy and the marine still operating off the same ships. Yes, and his buddy was off the coast of virginuine had happened. And he said there was one instant where they were recovering like a torpedo that was launched from a sub where a ship, they were recovering it and a diver goes down and is he's hooking on. This object comes up from below and they hooked on and they raised the torpedo to recovered it. They but they sold this huge black mass under the water. He said that wasn't a sup he says in the thing then drops down and disappears. But they said like a month or two months later, that's when the second incident happened, that they're doing another recovery, like you said, of something like a missile. Then the objects coming up in the pilot screaming, screaming through the Intercom at the recovery guy, hey hey, heyy, something's coming up from down below and they went in, retracted the diver pulleding back up, and that's when they saw that that torpedo basically being sucked down or the missile being stuffed under water and they lost it. That's the sad story blue favor away. And when you think about it, like I don't know, like on paper, how fast they tell us that our fastest like nuclear stuff can go, it's not fast. They like no, fifty miles an hour or something like that. And there's no visibility down underwater. And we can stay under for like a couple hours, like at the Mariannas trench or whatever. But May has tranches. That's like Mountain Everest. Everyone do because you can go yeah, but that's not where anything's happening, like and it's dark and it's silty, like there could be anything down there. There's so much of the ocean it's unexplored. Think of when it just something simple, when they were looking for the airliner off of yeah, they lost off of India. Yeah, fifty or whatever it was years ago. How many ships were looking for that thing and they found nothing, but they admitted how much of the ocean out there they had no real knowledge of. It's so and I don't think they've ever found it, have they no, they found things that they believe were from it. But fragments. Absolutely. Yeah. Then you do? You throw into it going to the Arctic. You throw in those regions which him. Yeah, we have subs up there, we have different things going on, but how much of that area is still unexplored? Yeah, the...

...arts is an interesting one because it I don't let you export. Now it's all. Yeah, there's a crazy stories always going back to Admiral Bird and stuff like that, and different is being black out. I which get into the conspiracy side a little bit again, you know, and the things like that, which I don't have to research to a whole lot of or you've got two reported Nazi bases in the Arctic. Yeah, the sister base to the Nazi Moon Base. It's going to be interesting, though, like so just, you know, imagine five years from now. We we have the overton windows already shifted so much, right, so imagine it shifts even more. It's like okay, yeah, US has ufos, like all the crazy Nazi stories, and all this time. That would be the same time period like Roswell's forty seven right. So they were visiting then, they're visiting earlier, and I mean at the end of World War II. They're supposedly things that disappeared from Germany and went to down the South America region. Yeah, sure, and there's alders operation paper clip, where we, you know, definitely benefited as far as the space program goes, with Nazie. What do you call them? Rocket Scientists? I don't know where they're gone there on. Yeah, yeah, von Braun and different ones on there. I mean that we definitely benefited from. But the question always have behind that is I don't think you're seeing the difference in technology from what they had what we're seeing now. You're absolutely right. I mean we had scientists. I had that stuff on paper. Maybe not gone as far with some of the test programs and stuff that they did, but it wasn't radically different like with the what we're discussing with these uaps is radically different from anything that any nation, sick we know, puts in the sky. That's it, because one of the things I always wanted to do as a video on the German technology because there's some interesting points they bring up, but there's some other stuff that's like total crap. They say, well, you know, look at the Germans with both the flying wing and the stealth technology they had going on and stuff, but we had a guy called northrop doing the same thing at the same time. You're right, the flying wing. You see it as it is now, but he was in the flying technic wing technology, the S and their rocket program we had scientists at universities in the US that were experimenting with rocketry. To that wasn't very different. I mean, we learned a lot from their experience when we run made that deal with the devil and brought these guys over. But isn't that almost more evidence for these ufos or UAP's being off world? Because even with us and the Manhattan project everything like that, like Russia had just started messing with atomic energy like it had. It's just shown up, you know, like people knew about it, and this thing like I think now we're thinking maybe they somehow have a gravity propulsion drive, but no one is even close to messing with that. No, I don't think it's. When you get into like the anti gravity drives, etc. I don't think that's a terrestrial technology, at least terrestrials we know it. Put it that way. Yeah, from Earth as we know it. It could be, like I mentioned earlier going back to some having an origin we're just not completely aware of yet. There may be something out there we don't know about. Well, let's be real. As far as an Asians say said, we know now China, USS are or Russia, excuse me, the United States, South Korea, Japan, one of these countries have been experimenting openly with anything close to this. Haven't hinted in any way of having anything close to this. USA is the only only one, I would believe. Yeah, we when you look at, let's say, for example, the focusing right now on the objects moving it tremendously high speeds, the objects making the extreme rapid turns, that the speeds it's have been claimed, and not creating sonic booms, by the way. Yeah, yeah, when you look at those singularly right now, I don't believe that there's any power that we know of in the world that has the capability of the engineering an object. They can withstand the g forest is and so forth involved with it. Yeah, I mean it doesn't even exist theoretically, on paper really anywhere that's been published. Now you've got to have either a knowledge on how to basically devoid, you know, those chief forces like when you have the Trans medium objects, something go from the air to underwater and maintain speed. You've got to...

...have something they can override that. Yeah, you're right. And and let alone not get ripped apart by going from entering the atmosphere, going through our atmosphere, entering the water, maintaining the integrity of the hall. That's phenomenal. You're right. Night. I don't see us having the technology and it kind of hitting the German thing again. Anybody who suggested. Well, you know, they had German technology, a German reflying UFOS. I don't believe that. Now they would have won World War Two if they had a lot. Well, to begin with, if the individuals really researched it, some of their jets they were flying were made out of wood. The jet that they brought over and recovered at the very end was wood plane. Really it would. It was made out of wood. Room did it perform any better than the must all it their performed very well. You know, we could do a Nazi podcast and I love it because what street up the Germans was his supply lines were so crazy. He thought he could just be in Russia in the winter all the times. Then all supplies there while genociding a whole ethnicity for no good military reason or any reason, like there's no way to operation. And then over engineering all the mechanics of the tanks in the plane. You were leaking out of his brain. It just assembly ligne them. And just to clarify that, when when you looked at the plane, like the Em me two hundred and sixty two, which is a German fighter, came out of the very ended, Hitler really screwed that up and and put that plane behind on development. But there was an all metal plane. They've got the engine just of one of those down at Right Patterson and I looked at the engines and from a mechanical point of view it's great engineering for that time frame. Well, they were really like Mercedes engines or something, or they junk. They might have been junkers or something like that. YOUNKER's okay, because I know they were pretty good. Right. Yeah, I've talked to engineers that said. That is when you look at like the United States, the mustangs, we had so many different moving milled parts in it that things would go wrong. In the German particularly, you very few parts. It was beautiful engineering, but it took so long to make. What expense was the thing? I mean the engineering behind that plane was fantastic. The comet, which was another one of planes, actually had a rocket in it. That thing was basically designed that if you saw a bomber coming, they would launch her from the ground. It was designed to go and basically try to do one intercept, get one shot off and it would come down. And it landed on the skids. That was an all metal plane, but the chemicals that they used for propulsion at the time they said if they mixed two of the chemicals together accidentally, the plane would explode. That's not good for the pilot. Now and and they're flying wing design is one which was all wood. At the very end it's a rocket with a seat on it. Yeah, it did that one. They were having their working on the technology for the engines. From all my research, which is kind of unproven, they basically had the concept down. They were working on but at the end of the war they're out of resources, running out of resources and time, basically. Yeah, so that plane never really got off the ground. They did some a couple test versions, but again it was just like very early stages. But you're looking at an all wood flying or wood covered flying wing. And what you have there is a country with lots of really talented engineers that got everything green lit, but it wasn't extra trustale and it wasn't like how we were talking about now, thousands of years ahead of technology that any other nation had at the time. You're right. And the one thing that they had. The rumor out there was, oh, they had what was called the Glock, termed this to Bell ufo thing that you see pigs a line. Yeah, yeah, do you have follow thing? But you've got individual saying, yeah, they developed a bill here. It used like mercury spun. It's super high speeds or something like that. And again and then they follow up and say yeah, and the end of the war there's one transport plane that was a super large transport plane that took it to South America. They think. I'm sure that's real. I'm sure that's you. I'm sure I'm sure there's some guy in like, you know, s USA that figured out like Lectro magnetic kind of make something hover for like twenty minutes or whatever, two minutes even, and I'm surely we've been tinkerant it since then. But it's obviously not good enough for prime time. Yeah, it's they may have theories down ideas behind stuff, but the thing is that they really development to the level that different ones were claiming. They'd be fine in them. Yeah, we'd be going commercial and yeah, mother ships. And one of my buddies sent me a picture of one of the German UFOS.

Well, look at this, look at it, here's here's picture. I said. What's the origin of the picture? I said, I could probably argue it's it's not CGI it's preseg right. That's like when Stalin removed people from his pictures. Yeah, and it also doesn't mean that it wasn't a real prototype that never went anywhere either. Yeah, I'm sure you could figure out how to wire up some batteries and some magnets and make yourself float inefficiently for twenty minutes or something possible. You've seen videos from I've seen videos from like the military and like the s of the guy. So we went down a big rabbit hole. But one of the things that I wanted to ask you Tom just where do you think we're going to be five years from now? As far as disclosure? We're with this conversation. What would it sound like five years now, five years from now? Here's the big GUFTS. It depends on what direction you really go. I think if they go in the direction where they establish a standardized system, they put a standardized system across the board and reporting of all branches of the government that's involved, they get a structure to it, they get a true team that's looking at this from a a good objective point of view. Let's look at this and yes, you're going to be skeptical, but in the other hand you're also going to be not debunking everything. You look at in that light and they say, Hey, we have to look at this from a national defense point of view. Also, you have to look at it from the fact that can we recover something that you know, if they do that in five years, I think you may be amazed at how many encounters that they start putting in somebody reports. I really do. I think you may see a big increase in that. Now, at the end of the day, though, of that increase, how many him were the David favors? It maybe like with cases we're involved with from Moof on, you may have a handful of them. Do you think that other nations are going to start doing this too with their military. Other nations claim to, but sometimes when you watch two shows, I love to read between the lines too. They're mentioning one of the countries the other day or someplace like Chile or somewhere like that. Oh we've got this great program set up. In anybody really listening on how much? Well, we got in the like sixty cases this year, and I'm like, sixty cases, I get that in two months for sure, you know, and that's just a hile. That's not even United States. So it's like that's not many, you know. And what are you really doing with him? Sometimes, when like concerned, is when you get they come in from other countries. Are they really looking at the things, like I mentioned, from a little bit of a skeptical point of view well, or is their culture more to really get excited and start promoting the stuff? What about other major western powers like the UK, Germany, Australia, these countries, and I know Australia's a pretty active UFL reporting base from the citizenry? When, if they're military, will start a program? I think they already are to degree that you're right, though, from the private citizen point of view. They've had a good program going on for years down here because I know of some people I met. Fact I've got some magazines and my archives. If I'm correct, they go back to the S or s all from Australia. Yeah, I know that they've been reporting kind of similar, you know, to the US for quite a long time and I'm not sure how they're going to respond. I can see maybe UK being similar to us. Possibly Australia made kind of be along the same line, since the relationship between the countries, but when you get into some of the other other countries, so that's hard to predict. When you go into countries, France has been very open about stuff, but the big question mark is is everyone is going to have their one agenda and it's really hard to predict what they're going to be doing. I can see, you know, the different ones tracking things like I can really see China and Russia tracking what the US is doing. Oh Yeah, for sure. I don't see China disclosing anything or encouraging any want to ask questions, though. I don't think no, it's Tina is going to disclose anything. No, if anything, I can see this information coming out to a degree or promoting things that maybe unusual just to get attention. And I think we know realistically that any any announcement that the are military makes, they know that their audience is going to be countries like China and potential adversaries...

...too, I think, and that's been filtered. And our government also knows that. You're not only going to have the pro ufo people looking at but you're going to have to debunkers really looking at stuff and you're going to have them out there really analyzing their reports, yeah, tearing them apart. And and the good thing about the United States is is we're free to put, you know what, far posting stuff out there on websites, on Youtube, different forms of media, like other countries may be restricted. Yeah, we can have these conversations together and raise whatever questions are objections we want and not worry about someone knocking at our door. Hopefully, you know sure. I mean that. To me is a great advantage because if they do put something out, they know that the public is going to be looking at it and they're going to be analyzing it and then there's going to be media attention to this stuff. That's why it's it's great that this whole thing came out the way it did, because now you've got the major networks buying into it, looking at it. Well, they put it on a month from now. Too much from now? That's hard to say, but it got their attentions really for it, you know, in a more mass form than, I think, what you've seen it in years. It's feels like there's definitely been a shift. Yeah, I mean you which it's night and day, and I'm excited about words and to go in the future. But you know, next time there's another big break in this I would like to be able to reach out to you again and we just we, my brother and I and our audience, really appreciate hearing from you like you have insight in history in this that hardly anyone else out there does, and we love talking to you. Yeah, you just great guy to talk to you. I really enjoy it and and I'm where those guys as I used to get chewed out a lot when I would go into meetings at the university and say hey, remember back whenness happened? Remember that would bring up the history of things that went on at university. Well, that's old days. Forget about. That was yesterday. Well, we learned from history and we learned from these events, and that's why I mentioned earlier that we could look at all these new cases, really analyze and maybe create a system for artificial intelligence that you can go back and look at these cases like the royles wells, look at the RENDELSHOM's forest from a different point of view, looking at, letting it analyze this, these old cases, and you may find a number of correlations in these old cases that relate to what's going on now. Yeah, well, then it says yeah, and it says, Hey, guess what, these things we saw in two thousand and nineteen hate they were here in one thousand nine hundred and forty seven. You know, that's a buzzin mind. And they looked the exact same, like we're saying earlier. There this tick, taxiguard, doesn't matter what you call it, it's been shown up. Yeah, pretty much. It's the same thing, just now that they're admitted, instead of trying to say that it swamp gast. For that, you're crazy. Yeah, really, we sure do appreciate your time. Yeah, no problem. I know you got some other interviews and articles to write, so thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it. Have a good holiday any kind. Look just let me know, and you guys have good holiday too. Yus, thanks for joining us. I hope that you enjoyed this episode. I want to steer you to our web page, WW DOT invisible ships podcastcom. I've included a lot of links, including links to Thomas Wortman's own podcast called you fot to see, which is a fantastic podcast that covers all different types of ufo sightings. We also have the official U AP Report on Our web page and some links to move on and other resources. So go to www dot invisible ships podcastcom to check that all out. And until next time, shipmates and invisible ships podcast out this show maybe we produced anyway without the mission right invisible ships productions and they'll see. Until next time, shipmates,.

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