Invisible Ships podcast
Invisible Ships podcast

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Six Stab Wounds

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When the body of a missing township trustee is found in a lake in small-town Ohio, the mysterious circumstances surrounding his disappearance and autopsy findings raise more questions than they answer

Chipollak is a small village in MadinaCounty Ohio with a population of hundred o eight hundred people. The village shares its name with thelake that it sits on. Today, Chipua Lake shores are crowdedwith the townhouses and cottages they were once used as weekened escape palmsfor wealthy clevanders. The village also shares its coastlinewith an abandoned and dareloked amusement whose decaying remnants haveslowly been reclaimed by nature near the lakeside Gibo Alake is a quiet, mostly forgottenplace, whose glory days are long gone. The people of Chipa Lake were quitecontent to be forgotten by the rest of the world. They were enjoying theirpeaceful, quiet, village and then one day a grizsly discovery was made andeverything was about to change breaking news out of Modina County, atown trustee missing for weeks, just confirmed to be the body found inChipawalin. When I heard about it, I had like an inclination that that couldbe the person that was found his family and friends with some closure to hismysterious disappearance. But the investigation into how he died is justbeginningready FORTAKEOFL. We are back for season two of invisible ships andwe are coming out of summer vacation early, because our brother in law,Darren, who've, never met and we've never discussed before bis. A super,exciting guy, it is worth talking about, has been in our ear all summer about acase that he's fascinated about an it's a case that involves the disappearanceand ultimately murder of a local politician. He was a township trustyfrom a ruraltown nearby, where we live yeah, so back when this happened inDecember. Sixteen right away. That was the subject of conversation atThanksgiving and Christmas when we would be over there and just kind ofchatting about what's going on in the world and we've followed it ever since,and then just this summer he got a tip from one of the locals that he workswith out there of where the murder weapon may have been dumped in a inletinto thechipualake. So darenbein durn actually went out and purchased tooheavyweight fishing maigenance, with the hopes that we would be able torecover this murdere weapon that was thrown into the Chipawa Lake in I us ahim Bak apoint here, and this is Gointo- apply to a lot one of the great things about Rick andwhene of the GEA things about. There is when they do something: they don't doit small. They do it really big, and so one afternoon we all got together andwe decided to go magnet fishing under a damage- decade: old, confrige bridgeover the Chipawa and oweave successively snuck earof,inflatable kayaks into the chiple inlet, and we ere Peta Round under the bridge,we've dropped or fishing magnets and were pulling up a lot of rust and a lotof bridge debrit some nails, nothing really o to get excited about, and thenall of a sudden I make the most important discovery of thedoas otheCIBWA inlet. I said a Bote oe knihe till Brin, maca R SOMHA somebody US cutTreadan Botitokay, I'm not convinced that that was the murder weapon. Whatwe found was a rusted old butter knife that looked like it had been in thewater for quite a while and probably has more to do with a century and ahalf of people enjoying picnics on the shores of Chipua Lake or to theabandoned amusement park and very little to do with the death anddisappearance of Brian Makrin, so maydo an find the actual murder weapon, butit got the investigative juices flowing yeah. It definitely did and then Darrincalls a couple of days later, with some really exciting news.

...whathes on talking Toyouoh, no way man,we got to record that holy crap. Do That's awesome? Okay, Danny! You know that we have aninterview coming up with Brian Makren's widow and with her private,investigator and they're, going to be givin us some really good stuff. Somethings T T, I didn't even think they talked to the news media about, in fact,I'm certain that this is the most definitive interview that anyone isever conducted with Victoria Amaricaan, the widow of Brian mackron, and beforewe get into the interview with those two, though, let's bring Darren intothe studio, and I want him to kind of go over the case with us. What got himinto it, and just les talk about some tearswe're here now with Darin ourinvisible shipmake, it's good to be here. I thought you know like being abrother in law and I' W'd be called like you know, seamen or something, butI I think that's appropriate, but anyway welcome aboard and we're gladthat you're here, because you know more about the Brim Axim case than prettymuch anybody out there right has been a long standing kind of fascination foryou. I don't know if I know more than anybody out there, but I definitelyknow what has been put out in the newspapers. And you know it's been a really excitingjourney here. So far as far as collecting all this stuff and startingthe process of reaching out and h different people that that just wanna,they wantt answers- and I think th at well find that as we go forward thatthat people are are really still in a tune to this, they want answers. Theywant to know what happened to Brian they're they're,not buying it ri ht the know, the more that I think about this particular case.It's either the most complicated suicide or this man was murdered, andhopefully we H, you know you're going to get into that and kind of explainwhy. You think that that was a murder and I don't know just educated us aboutfriaamericats case and real quick before you get started too. I I justwant to point out that one of the advantages that you have here teren isyou live in Madonna County close to where this happened and your work takesyou through those small town, an the whole area where this happened, and youwere onto this case kind of right away when it happened 'cause it was in thelocal news and it piqued all F or curiosity, O Yo' kind of been on theground. With this sort of the whole time I mean. Obviously you weren'tactivally Investigatin the whole time, but you were always kind of listeningfor any news right yea I mean you know I am I am. I have no investigativeskills whatsoever. I am just a rather than I'm Adana County. I I readthe news. I talk to people, I you know. I think we all three of us have theability to reason but H, yeah, you know it it's just I like I like datelines,you know, and it was like. Oh my gosh like as soon as this happened. It was.This is something straight out of dateline, like datline's Gon, to pickthis up. No doubt isn't there didn't deyline actually come to town and theyjust kindof never did an episode, B'cause, there's no conclusion yet I Iknow that dayline interviewed Brian's...

...brother that that he interviewed withdateline, but that's the only spot that I have found thus far that dateline is looking into it. The story haseverything small town, family man that you never expect to come in and then just the mysterious circumstances andunknown manner of his death that you're going to lay out for us here yeah. Youknow I mean I sit and talk with. You know my wife and it's like this is likea real life, clue game where you really just sit there, and you just think Idon't know exactly who did this, but I think I know it's got to be. thit's gotto be one of the ones that I think we're going to talk about, but, like Isaid this is all amateur work. Yes, we're not going to make any allegations,we don't. This is just all our kind of thoughtsand sort of amateur investigation and interviews with some of the principalsinvolved. Om An interview with Bryan's widow, Victoria and her privateinvestigator, so we do have some first hand reporting what they say is whatthey say: it's not necessarily our opinion or we'll. Let them speak freely.I I think that, if we're going to do the interview, we're going to do itright, Ey we're to let them talk whatever kind of elegation they makethey make that on their own. I think at the end of the day, we just noticedthat here in our own back yard, we have a very intriguing mystery and also avery tragic story that there's hurting people and a hurting family out there.That wants answers, and you know there wasn't really a whole lot out there about this,and I do just want to make one thing clear. Victoria technically does nothave a private investigator. The gentleman that Wev that we I havemade contact with and and will have on an interview. He is technically aretired federal criminal investigator. It sounds more intressing, it is he'sOt, Ou, o the more that I talk with him Um. He really knows his stuff. I mean He.Victoria was fortunate to have somebody put the man hours in and with theexhertise that he has. We we UM, he es definitely an asset to the case. Nodoubt he knows more than I do. DPHARMANcontact, Victori, Amacno Toviorimakron find himlike Ow, O Tay Um. Well, so Um Victoria got a lawyer. Last name is lily andlily nose. Paul Po knows a lot of people in this area. He' he's just oneof those guys that you know the justice system he she's been in and out ofquite a bit M, not from a personal standpoint but from a workstay on alegal side. Correct. Yes, so h, you know he he he knew lily. He isfrustrated before this with how cases get handledout here in Madina County I mean just being out here and even since themacron murderer and there's another case, I would love to talk about atsome point. You know that that just it it just doesn't make sense, so he hesaw that he didn't want Victoria to get railroaded. So so, for my understandinghe reached out through M Victoria's lawyer and they agreed, and he is doingthis all probona those transition now into talking aboutBriamakron as a person and then Brian mackren is disappearance in why thiscase is interesting. Why this not just a cut and DRI missing person case oreven a Cutt and dry suicidor murder. So I mean, I think, we'e going tounderstand what we know: Mot Bri and particularly what I'd like to do. First,Um, because I think there's going to be a lot of listners that are going to belocal and I think it's good to to other people that that aren't so local ondare just interested in the case. In...

...general, I think we need to paint thepicture of what we've been through locally. As far as you know, the theinformation given at certain time points so what I've done and I'vepulled together, information that strictly from articles published of WHOBrian was so. This is not anything that Victoria has said. This is stuff.That's come from the the different news, like TDACKRAN BEACON, the gazetteCleveland plane, deal or stuff like that. So what we know is Brian was atownship trusty. He was elected in two thousand and ten there was a vacancy atthat point that he was able to fell. He did get reelected in two thousand andfifteen, so he lives in lafeyette township. He was trying to get on theboard for the school in two thousand and thirteen. But then I guess therewas like a conflict of interest at that point, so active guy active in hiscommunity sort of a political career starting yeah yeah. He was she was kindof starting this political career hew was a freshman football coach from aDina City, which is interesting. B'cause he's afather of three girls, so he's kind o got this, like you know desire, thinkis a man to do that, but originally he isn't fromMadea. He grew up in North Roylton. He met Victoria, which is which was hiswife, N, Anine uteen and eighty nine. He wasa jeweller or she worked for a jeweller business. He started working at a Jewlystore as a teenager, so it w's kind of like a high school job that he wasdoing yeah. He went the treisty m nineteen, Ninety one he was enlisted inthe Marines Um. He was part of the anti terrorism security team called fast. Hedid go to Guat Guatanimo Bay. He was stationed there. This sort of yourupstanding all American man that which will be important later wouldnknow how to take care of himself too. With the the military background rightright Y, he had the training he was a marine. I mean Rans are just tough thatthat's Kindof like what we know about Brian Now, going to twenty sixteen. Sothis is Um. You know this is when it all happened so December fifteenth oftwenty. Sixteen. What we know based off of the newspapers was briant attended,a social function with some colleagues, the colleagues that we knew were likefrom like different t least Lafayette Township. We don't know exactly who allwas there. We don't even know weecesarily where it was on the sixteenth. You know so I heardthat was of he Wakeng Lizard, that's Bo. We know that later yeah, but we didn'tknow that at the time of the this is all based off the article. So this iskindof like when things came out and when the locals knew it Ao w anybodyfollw in the case early on. That's all the information they had in the firstarticle on the sixteenth Um, that's when Bryan's office, so they basicallythey put in, like you, know, trustie missing under suspicious circumstances they located car, but they did notprovide the address Um. So all we knew was that's when everybody kindof knewwho Brian was at that point. As far as like t at something something weird wasgoing on right before Christmasthey only said that he was last seeing thatat a county, Township Association Holiday Party at winking, Lizard, soyou're right at the sixteenth, that's when h Y, they announced it inBrunswick the day after he went missing. Eight thousand dollars was spent toreplace the carpet and repaint the walls and ceiling of the townshipoffice. That was from the Beacon Journal. Okay, that'supicious, that is,and that Yo will definitely be talking about more so on the twenty first. You know, BCI and FBI were involved now, keep inmind the twenty first sixteenth. There is more than a day right, so BCIFBIinvolved the report. The office was...

...ransacked reports, blood was found inhis office and his car and release where his car was located. Um reportsthat a colleague found the office early in the morning of twelve sixteen ell, the Esigner County, Sheriff'sdepartment, says this case got sterted right here at the lafeete townshipadministration building after a township coworker contactedinvestigators about Whal, look like a possible altercation and suspiciousactivity at the offices. Here, the investigation revealed the townshiptrusty Brian Makron was found to be missing under suspicious circumstances.Several hours later, police macrons abandoned vehicle was found four milesaway here in this public parking lot on beach side boulevard, Inchipawa Lakethis case, involving trustee mackroun, has now triggered an official missingpersons report. Anyone with information about this case is being asked: thecontact of a Dina County, Sheriff's department, reporting here, LafiaTownship, I newsfive investigator jopaganacus. He reports an altercation char reports.autocation, however, does not want to read into it too far. That was fromDavid Center sentner is someone that you guys need to remember that someonewho will be talking about Ithe the sheriff of Madotte County at the time?So he wasn't, the headsheriff sheriff was Miller. He was in charge of the investigation.He is now um the chief of police of Hinkley, but atthe time he was Um just e captain who was in charge of the investigation yeah. They would not report where the bloodwas found in the car, and they still I mean I don't if Irecall right. If we get to the end here, they never reported where the blood wasfound in the car, they wouldn't say make such invits in the fronzee or thetrunk. It makes a huge T. do yo kind of dog, absolutely doesbrian Makaron had ameeting schedule with the resin at the office. That morning mackron's office was found in disarrayand the sheriff believes there may have been an altercation wel if it wasransecte. I think that's a fair assessment right if they have toreplace the ceiling o paint the ceiling anywhere yeah boith the ceiling the dayafter. Why why Athese shows the assaiblant paited the ceiling? I meanthat's what it sounds like that there was blood oon, the twenty sixth day afterChristmas. That's when Darrn mackren, that's the brother of Brien,interviewed by dateline and said somebody knows something so already.You can see that the family's starting to to kind of wonder about this he's ayounger brother and he said Th. There is this gut feeling that we havesomething that we have, that something is wrong,is what he's speaking for the family o something had to have happened. It'snot him as far as UM. You know that that Brians, you know,didn't just run off. There's this h idea early on that Brian just all of asudden, decided to up and leave and go to California and assume a new lifebut.That would only make sense if you didn't find a trail of blood and anoffice destroried before somebody wou do that plus. You would also see lotsof other things. Like money being moved around right, personal items gone taken.That would make a lot more R. I guess what I'm saying S, I'm not trying to beLabor a point, but makes no sense for the investigators to even go town nthat Avenue, with the evidence that they had. You know if you found blood enough,that you need to paint walls ceiling, replace carpet, spend eight thousanddollars. Why would there be a rumor going around that he left and with no car no wallet, no cellphone...

...makes no sense, but it was out there and it actuallyreally derailed misss mackrin, which I thinking as a fine lader in an interview so on the seventh. I guess that bethere doing was the last quote from Dermaan m. There is this gut feeling that wehave that something is wrong. I'll just say I'm putting my faith in the FBI. That's ten days after Frian Os bissing and that'ss kind of already a strongstatement to say, had tdismissing the Lopol T, e Police Department orInvestigation Deam Ist ten days later right. Early on you know, I mean you'restill dealing with the idea that your brother's gone and that your husband's,not that your dad's gone and they're already saying what theteck's going onwith this investigation and they had no faith early on n in the and the wholething as far as whos there, who is collecting evidence- and you know howmuch evidence are they collecting and what are they looking into Evidinc at the head? If they thoughtthe guy ran off, then I would probably lose all respect for that investigationright, Awaytoo. Well, we don't know that the police, an tat wat we gottothink about who Brian was. We just go fgo right up to the top. You know hewas a freshman football coach. He reined for. U S TASTY! He wanted me onthe school board. I mean if anybody put their time and effort into thecommunity, it's this guadget. Why would you ko the community you're workingyour bott off for totally and not to mention some of his projectsthat he was involved in as a trustee as far as working really hard to get a newfire station bill? And I know you'll get into it in a minute here but, likeyou said he was very invested in his community R. I mean I, I think mostpeople would say it being a township trustee is not necessarily like a a bigbadge of honor, but really like a a labor of love. Yes, you get paid, notmuch money and you get a lot of headaches. You know it's a tough job,no doubt an you know. I have a lot of respect for the trusties. Where I livem you know, like I said they gotta. They gotto put up with a lot and theydon't get a lot in return. T it. It is for the bettermen of the community thatI think most trustees are are out there for absolutely not much happened in January other thanthis vigil Rian still gone, we go to February and that's when crime stoppersgets Inv evolved on the tenth of February, they put out a five thousanddollar reward, still nothing happened, and then on the twenty first was thebig day of February on February twenty first two thousandand seventeen that was the big day, a gruesome findin the water, leaving us with more questions than answers tonight. Akayaker on Chipiua Lake discovers a man's body and it's close to where amissing township trusteve car was found. Brian maccro has op en San sinceDecember fifteen. I thought that was the only thing I thought was kind ofinteresting. was I mean this Kayaker was got an interview out there, but h yactually opened the iglids and thought he was a Manikan at first, but he saidthat he felt that God brought him to that place to find Brian Rot, Elas Omin Righe, they moun their car, but they neverfound the body Ando. My goodness could this be the missing man. BRINGWEBBER istalking about missing, mafiotte down to...

...truste Brian Mackron last seen morethan two months ago, but at first siht Webber didn't know what he abound. Titlooked like a dowl sed or maybe Amanican, but a closer look, but more to cold tonine one. One bitlaman been in a water quite a while it would be scary to find body in thereeven Belikhe Saidli. You know obviously good that the body was found o e forAnany experience. I commet SOS she tosh eall up right.You know what I think's interesting is okay, so we've had this blood in thisoffice, which we would imagine that they took for testing well,conveniently two days later after they find Brian. That's when the prosecutorforced Thomson States that there's only one source also on the twenty. Third, that's thefirst time that you hear the other two truste. So there's three trustees inHafit Township, my Costello we found earlier was West Brian. U At the movie,then Brian went home and then whent got up, went to the township and thenwas was missing and en there's Linda bowers. U, as the other township trusty,ther's kind of a big deal. Rigt Yeah Linda, has done a lot Um seeshe's she seems like I've never metLinda. I've never talked to lend up. We reached out for comment EO. We did wereached out to Londa and Mike U and I have an email that I have to pull upand II'll read of, but they declined I'm ultimately to interview, but yeah,Linda Um. You know, if there's it seems likeshe's Mone of those people, that if there's something that needs someone tovolunteer, she seems like she's kind of that person. That's Bein a volunteer. Take oover that big sit. She might so. She she put out a statement. Sayn,I'm sorry Shedidn't. They put out a statement to the township in it says a man who neeply loved his family andhis God. Brian was so proud to reprodect the residence of Labaan, aclose Ned towncho that especially enjoyed spoanous wit and ritingwillingness to help. Others, Brian was never afraid to roll up the sleeve anddo whatever adt be done. We would cherish the memory of friant's favoriteencouragement, make itthat wastheir their statement. For my understanding,the two trustees really m supposedly have talked to law enforcement, butother than that have been very close lipped about this whole case and therethere will be a lot of uh different conversations to follow. Regarding concerns that thatsome of the people we interview about Linda bowers and Mite custevel, okay. So at this point we have the body.So I'm assuming that you know the medical examiner looks at the body.What are t, what are the authorities saying, is the cause of death for Ri.What do we know? Six stabmoons? They noted it to be the shoulder the neckand the forearms. There was a deep wound on the left side of his neck.However, they said it did not hit any vital veins. One Stab won on the left of the neckwas liste as superficial. They report nothing was in his airway and that h they do not know how long he was in thewater. So did they ever say anything aboutwounds, looking like defensive looms or anything like that Um to my knowledge,not in that article. So, but at this point in April of twoenty seventeen, weknow it's six stabaloons and the...

...shoulders net and forarm so not yeah onone location and then Foundin the water, but no water. As long so notdrowning a forearms sound like that's, probablydefensive. Well or if you are guing suicide, it could be suicide, but UNEforon doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do your shoulders, your neck andyour farms for suicide, and you can't commit suicide by drawning.If there's no water in your lonthe people want to know, you know, I e a Iwork, you know in Aroundwaaa County I've talked to a fair amount of noteverybody, but I've talked to anybody. I come in contact with down chipwalikearea. You know it's a conversation start it's better than asking ow theweather. Is You know I just come out and say what do you think happend toBryan, I dont to say his last name. You know that's totally true. Um, REMEMBERDRN! You and I went to the village in which is a bar in Shipwa Lake in it,basically it's almost right next to where they found Brian mackris car. Wewent in there and we started talking to some of the patrons some people thathave been part of the community for years, how they feel about the case andwhat they think so. Sambody e Wer in SIP right now atthe Village Inn an jusasking, some people, their impressions on the mackretaste. Do you believe that Markran committed suicide, or do you think thathe was murdered? I think he was murdered, so you don't buy the suicide at all. Do you think Aysas, by with the weightof the investigations gone? Do you think of the blaeriing openbouted noad S, Pero o Mor Hersei, Dr? I he actuaal Roundthis oint. They couldbe good to talk about the theories of what w WHA. What would have happened?What could have happened? What's the ppousible things that we need to thinkabout and consider ye? Okay, let's do that, but before we get into talkingabout motives and everything, I think that we should play this. Clip it isfrom the sheriff's Department Wheth, they held. U Press Conference andher're Goinna hear David Satiner, who is a captain with the deputies, and hewas also the head of Brian Markrin's investigation and he's Gongta betalking about some of their findings and just listen, because it sounds likethey're trying to build the case that Brian Makron acted alone and that thiswas a suicide, even though the evidence that they have and that we have, itseems, kind o hard to get our heads around this being a suicide. Butnevertheless, that seems to be the route that the sheriff's apartment istrying to take just take a listen. The purpose of this press conference isto provide an Updat the investigations, the death of Brian Mackron, based onall the information that we have to date. As you know, the Mdina County Sheriff'sOffice was notified of Mister Makorn's disappearance at approximately seventhree am on December. sixteent depnies were immediately dispatched to thetownship administration building in the Makron home, and at this time aninvestigation was opened and initiated with an hour and ten minutes. Mistermackrer's vehicle was located. Beonstar detection parked in the beachsideparking lot next to Chipwa Lake. It's...

...important to not leading up to Mistermackrorn's death that MSTER mackre himself had incurred a large conserablelarge amount of financial debt, along with other personal behaviors. He wasengaged in ere unknown to his family and friends that we will not go intodetail at this time. Video surveillance from Aria businessesand residences showed bironbackers vehicle driving routor the earlymornings of December Sixteenh, which began with his arrival at the townshipadministration. Building at one fifty am his vehicle left Te Township,building an approximately six twenty four am and is its observe, passing aresidence near the lake munislator physical evidues processed by the OhioBurau of criminal investigations from the township administration building,as well as Mister mackrors, recovered vehicle resulted in matching Brianmackeron's D Na DNA and blood found in around the bathroom sink and on theFoscet, matched only Brian mackron, the bloody footprints located in theadministration. Building where consistent with the shoes Brian Markrinwas wearing at the time his body was recovered, no additional blood fromanyone else was obtained it or around the administration building or in oraround his vehicle. As a matter of due diligence and steedor protocol, severalemergency responders and township employees. DNA profiles were obtainedin the case of cross examination or cross contamination of to see, as a corner stated earlier, the cause amanner of death listed on the auttop. He is undetermined upon reviewing theautop report in the physical evidence. Our investigators have determined that,based on all the ovens obtained to date that no other person other than Brianmackron was involved in his death. So in that press conference senter says they have any of himarriving at the trustees office at like one, forty five am or whatever, andthen he leaves again at six something I am so ere's likefour hours of missing, timin there and then drives away, and then he mentionanother camera caupt the car, an which we think might be that tavern andChibole, and then they find the cartle did he. Why was he there? You know just Tha Hougo through you mine, it's suicide D. You go to Quwoud, you be there for fourhours in the hall yeah and there is the reports that he had an early morning.Meeting scheduled with Um wasn't a resident of the township. Maybe there'slots of rumors about it. So I mean it was supposed to be. Wedon't know who that was. We've heard, you know just a resident, we've heardan angry resident, but either way you know you're you're not going to likemagically wake up and say: Oh yeah, that meeting at seven thirty, let's sayGee. I wonder I think I'll get there around two a m. You know so you know tand if it's a resident like, why would you say, Oh yeah, sure, let's just moveyour Tunn ut? The two am that's great. I haven't gone to sleep, yet you know-or maybe I did but I'm awake you know says no one. You know no one's going toget up out of bed go down there for an angry resident right and then, let'ssay than you did and you medify the angry resident, and then they leave andyou're so distrought from this flight that you decide to start to consuicide. As a marine who you know, I don't I'mnot a rain and I don't know what they learn, but I'm sure they learn how tohandle a knife and how to kill someone to the point where it wouldn't take sixwild stamps to figure out how O commince suicide and then getting yourcar and drive to a lak and then disappear for a couple of months beforeyou're found not to mention, go out of your car leave no blood trail whic. Youdid all over your office and in your car, and you know, then all of a suddenmagically disappear to the point where...

...they can't find you. You know I meanI'm. I like t o deerhunt, you know when you shoot at deer, you got theblood thrl, that's what you follow. Typically, if you don't see it dropright away, you know H, there's a trail. It's got to happen footprints, you know I it's not. It shouldn't be hard if theperson's in dire straits there's a lot that doesn't add up o any of this, andI don't have a ton of AOLLG about suicides, but a couple of things thatwe do know just from looking at statistics that men typically usefirearms, I'm pretty sure that Marca was a firearm owner. Two Suicides Don'normally happen in multiple locations, specifically because they're usuallymomentary crisises, that if the person stops the suicideal action for a whileto say get in a car and drive somewhere else, most of the time thats enough tomake the person seek help or it's Goin to stop. I suicide is justdoesn't fit. No, that's a good point. There'sactually interesting interviews with suaside survivors that he jumped offthe Boldan game bridge and still survived, and I remember one the guysaid like as sod as Mih bee left, I'm like Oh, I want to live right and, andI've seen those and they say about eighty eight. It is very high numberthe people that have their suicide interrupted by another person orwhatever they I they don't. You know necessarily wantto commit. Susad again, like you, Sai they're, they're, happy that they lived,I will say real, quick. The only way that I can kind of rent my mind aroundthe SIDEAS, if maybe five of those caus were testingand the one cut in his shoulder was very deep and start of leeding freelyand he realized he wasn't dying, so he gets in his car. Maybe he wanted to goto the ER, maybe hean, then he was confused from the Baloss and EoerJabualic or maybe he wants D to Die. SOMEER SCENIC! That's the only way that would kind ofmake sense to me b, t that seems like a stretch and also both suicides. Don'thappen, t unfamiliar places, but typically at your home I mean wethere's cases in jail where the person has no other choice, which cases youknow. Somebody N A hotel room, but typically psychologist say that youchoose a very familiar and even meaningful place. You canmit servicide.So I guess we have to consider the possibility that Chipua Lake held somesignificant meaning for him. If it was a suicide, I can see the office be in aplace where he would have an opportunity if he went there two in themorning, and that was you know the place that he felt cumderful in andfamiliar with to do it, but again it's hard for me to grasp starting itsomewhere stopping getting inthe car and driving right. No, not at all, and I mean he didn'thave any like previous things. I mean you wouldn't go to a trustes thing andthen go see a movie. You know and socialized you know. Normally Imean, like you know, usually are more withdrawn at that point. You knowokay,so if suicide seems like unlikely prospect,then to pretty much borne some freak like natural explanation for somebody beleeding that much for natural cause,it would have to be foul play right. I mean you know you can't talk to anybody around here.That at least I haven't found somebody that feels at suicide is anythingreasonable here to to look at a I mean, like you know, to come to thatconclusion. What six months after this all happened? You know I there's a lotof of least from my aspect in what I've...

...been doing. You know there's a lot ofinformation here and, like I said earlier, it's like a real life cluegame. I mean there is so many aspects that were going on there, where thingscould have played right to cause this to happen, and you know you can't youjust can't you know throw in the hat this early. So let's talk about some ofthe theories, so the first one other than suicide would be the most in everymurder investigation. The first place they look is always the touse. So whatis the theory about behind how the wife could be the Sowell? I mean obviouslyVictoria from now what we know Um was the last person to seebrigne alive. Soyou know the the probability increases. The closer people are with it Um youknow so so she saw him at two o eight am the morning that he left for the trusty office is what we'rethinking or what's been reported so yeah. So there's some discrepanciesthat that we've found Um. As far as I think, sentiur says aroundone forty five heore one. Thirty am what we've found now, which will getinto more or later I it looks like he was triggered to leave his home at twoOei. Am that sounds like that's from a phone call or tax or something that's areally specific time. Yeah yeah, it's from something notified on his phone that that got him out of bet is wha. We understand now which we will coverin later episodes. So you know for everything that Miss mackin didfrom the moment he disappeared to this day. You know, sometimes, when you fallowthese cases, Thi spouse, it doesn't maybe act what you'd expect them to,and that doesn't always mean that they're guilty, but it definitely mightraise anieral Miss macker. This whole time has done nothing but be right outthere trying to find him. She was out there haning on flyers. They, you know, I think they started at likea ten thousand dollar reward for any information, so she certainly seemed in you know in my opinion, isnot involved. It doesn't seem like someone involved. You know like when I,when I think about back Um. You know when I didn't you know now. I kindofhave like a little bit of a you know, personal kind of feeling on this case,but Um early on when I didn't know who Brian was, I just knew he was missingand I was interested in it because of it being so local and such a mystery m.You know I first thought like maybe the wife like it might have been VictoriaUm. You know she would sh en, like the last one to see him, and you know whatkind of life insurance is out there Wys, what kind of marriage did they have it's? Why they're always the firstpoocy look and the other part is is like when you look at the articles. Youknow she really didn't have a voice for the first four or five months, so she'snot doesn't seem to be talking Um at least into the media, so she she's beenkind of silent through this. So you know you Kinda, you kindof start towonder you just you just don't know 'em you know, and so you kindof start t tokind of question. So personally, I I kind of questioned early on that. Iwonder if his wife did it bt think about this 'cause UH. We know thatBrian was kind of a bigger gud right e was over six foot tall over two hundredpounds and his wife Um. You know, there's a pockes wo, O photos oranything, but she is not a very big woman. So just from the logistics ofbeing able to overpower him stab him...

...and then move his body by herself todump in a lake doesn't seem like it would be very likely that she could dothat on er own, for one two would be her. Opportunities are endless if shewas going to kill Hem and her options would be endless too. I mean likepoison would have been something that she could have done anything. Thiswould be a harder mor way to do it. I guess IG I mean he traveled soonjewelry. If she was going to hire hitman like quait till he's going toOmaa or something right, and I mean I think, Ta Kindof counter that Rickie, Ithink, to also think about. If we're getting off of the idea of suicide,then I think we're on a two person job at least so. There's got it 'cause. Youcan't drive that car and then, unless you're, just going to like Ike itsomewhere. After so, let's say if they kill Obrian, they got his car there. Someone has topick hem up orget them away, so I mean you're really dealing with at least atwo person operation. So you know t that does kind of defeat mean. Yes, Ithink, if you know we were back in December fifteenth of sixteen and wewere going to have a fight and put bets on it. I don't think anybody's going toput a bet on Victoria, beating Brian, on with with really anything he he'sgoing to be Abe. T he's going to be a sharper shooter he's going t now how tohandle a knife he's just overall larger, stronger than Victoriousso agree with that, butI think we got a factor in a two person job here. What it looks like is themurderer, put him in his own vehicle right in Brian's vehicle or you have togo with the suicide Adbrian drove himself there. But if it's a murder,that's a good point that it would be a two person job which. Why is why I wishwe knew where in the car the blood was located m. So if it wasn't t e wife, then thenext place to look if you're going out through the circles was obviously thishappened at the township, so cause the trustees be involved or the people inth that you would be meeting with. You know an working with at the townshipbuilding right. So we know that that Mi Castello saw him. He would to the moviewith him. We don't know who alse went to the movie with him, but e do know Mike was there so, and he was, I believe, also at thewinking lizard with Brian, so they spent majority of the nighttogether. Wut, we don't know, we don't know the relationship between Mike andBrian. We we don't know, I mean. Obviously hewasn't the last person to see him M. could he have been somebody to getBrian Down to that office at two? Oh eight in the morning, possibly you knowthey. They shared a mutual interest down there. Why would they need to bedown there in the middle of the night? Doesn't make a ton of sense? You know,but so trustees, you know. Possibly they also have not talked theyre netherthan they do say that they made a statement to law enforcement. But asfar as like anything that you know we, the people can decide and way in on. We really don't havemuch on them. We we do have a little bit, which well give you guys later onUm. If you've done the digging you youmight Bo to find some of it. I do have you know one statement that that Iguess no one else really has 'cause. It was through email but know why you cometo us because we have the sources that nobody else we do have information and we're nothere to you know, hold it from you guys we're here to dig of it as directly and honestly as we can we're not here to be biased,Wal, not here, to make enemies of anybody here. I I can um. I can readthe statement from then devours. So here's her statement out of respect forBrian's family and the ongoing BCI investigation Mike Castello- and I havenever interviewed about the case...

...publicly. Our only comments, even atthe onset of his disappearance and recovery, have been limited to what wefelt necessary to assure the public we serve of their safety. Unfortunately,even that upset Briane's life tremendously, as we have many requestsfor public interview, we respectfully decline, urswow she's, shooting down the widow. I did not really give. I just you knowsaid. Thank you so much for your time. I believe, as as a response you know it is interesting. It is a dicysituation as far as Um, you know, th the relationship between them and I Idon't know all the relationship or anything. I don't claim to to know it,but you know when I read that I thoughtokay, but you know I've interviewed Victoria for four and a half hours and she laid it all on the line and shewants her voice to be heard. So I I don't we're not doing anythingthat the family doesn't want. They want this. They want this out Um, so ias nereason back for the family line is bullshit right. I think eltical speak o.We don't want to talk. I think she doesn't want to talk, whichyou know we're not here to make anybody talk, but we Wanta the people want toknow. You know: We've been waiting for three and a half years for informationon this. It's it's a local guy who did good to our community. We deserve answers. I will just say toplay devil's advocate. They may have lawyers that wrote them that up forthem and said this is what you say. Anyone aous sounds like lawyer. TalkYeah it it doesn't a well if there's any interesting fatland of ours,husband is a lawyer Noso there, you have it but H um. So so we got the trustes. We've got thethe complex of the trustees, there's also another player in there to consider, and that would be themaintenance ma, but that found him as well ewetalking about this. I guess I'mwondering you know why. Whul the trusces even have a motive to killtheir coworker. whoeveryone seemed like they liked. Well, there was a lot of things goingon in the township in O thosand and sixteen we, the township, had a fireLevy and it had the nexest pipeone going through it, which are both veryinteresting things, inconveniently on the same property, Um and they're, bothkind of contentious too. Oh Gosh, you mean, if anybody woefully rememberedall the signs of how everybody hates Neus. You know no one like Mexus andmel.I shouldn't say that most people didn't like Mexis in Madina County, maybesomebody who benefited off of like a pumping station or something like thatplaced on your land. Where you're, you know you got a large sum of money, thenmaybe you would like that, but I think everybody else the got their yards dugup their trees removed, M and then also we're now in, like a fall out zone ofif the Moro to catch fire, so we're talking about is a gas pipe liratpressurize natural gas that was going to go from these oil fields, thateastern Pennsylvania and deliver the gas all the way up into Canada. I think,and a lot of places where I went through they used eminent domain andtook people's property away from them in a Madina County. It was a big dealbecause the county judge even had to do like an injunction and give peoplerestraining orders from their own property to allow the surveyors forthis pipline to go through and decide. You know, what's going to happen toyour property, so people were superoffended and then this perstrizednatural gas Dania has a blaster use within like two or three miles so thatif it ever did go up, I mean like Tonsmi. All of us basically are in thisKillzon, and so, if you're, just the average Joethat just as the pipeling on through no special pumping station did they giveyou any money or what or they just...

...ruined your landscape. I don't know ifthey gave you any money, they maybe a little bit, but it's going to kill yourpoperty value. So it's an offset the only people that got winfalls of thepeople that have pumping stations and stuff like that on our actual property,yeah above ground structures. I think mostly got money but yeah. I 'T. I don't know about thepeople that you know just went underground. I I didn't hear ofanything, but I'm not. I did actually reach out to a Nexis, a negative neusgroup and but I I never did hear back from them, but that is definitelysomething that gets emotions high attentions high with you know:corporations coming from o out of state out of town and taking yeur propertyand the government helping them Oel. He already lost because it was at thestame Lel anafederal level. It was a donedeal they even and they do this atFrankun too. They change the laws like overrule home, bordidences that changepeople's now city zoning codes and stuff, like that, like you, reallydon't, have any power that he decided that it's coming through in his comingthrough yeah. From my understanding, there is alittle bit of poll early on so I mean there's always a question and if youwatch like- and I kindof looked at the next as pipeline and see now it youknow, you'd think it be. You know, what's the you know shortest sitancebetween two points of the straight line: Right, look at the nextes pipe in yeahit it's got somewhat, but there are so many different waves and differentthings that it Kinda those hearlings around. I mean it could have easilygone a little bit farther south and could have been a straight shop, but noit kind of curves up through and spends a lot o. You know a fair amount ofdistance inside Lafyette, township m. You know so it's kind of interestinghow like it's so close to Medina but uh. You know it does seem like there. Thereis some adven. You know advantages like, forinstance, clover leaf. The pumping station was put in cloverlyf schooldistrict, so there in the process of actually getting an influx of moneytowards this school because it increased that property value. U So like a l e like clover leaf scuoldistrict benefited from the pipeland. We don't know how much yet there therewas a large amount and then like of course, like you know. Next US went inand promised all this large som of money and then all of a sudden, they'reretracting it now and trying to get less. So it's it's a dispute currently,but you know there is benefits to the pipeline, butit benefits us very small few and hurts a whole lot of people. MHM got to say that without any further kind of details orleads on, that is unbelievable scenario, but just aslikely as any of 'em, you know there's nothing especially tying this to theythat's. The tough part yeah, it's very hard to find that stuff, because youknow I mean you just we don't have access to that kind of stuff, but wegot the pipeblind coming through. Interestingly, there's a fire Levy andpart of the P, the property which I found was very interesting, was M,managed by a company called INOFA or Madina Port Authority. They and it'scalled Innovation Park. Innovation Park is where locals would localis noinnovation park, but I it's where the university backrond building is it's overall vacant, although they areworking on a company coming in now, but, interestingly enough Um, the township was going to inherit theproperty where the fire station was going to get put on Orsnan Har, but be given it by n byModona Port Authority. In exchange for changing the zoning laws of InnovationPark to allow companies commit 'cause, it's basically set dormant Um.

Since I doesn'n three, I believe it was, I think, originally started right. So basically they right now.It's zoned like it's light like superlightindustrial, an kind of residential right, 'cause, it's near homes, andthey want to zone it to allow a little bit more of a manufacturing base. Idon't even know if it was light industrial. It was like they wanted aTEC company to come in emind you. They had CRAPD Internet there, but theywanted a TEC company to come in basically and and be there so it wasjust like it would be like this office building, basically, and they weretrying to owr Ou yeah, not necessarily in like a premo spot Um, you know andthey were trying to like get the they gave land a this university of Acron toput a building in which they did is like a satellite campus or somethingyeah. I don't know, what's really run out of there, but their idea was thatthey were having education with technology, but they didn't havetechnology now, Madina Port Authority is, is upping their game for it andthey're running high speed Internet Um. To that location which, but they, butyou know they're sitting on this land trying to develop it and they can'tbecause of the zoning, so they worked with the trustees at that point nowthey didn't have that set in stone at the time that Brian went missing, butthat was in the month. I believe they were working on the zoning changing thezoning regulation, so you couldn imagine the different deals that I meanarent like we're. Not Seeing you know, you know, you've got Um builders,you've got people that want to bring business in there from the Madina PortAuthority. There's there's some very wealthy people that are on the boardthere Um that could have had a lot of big money interest into Lafeette Tangaat that point and Brian could have been a snag in that spot. N. We don't knowthis is all speculation yealots of money floats around in those thosedeals, if you ever set in on any kind of town meetings, when developers comeand try to not have to pay taxes for fifty years,if they develop there or whatever, you know, there's always tons of money.Being talked about so definitely whenever there's money there could beissues the motive right, yeah right. So it's the same property that next uswent straight through the pipe. So that's the other part is is like you'retrying to get this fire leve approved on property that you don't even knowwhere you're goingn go to put that build in, because you don't know wherenexes is going through and you're asking these people. I believe the thefire station was like four point: six million dollar building, that's a heftybill to be you know, handled by those residents. You know, there's not a lotof the Thre'i. Well, there's very little industry in lafiette township. You know so it's mostly shouldered bythe residents for a fire station when they alreadyhave fire so um. You know there was Andbrien was for the Fire Levy, so anger resident, who? What was hecoming? If it was an angry residen? We knew there was a residant. Some peoplesaid it was angry yea. This is the other theory right. An angry residentcould have killed him. Yeah we've got n information saying resident and we'vegot information, saying angry residente, so um you know t there's somediscrepancies and Soour. Our goal is to be a straightforward with the listenerson this case, as we possibly can so rick we're putting together, ohWTHERE's, a website out there right that they can go check it out. Yeah. Ifyou go to invisible ship's, pogcast com, we have show notes and so we're makingone now where it's just going to be comd of the depository of all ourfrimacron investigation, stuff that w that dare and mostly is uncovered, buteverything w from the news articles that you're reference Eein Tha, yourtimeline thingsso, if you're curious,...

...definitely go to evismal ships, bodcastcom and checked that out. Yes, wwe're we're trying to be a straightforward.You you, the listener, read: Listen To this! Listen to the interviews and th.You decide where, where the flaws are, where things seem to be investigated.Further Bargol, like I said it's to promoteawareitis for this, and hopefully you know if we get enoughpeople which I believe we do interested in this, it's going to pushthat investigation further. We all want answers t's going to do it, for this episodejoin this next time as we sit down and talk to Victoria Margrin, an herinvestigator and what is going to be a fascinating interview also want to makesure that you don't miss any of our upcoming pucyes. You can find us onItunes stitchor spot ofby, wherever you get your fogcast. We also. I have a Webpage that we mentioned earlier, that invisible ship's pogast com and you caneven find this inwiter. Our Hashed teg is ad chips, invisible we'd like tohear from you and if you enjoy this episode, please rate us on itunes thatjust helps get the word out helps people find the show. Also- and this isprobably the most important thing- I'm going to say- The family mackron'sfamily is still looking for answers about what happened to him. So if youknow anything, you have any CIPS or leads contact crime. Stoppers or theModina County, sheriffs of Marment, and thanks again for listening, we'll seeyou next time.

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